Coytee Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I too would like to hear a comaprison of other tube amps with my MC240 C'mon over to Knoxville and you can hear the MC-2102 and the Jubes!! Just be prepared to go home & explain to the wife why the Khorns gotta go [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackpod Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I too would like to hear a comaprison of other tube amps with my MC240 C'mon over to Knoxville and you can hear the MC-2102 and the Jubes!! Just be prepared to go home & explain to the wife why the Khorns gotta go [] LOL! Trust me the Khorns would stay. I would be the one to go! In her eyes it would be cheaper [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 OldBuckster When I bought the Mac gear, I figured I was done. I just couldn't get the overall sound I was used to with the SET amps. Again, I"m not trying to start any wars either..just what I heard. The MC275 had power all over the SETs, no doubt..and they weren't "bad" in any way shape or form.So I took it out of the system, and tried the C2200 with just the SETs. I listened for quite some time, but felt like there was a "veil" over the music. That's when I inserted the Adcom SS pre back in, and it cleaned everything right up! Of course now I'm running the George Wright tube pre..but I've learned not to get rid of anything. (anymore) You never know when you might want to switch back. Finding a preamp has been my biggest challenge. I'm pretty happy with the amps. I must say I miss the days of my Harmon Kardon 730, 4 Heresys and a turntable. I never even thought about "upgrading"..I was always happy with the sound! Darned technology anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I made the upgrades like you were thinking about. Put in new crossovers. Then went with the McIntosh 2275, an integrated, basically a 275 with tubed preamp 2200. They do sound much better. I think I have finally reached the proverbial audio nirvana. Took some changes. Took quite a bit o cashola, but they sound great! Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Paul----So how's ole Waco Johnny Dean doin'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 TBrennan, Not sure who that is. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Wow, I sure appreciate everyone's great advice. I didn't expect so much help. My listening room is 20 ft. by 24 ft. with a 9.5 ceiling. There are corners where the speakers are, but both speakers have a large glass window with wood shutters as one of the corners, so I can't really seal them. Maybe I sounded too critical about my Khorn sound, as it is pretty good, just not quite as good as what I have heard from other Khorn systems I've listen to before. The bass probably isn't distorted, so much as it sometimes seems to take over the music and become the loudest and most obvious aspect of the sound. I prefer the bass to be more supportive and harmonious and let the vocals and sparkling highs dominate...without sounding harsh. I don't talk the talk yet, so I'm probably still misrepresenting things. I'm pretty sure I'm going with the McIntosh stuff. I'm sure there are some emotional issues involved with my decision. Basically, now that I can afford them, I really want to get them. I'm mostly wondering if there are other Mac/Khorn users that can either support my choices or let me know why I should consider different Macs. Also, I'm interested in other's experiences with their CD players. It seems like the Khorns are so revealing, it is very important to find the right CD player. I will definitely call Klipsh and see about their upgrade kit for the Klipschorns! Thanks! Kia, I hope that the purchase of new McIntosh tube equipment is all that you want it to be. I cannot really give you an honest evaluation of the newer McIntosh tube equip since most of my experience is with the older models - and even then I've kind of leaned towards the Marantz side..... The Klipschorn "upgrade kit" was also suggested. This is the AK4 upgrade, which gives you new midrange drivers, new tweeters, and new crossovers for $1800. If you are seriously considering that upgrade, much like the Mac equipment, see if you can listen to a pair of new AK4 Klipschorns first and see if you love the sound. I only encourage auditioning the upgrade if possible because there are members in here who love the sound of the latest AK4 upgrade and others in here who went the AK4 route (or AL4) and then later went a different direction. So, like most things audio-wise, its subjective - to one's own ears. