Listening to Thebes's scott 299, sweet!!!

[NOSValves]

It means your CD player is not a great mate to the Scott 299 nothing more nothing less. There are fairly easy ways to make this all work but not in one or two days.

What is happening is your CD player is handing a signal to the Scott that it is not designed to handle. In most cases the Scott works fine with most CD players. Your just doesn't happen to be one of them. Back in the 60's not many high level sources like Tape decks and Tuners had a 2V or above nominal output like most CD players and high level sources today. Your CD player most likely exceeds the 2 Volt specification. Most CD players don't seem to reach this specification and they work just fine with the Scott. The earlier Scott's like the 299A are real pesky about this but the later models seem to handle it much better. In fact with the 299C and above I almost never used loudness circuit because it just sounds better without. The 299A I almost always used it but my CD player doesn't make the amp loud at the 2 position.

I think your confusing what the loudness switch does its designed to make the amp sound more natural at the lower listening levels that you SHOULD be at when the volume control is at the 2 position. In your case your pretty loud by 2 on the control which messes up the effect of the loudness circuit.

I'm pretty surprised you hear no different in LP's. I mean you may like CD better or LP better but again your reporting back its about the same.

So to answer your question as your system stand now no the 299A is not going to be a great match. The 233 would most likely slide right in and work well. This will not mean the 233 sounds way better then the 299 it will mean that it mates and plays better in your particular system then the 299A.

Craig

[fini]

Here's a page on the RCD-1072. It only says the analog output is "high."

[NOSValves]

Fini,

That is kind of strange. They state that the analog outputs are high current in the basic description. They list the output of the digital outs under the specifications but under analog outs they give you no listing. Darn system mating it sure can be a headache.

Craig

[fini]

I'd bet they'd like you to mate it with a Rotel pre and amp...[]

[garymd]

Hmmm. So, what am i suppose to do? Does that mean a scott isn't a good match for me? I leave the loudness off at all times. I dont understand why it matters that it's at 2. I mean is the cd player suppose to be low output level, then volume increased on scott to sound better?

It boils down to this:

The loudness switch is designed to work effectively at certain volume levels. Since those levels don't seem to be in alignment for whatever reason (gain on your CD player/TT?, room size?, speaker efficiency?), you're not getting the best out of the Scott. The Scott's loudness switch functions differently than most receiver's. It doesn't just boost the bass. It boosts the EQ from top to bottom (treble through bass). I use mine ALL the time. Once you hit a certain point on the volume knob, the effect of the loudness switch fades away and by the time you hit close to the 12:00 position, it's gone completely, whether or not you have it on.

I think it's probably a combination of your speakers and room size. I use my 299b with Cornwalls in a 13x24 room, speakers on the long wall. It sounds fantastic. If you are planning to keep the speakers you have in the room you're using, you just might be better off with a different amp altogether. There are other small tube integrated's that might work better in your situation although I've never heard one in the same price range that actually does. I had a nice little Fisher once that sounded really good but the Scott seemed to do just about everything better. Also, the Fisher's loudness switch only controlled the bass (which might be fine in your case). You might also consider a Pilot. I've never heard one but lots of folks around here used to rave about them.

It's great you had the opportunity to give one a try and before handing it back over, you should try it in a bigger room or with different speakers (if you have any) just to see if it makes a difference. I didn't read this entire thread so if you already tried that, I apologize.

Good luck!

[NOSValves]

I'd bet they'd like you to mate it with a Rotel pre and amp...[]

Funny.... most modern SS preamps and even some modern tube pre's aren't nearly as effected by the higher output. The vintage stuff is reknown for poor sound quality at the lowest levels of the controls. The Scott loudness circuit works real well in fact the best I have heard in vintage tube gear but only if your not hitting high levels in the first 30 to 40% of its travel from zero.

