Jolida JD 100 versus Arcam CD 73 or CD 192 Comparisons

[wallflower]

Hi All,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I asked this question in my other thread but it was kind of buried...

Has anyone done an A/B comparison between the Jolida JD 100 and either the Arcam CD 73 or CD 192? If you have, please advise your impressions of the characteristics and differences.

I've searched Audioasylum and can't see anything that indicates a direct comparison.

Also, this is for a system with a 200W SS amp and SS pre-amp (soon to be a tube pre-amp) with La Scalas.

Thanks!

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Hi All,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I asked this question in my other thread but it was kind of buried...

Has anyone done an A/B comparison between the Jolida JD 100 and either the Arcam CD 73 or CD 192? If you have, please advise your impressions of the characteristics and differences.

I've searched Audioasylum and can't see anything that indicates a direct comparison.

Also, this is for a system with a 200W SS amp and SS pre-amp (soon to be a tube pre-amp) with La Scalas.

Thanks!

Jeff

I know that I have one for sale so I may be biased but why are you concentrating on the Jolida and not the AH! Cd player? The AH uses an upsample board to get you to 192 and is outstanding. You really should consider one of these.

Chris

[EL34]

I am a Jolida dealer and I find that the tubed CD players sound best in an other wise all solid state system and or with lower efficiency speakers. The problem with tubed Cd players and with most tubed preamps is that they color the sound at a very early stage and it just gets amplified from there on out. Also they have a higher noise floor and so the more efficient the speaker system, the more noise is noticed.

The JD100 will revolutionize a receiver based system and also one that is based on most solid state integrated amp or budget separates. It just makes the bass sound fat and the top end duller, plus adds more noise on top due to tube rush. The AH ToeJam is no better in that regard. All tubed players do it to some extent and only a very few that cost like $3k or more can compete with a SS unit.

I like the Jolida tube amps for the money and they are very quiet with most speakers. The LaScallas are not one of them ;-). I do have a customer who has a Jolida 202A and a pair of Hereseys and he loves the combo but is also picky about the tube noise. That is sort of a tough nut to crack. You either live with it or use a SS amp. It is tough finding a SS amp that sounds warm enough with them too but years ago I liked the Rega Brio best of any amp tried with the LaScalla. I will be trying the latest version with my Cornwalls today. You can also see my comments about the Rogue Audio amps and La Scallas, etc in another thread.

I have not heard the Arcam directly compared to the Jolida but I have heard the units that we carry which include Cambridge Audio, Music Hall, and Rega. I think the Cambridge Audio is most similar to the Arcam sonically. We used to have NAD here also and they are most similar in construction and some in sound also. I like the Cambridge Audio for the money. The very best bang for the buck is the Rega Apollo. If you want to hear something spooky real in terms of how quiet it is, resolution and dynamics, then try out the new Cambridge 840C. It is amazing but is more expensive and also can be a little forward sounding. I like it in a tube system and we usually demo it with the Rogue Audio amps. It also has other features not found in other units such as the fastest converters on the planet (384khz sampling rate) and two digital inputs which allow you to connect two other sources and take advantage of the awesome DACs in it.

-Bill

[rivieraranch]

How would a Jolida 100 sound together with a Jolida 302B amplifier and Klipsch RF-82 speakers.

I currently have a Cambridge 640 with the 302B.

[George Roland]

Bill,

A lot of Klipsch Forum members really like the Jolida tube CD player. I have been interested in looking for a CD player because mine, a H/K unit, is starting to show its age in various mechanical problems. In any case, I was interested in some more detail in your "take" on the Rega Apollo and Klipsch speakers (I have K-horns). One aspect that has given me pause in reviews of Rega CD players is reference to sometimes overemphasis on highs coming across as a little brittle. This is something I don't needs to be emphasized with Klipsch speakers!

Thanks,

George

[EL34]

Hi George,

The Apollo is easily the single most analog sounding CD player that I have ever listened to. It is in no way bright at all. Those guys must have been listening to a tubed player and thought that a rolled-off high end was what was normal or perhaps they are smoking crack (or both ;-)! I actually find that some tube players have a brighter top end than the Apollo. Not many of them have the same HF extension, but they get more strident and punchy at those frequencies. They are just not as linear. If you look at the measurements in the Stereophile review, you will see that the response of the Apollo is almost ruler flat and that it actually has a very slight roll-off of the highs at about 18khz or so but only by around 1db if I recall correctly. in any case, it is as smooth as silk and has tons of information presented as well. It offers a very rare combination of high resolution and ease of listening.