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kialucky Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Thank you Steve for your honest opinion! I do plan on listening to them prior to making the purchase, but they don't have Khorns, so I'll have to listen to them with different speakers...which may not be really a good audition. Maybe I should load my Khorns into my pickup, drive the 350 miles to the Mac store and have them hook them all up for me! Of course, then the room won't be the same. Good sound is complicated. Maybe I should just try not to be so picky. What exactly was it that you didn't like about the MAC 275 and the C2200 sound? I don't listen to a lot of hard rock, I usually listen to relax and escape (drug free!) I want a system that I can shut the doors, turn down the lights and lose myself in some wonderfully sounding music. I want great highs though and I was under the impression the Macs were really strong in that department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Looking back, I probably should have given the MC275 a better chance..as it did have a lot of bottom end "oomph"..but swapping backand forth, I preferred the midrange of my SET300Bs. Of course, if you do a forum search here, you'll see there is a great "debate" between Solid State amps, and also between tube amps, be it Push Pull with some watts, or SETs like mine, with very little watts. I'm not here to open that can of worms, it's all about the listener's preference. The C2200 was a disappointment in the "detail" area. I'm one of these that likes to hear the little nuances that are hard to pick up, like the two distinct guitars opening Elton John's "Captain Fantastic", the tube amp buzzing sound on Stevie Ray's "Little Wing", etc. After I got the C2200, I put on one of my standards, Gordon Lightfoot's "Canadian Railroad Trilogy" (CD version) and it sounded muffled. So I switched to the LP (still thru the Mac) and it sounded better, yet still veiled. Finally, I swapped my Adcom GFP565 back in, and all of a sudden, the detail were back. I tried this will many selections..and always found the Adcom came out on top. I didn't think this should be, what with a 5K unit against a 1K unit. Again, these are my preferences..the Mac is a laid back sound, and maybe too laid back for my ears. Then again, I haven't heard any vintage Mac gear, and the hype says the vintage stuff is better. Who knows. Anyway, get ready for the never ending upgrade bug. My preamp search has proven to be my longest. Sometimes I think it would have been easier to get rid of the Klipschorns, and try another speaker instead! Ahhh, I guess I'll keep 'em after 23 years! Good luck! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Dr. Who So why don't you tell us what you think is a good amp So why don't you tell us what you think are good speakers So why don't you tell us what is your type of music Point taken... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Thanks Steve................I really try to listen to other power sources, but can't get mcIntosh out of my mind. The only reason, and I mean only reason, that I don't own Mac's is the price. I want to buy NEW, not pre-used, and find Mac's to be out of touch right now. Someday buddy, someday. I wish I could shake off the Mac thing, but I can't. I have heard NOSvalved 299 Scott, heard SET amps, old Fisher Tube amp, and a ton of SS amps and receivers, and still want McIntosh. 30+ years ago I heard Mac powering La Scala's, and still can't forget it. Your views on Mac does make me think, and wonder.............Thanks for being so honest.....................Now if I can get that Hendrix tapestry out of you.....................Maybe I should just get out of this forum and hobby and go back deeply into cars...............cost about the same.....................EH !!!!................................Nah, I like my MUSIC............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 McIntosh is one of those brands that one will either LOVE, or simply think "not so much" of. They ARE a good match for Klipsch Heritage, offering a clear yet warm sound that is very comfortable. McIntosh is definitely a brand worth considering for your Klipsch. The 4100 will not show the transparency of the tube gear. The 4100 WILL show you a bit of the general way of the McIntosh sound.....but the tube gear will do it in clearer and more transparent fashion. No brand is for everyone, however, so it does pay to audition them somewhere if possible. If you buy your Macs used, there is less risk in loss of $$$ if you don't like them (granted, then there is no mfgr warranty). I also highly recommend looking at and investigating the crossover networks in the Klipschorns. Updating these will give better total performance, especially in the mids and highs. Many of the older caps in these crossovers mask the mids and highs somewhat. The networks and potential solutions vary, but having clean sounding networks will improve the performance of your speakers no matter what gear you use. I'm a McIntosh user here, but am using vintage rebuilt amps (MC-30s) using very high quality parts. You can feel free to check my profile to see where I am coming from...... HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Kialucky, where are you located? (I've not noticed any reference yet) Perhaps if you are with reasonable driving distance, someone will have a setup similar to what you'd like to hear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kialucky Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 I'm in Boise, Idaho. Not many Klipschorns out here...but what about them Boise State Broncos!