Craig

[homemadeheresy]

I wonder if the Cd player has a headphone out. Could he grab a few a converter to go from a phone jack to rca? Also if this was feasible he could adjust the volume ouput with the loudness control from the headphones. Just an idea[]

[NOSValves]

Actually that is not a bad idea at all! Much depends on the quality of the headphone output section though. But it sure is worth a try. The proper part to do this can be purchased from Radio Shack.

Craig

[33klfan]

Thanks guys for all of this great info. First it doesn't have a headphone jack, so you couldn't do that.

Now from what i understand from all of this is that I'm not getting the full audio potential because it plays loud at low levels. Also, from what i gather is that it's recommended to always use the loudness? Can't it sound ok without using loudness? I'm serious at 2-3, it sounded fine. Now this even puts me in more of a pickle for buying that 233. I didn't think there was anything wrong with how i had the volume. I just thought it was good it played loud when it's not turned up much. I was like this is a powerful little amp. I wanted to get the 233. I thought the 299 sounded fine, but according to you guys, it's not a good setup. I can wait and get something else, but i thought the scott's were one of the best for the price. What would i have to get to match well and not cost outrageous amount but sounds close to scott? I have to decide soon on the 233 if i should get it or not.

[NOSValves]

No your reading just a bit to much into things. You are not required to use the loudness to get good sound out of the amp. But in some cases it does help in other it doesn't. Much is up to the ear of the beholder! But when your reaching your normal levels at 2 on the face plate that was a warning sign for me that the CD player has too much output for the Scott 299. It is not that the Scott 299 is not for you. It's that your CD players output level is holding it back from really expressing it abilities to the fullest. This can be easily fixed but not in two days. Simple in line attentuators of maybe 3 or 6db would do wonders. These can be purchased from Parts Express. But your not going to have time to give that a whirl this go around.

Craig

[33klfan]

Ok, let me say this and probably should have before. At volume 2, it's not crazy loud where you can't hear yourself talk. I just found it satisfying at this volume. If i wanted it loud to blow me out of my room, 4 to 5 would prolly do it. That would be half power of the amp which in turn is turned up pretty loud. Yeah i gave the amp back to Thebes today. Is it because i don't have the volume up a lot the reason for it not showing it's full potential. What i thought was good is thinking it sounded fine at 2.

So this shouldn't turn me away from the 233 then? Or should i just wait. I know that's my choice, but just wondering. How do put those attenuators in.

So in turn is this doing the same thing with my pioneer sx-980, with the cd volume and all?

[NOSValves]

I don't think the SX-980 will have any issue with your CD player and yes I have experience with a few of the SX line of Pioneer receivers in fact I own a SX780 and SX1080 but they have sat unused for about 4 years now. The volume controls and such really leaped forward in quality and user friendliness in the W's.

No this should not turn you away from the 233 it has a completely different ramp up on the volume control then a 299. Hey you know its nearly impossible for me or anyone to guess what you feel is loud. But I'm telling you that no matter how loud it is the 299 will not going sound its best that low on the control. That is a fact that I ran into with the 299 amps. Some CD player just have to much signal for that particular amp. You know you have to realize that the 299 was produced in 1958 much has changed in the source world since then. The 233 will probably mate with your existing gear better. But realize there are no absolutes only your ears can tell you what you like.

Craig

[jcmusic]

33klfan if your problem is all about the volume control on the 299 with your other source gear, you could roll the tubes to a lesser gain tube. Maybe that would create a better match for you. I did that myself just to have more control over the volume knob.

Jay

[arfz28]

33klfan, I usually run my scott 299a with the loudness switch off. I have the bass control turned up a bit and the treble control turned down a tad bit, I like the sound best this way when listening too cds. When I use my turntable I set the bass just a tad bit up and the treble control set at the flat position. Now here is what I like about my cd player, it is an older model Shure Ultra D-6000 that has a variable output that is controled by a remote. I usually set my scott 299a volume control at 5 (the midway piont) and then use the cd players remote to turn the music up and down, works great. Now if I get in the mood too use the loudness control on the scott 299a I turn back the volume too about 4 on the scott and then use the remote on the shure cd player to turn the volume up too a level I want. I just like the handyness of that cd remote, no more getting up from my chair to adjust the volume on the scott, Its as handy as a tv remote.