-Bill

[EL34]

How would a Jolida 100 sound together with a Jolida 302B amplifier and Klipsch RF-82 speakers.

I currently have a Cambridge 640 with the 302B.

Hi,

If you like the JD302 and I am assuming that you do, then you can get away with the JD100. I actually prefer the 640C myself so i would just stick with it or look into a Rega Apollo if you want the best of both. The bass will be a little more rounded with the Jolida player and the top end a little more smooth with the Rega. They are all very nice sounding machines.

-Bill

[NOSValves]

I think someone needs to change the tube gear he is promoting. Klipsch heritage speakers will indeed bring out the worst if the worst is present.

Craig

[EL34]

HA, Ha!

I have heard most of the gear available and literally tons of vintage gear and I believe that I have made the best choices both for sound and pricing. In your other post you say that Klipsch speakers are "pesky" and benefit from modification. Neither the electronics or the speakers that we offer are pesky or need modification. The electronics work very well with all types of loudspeakers, some are just better suited to some than others.

Just because I like some solid state products best for some applications is no indication of the quality of vacuum tube products of any brand. It is simply a technology issue. You are obviously promoting vacuum tubes. Let's not be vindictive simply because I point out a well known fact about the inherent superiority of solid state devices in both high gain and high efficiency circuits.

-Bill

[NOSValves]

And what speaker brands are you an authorized dealer for? Or do you just sell gear and no speakers? I suggest you slow down and earn some respect around here. It takes time to be welcomed in on any internet forum. It doesn't help when you pop in and instantly try to sell a set of speakers this isn't eBay. Take your time slow down and ease your way in.

Craig

PS: look at my signature I use a SS CD player

[NOSValves]

dp

[cjgeraci]

Craig:

I believe his shop is an authorized dealer for Tannoy speakers. Given what is portrayed on the website, I doubt that you would find a pair of Klipsch speakers set up in his brick and mortar store.

Bill, since you've weighed in that tubed CDPs do not make a good choice with horns and other tubes, we assume that your opinions are based on first hand knowledge, e.g. you own(ed) some Klipsch, Altecs, etc. and have tried a JD100 with other tubes and horns? Or are you opinions based on your customers' feedback? That might make a difference in this forum.................

Many in here, including myself, have really loved the tubed CDP, tube preamp and ss/tube amp combination with horns and without experiencing rolled off top ends or fat bass or extra noise. Again, based on our own listening experiences. What's yours?

Carl.

[EL34]

Hi Carl,

I am speaking from direct experience here in this instance. I have many customers and I can also use their experiences as a matter of gauge to make for a broader base of information. When I say that "this is what I hear", then that is what I mean. I don't use others experience as a substitute for my own. That is indeed common on forums however. I can't say that everyone will feel the same way about every component or this would be a very boring world indeed. I mean where would we have fun without Bose lovers to marvel at?! I do know that tube components produce more noise than SS. It is both audible ans measurable no matter how you slice it. Once the music starts, you are obviously going to hear other things that come into play and some of those may outweigh noise for you.

Hi Craig,

I don't mean to be a prick, I just don't fancy people painting my products with such broad strokes. If you know from personal experience that you prefer one particular piece over another, it would be most helpful to be specific. My commects were about tube technology Vs SS, not about brands. As far as "easing my way in", I really don't mind the "torch bearing reception party". I am used to a lot of BS being thrown around and I just try to stay clear of it and keep my position above that by sticking to the facts. Actually I have not felt unwelcome here at all and no one seems to be offensive, perhaps opinionated, but not offensive. As far as my opinions go, well they are just that. I would like to think that my observations deserve the same respect as anyone's. After all I have been doing this for a very long time. It's nothing to get worked-up about, it's only speakers...

[jt1stcav]

..."The JD100 will revolutionize a receiver based system and also one that is based on most solid state integrated amp or budget separates. It just makes the bass sound fat and the top end duller, plus adds more noise on top due to tube rush. The AH ToeJam is no better in that regard."

Bill, I would just like to remind you that there are also alot of Njoe Tjoeb owners here who swear by their players. Refering to their players as "ToeJam" is not presenting yourself in a good light with AH! Tjoeb owners, even though this is strictly your opinion on the subject. We're all here to learn and enjoy; whether you like a certain component or not, bashing it is not always a good way to express your thoughts if you want to gain the respect from other forum members who are here to learn from people like you with your vast experience and knowledge in audio.

Don't mean any disrespect...just thought I'd bring this to your attention. BTW, I'm not a JD 100 or Njoe Tjoeb owner; I'm very happy with my azur 640C with my 300B SET amp and 6SN7 SRPP linestage pre, and I find your comments on the azur 840C very interesting indeed!