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 what Audible Nectar said.. McIntosh is great gear, really..just not what I was looking for. Maybe it was my room..God knows I've complained about that before! It would really be worth your while to hear some mated to heritage speakers ..someone in Idaho has to have Mac/Klipsch combos! As an aside, I've tweaked my room, upgraded my crossovers to AL K's units (well worth it) gone the magic cable route, SS amps, SS preamps, tube amps, SET, PP, tube preamps..well..you get the picture. I'm getting closer to what I want..at the same time, I'm getting older, so my hearing is probably going south too. What I have at this time ( I reserve the right to use Max's signature i.e. what I believe today, etc.) is the best I've heard to ME! LIke I've said before, in the old days, with all analog..I didn't even question it. But that was then.. And, Oldbuckster..same for you. Get out and listen to McInstosh/Klipsch..it may be just the ticket for ya! And mayeb next Xmas, I'll get ya a copy of that Hendrix tapestry! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Steve, that's my problem, I've already heard Mac/Klipsch, 30 years ago,and just last week, I do know the sound, Wish I didn't. I like the sound, have heard many other combo's, but thats the sound I like best....................I have heard NOSvalved 299 Scott, and Kenwood, SONY,Yamaha, and God knows countless others, and still like the MAC sound...................doesn't mean I'm right, might mean I'm deaf.................EH ????? What a TEASE next Christmas maybe.........................Yeah Right.....................Hendrix tapestry..............Rock On Steve..................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 If you're gonna go all out, then you might consider investing in the upgrade kit from Klipsch - especially if your speakers are old. I think it comes with new crossover and new driver for the squaker? To be honest, I don't really know, but you can give Klipsch a call. If you're going to be building such an extensive system around the speakers, then I think it makes sense to start by getting the speakers back in shape first. Some more horrible advise by the young Jedi....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 That's why I tactfully suggested that one listens to a pair of AK-4 K-horns before plucking down the $1700. Of course, you are more direct............ Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpines Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Coytee, If you sell the MC-2102, I'll buy it. Email me, let's talk. PS Did you really like the OTL's that much? I was considering some 300B set amps but you've got me thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kialucky Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 Well, for me the debate ended. I got a used McIntosh Gordon Gow Edition MC275 tube amp, an Audio Aero Capitole Mkii CDP, which has it's own tubed pre-amp and so I just run it directly into the Mac. I also went to Home Depot and got some 1" pipe insulation and sealed the Khorns tight against the corners. No other changes... no expensive cables, same old crossovers, caps and drivers as whatever the 1985 Khorns came with. It sounds WONDERFUL!!! I didn't realize sealing the Khorns to the corners would tighten up the bass! I thought it would just add more boom to what I already thought was too much boom. But since I've sealed them, the bass is absolutely perfect (for my ears). I've heard a lot of systems, but right now I would put mine up against anything I've ever heard, and I think I did it for a fairly reasonable cost. Used Khorns ($2000), used MC 275 ($2750), used AA Capitole Mkii CDP ($4000). I auditioned systems in the $40,000 range and I like my Khorn/Mac sound better. Absolutely no listening fatigue, great at any listening level, incredible imaging, spine tingling highs and what that Mac/Khorn does with female vocals....wow. Unfortunately for some stupid reason, now I really want the McIntosh C2220 pre-amp. I've heard the AA Capitole CDP sounds even better running it through the C2220 instead of directly in the MC275. I don't quite know how it could sound that much better, but would sure like to find out. So, if I can find a reasonably priced usedC2220, that will be it for me. No more upgrading. I'll be happy until I go deaf....does McIntosh make cochlear implants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.