[NOSValves]

Now that is some great creative thinking!!

[thebes]

David, glad you had fun trying out the Scott.

Now Craig is first class at diagnosis besides being an
incredible "wrench monkey". I would have never picked up the the
reason for the cdp mismatch.By the way the Scott has worked just fine
with 3 different players I've thorwn at it. I wish you still had
it in your house because I would have suggested trying it with the
family's dvd player. The Rotel's you own is higly regarded but
getting on in age comapred to modern players and modern DACS.. If
you go with the 333 or whatever it is and it does not mate well with
your Rotel they sell just fine on Ebay and a decent (over $100) quality
dvd player will do the chores.



You are in small room right now but you'll be heading out after you
finish school and chances are you'll end up with a bigger room to play
your stereo in. A dvd player gives you a two-for-one for
portability, and I'm sure your parents would let you try out your
various configurations in larger rooms of the house to see how they
sound. Wish it was otherwise, but stereo systems with decent
speakers seldom sound their best in small bedrooms.

Judging from
your other comments in this and the other thread, I think it's time to
roll the dice, take the plunge, buy the gizmo etc. and adjust as your
listening tastes, budget and location dictate. If it doesn't work
out with the Scott it will be setback and a disapointment, but also a
learning experience. Money-wise you can sell if for what you paid for
it.

So far I think you've done everything right. You thought
about the sound and have been very carefully considering your
purchases. It's a very level headed approach. You may not realize
it yet, but internally you've probably already reached a
decision. Go with it and don't look back.

I'm sure you've already noticed there are plenty of people here
with the time and the talents to help you along the way. There is
a certain amount of anxiety invovled when money is tight and and
priorites and direction is unsure. This type of situation will
only arise about 30 or 40,000 times in your life so consider this
practice.

[NOSValves]

Thebes,

great post from a awesome guy! It was very generous of you to let David give the 299 spin. It sounds like even if it wasn't optimal it gave him a nice taste which is the important part any way.

Craig

[3dzapper]

I wonder if the guy I lent my 299B to is done listening to it yet?[:@][:@][:@]

[NOSValves]

Rick,

That really is a darn shame. I kind of know how you feel I have an amp (not worth as much as your 299B) out on loan for like 3 years or so. I have not seen heads or tales on the young man I loaned it to since he headed off to college a couple years ago. Have you ever contacted the person in question and demanded it back?

Craig

[33klfan]

Ok, so the scott has better audio qualties at a higher volume. I understand that. In theory, a cd player with low level input with the scott at higher volume is better than cd at high level input with scott at low volume output because the scott has better quality or audio output when it's played louder? So even though it sounds loud at 2, other than just being louder at 4, it's playing the music better? I know when volume is increased in turn means better sound, but i always thought a good amp could play well at low volumes which it does. I don't know, maybe 2 for some here might be nothing but it prolly doesn't take much to fill my room. It's pretty much square with 8' ceiling. I didn't even think of putting the scott, my speakers, and rotel/dvd player in the living room. That's a lot more open floor plan. I know my room isn't the most suitable which someday it will be whenever i move.

Here's the thing. If i would have done what i'm doing now with research, i probably wouldn't have bought the rotel even though it's highly praised by many. It's probably better for a real high end system, which i someday may have, but it's kind of overkill right now. I would probably lose too much money if i sold it. I guess that's a possibility. It would probably pay for the amp. I have an extra dvd player. I got the cd player because that's the first link in a chain where the material is getting transferred and if that doesn't get picked up by the cd player then no matter what amp or speakers will be able to produce it. I don't know if that's hype or fact. It makes sense to me.

I would like to save my money. It's nice to have extra money, but i feel like buying that 233 to, because when i put the sx-980 back in today, boy did i notice a difference. It was in my face something terrible and kind of fatiguing.