Welcome to the Klipsch Forums, and enjoy your stay here!

[hondajake]

This is interesting thread. I am looking, still, for a CDP for my system. I am strongly considering the Jolida JD100 till I found an Arcam dealer near me.

To me a tube CDP would be best since I have Klipsch speakers and a Jolida hybrid...

[EL34]

Hi Jim,

I guess I don't deserve the same respect according to another user here, but hey that's no excuse to stoop to his level. I guess I took a shortcut there and just gave it a descriptive name rather than a lengthy review. Oh well.

I think that you would really like the Rega Saturn then. It does some things that the 840C does but in a smoother, warmer way. They both clobber the 640C and I agree that the 640C is a really nice sounding player, especially for the price. The real cool thing about the 840C is the additional inputs for the DAC. I might buy one myself. I have been thinking about a system overhaul anyway. I have a really nice all SS system now and I have had it for a few years with only changes to the amp and speakers. I didn't change anything because I felt I needed to improve it, rather because my two year old daughter was making me nervous being in the same room with a nice pair of speakers. She has been real good and not messed-up anything but I am on the defensive about it so there is not a "first time". I think I will get this Rogue Audio Perseus preamp first and then maybe a power amp and whatever speaker flavor I am in the mood for at the time. I have a lot of nice brands available to choose from. Right now I just have a pair of powered monitors going so a preamp will do it for me for now. The 840C would serve as a great CD player and also a DAC for both my DVD player and Direct TV receiver. I am liking the idea!

-Bill

[EL34]

This is interesting thread. I am looking, still, for a CDP for my system. I am strongly considering the Jolida JD100 till I found an Arcam dealer near me.

To me a tube CDP would be best since I have Klipsch speakers and a Jolida hybrid...

Hi Jake,

You might like the Jolida. A lot of people do. I think the system gets too muddy with the 100 and the 1701 together though. If you have a Jolida dealer where you can hear some various pieces, I would give a listen to one of the pure tube amps instead. For about the same money, you could trade-in your 1701 and get a JD302. Then you might find the Sony ES to be a reasonable piece for a while.

No doubt that the current round-up of players is better but I have never really warmed-up to the 1701 so much. If you do like it in your system (and it is certainly better than a lot of other options), then I would think that you would prefer a Cambridge Audio unit (or an Arcam for that matter). I actually has a 1701 in my home for a couple of years. My wife picked it out for a second system. We then went through a few others that she hasn't really cared for so much (my bust, I was just trying to keep her stuff more current) until I brought home the Rega Brio 3. That one is a keeper. The 1701 had a nice, warm sound to it but it was not so resolving and doesn't have the bass extension of the 1501 (the 1501 is pretty amazing really). I guess what I am trying to point out is synergy here. I always like to mate gear that keeps the overall system output in the neutral range from a frequency balance perspective and from a resolution and soundstage perspective. I don't like too forward and bright, and I don't like dull and WAY distant. A solid state CD player that has a warmer balance will work great with most any amplifier, but a tube based unit can introduce too much warmth and the bass can get slow and heavy, while the top end rolls off and develops peaks. Good tube gear costs a lot of money and there is usually a better alternative. You might think of it like a hybrid system just as you have now if you go with a SS player and a pure tube integrated. The pay off will be higher resolution and better linearity. The only down side is a slightly higher cost and tube replacements. Output tubes are going to be a maintanance cost with a pure tube amp and they do produce alot of heat if that is ever an issue. Good luck!

-Bill

[jt1stcav]

Oh yeah, the Rega Saturn would also do quite nicely (along with the 840C, natch). Seems all the previous Rega disc players are also held in high regards here on this forum; they mate very well with Klipsch loudspeakers. But due to my extremely tight budget right now, my 640C will due for the moment (no regrets so far).

[Audio Flynn]

I am a Jolida dealer and I find that the tubed CD players sound best in an other wise all solid state system and or with lower efficiency speakers. The problem with tubed Cd players and with most tubed preamps is that they color the sound at a very early stage and it just gets amplified from there on out. Also they have a higher noise floor and so the more efficient the speaker system, the more noise is noticed.

The JD100 will revolutionize a receiver based system and also one that is based on most solid state integrated amp or budget separates. It just makes the bass sound fat and the top end duller, plus adds more noise on top due to tube rush. The AH ToeJam is no better in that regard. All tubed players do it to some extent and only a very few that cost like $3k or more can compete with a SS unit.

I like the Jolida tube amps for the money and they are very quiet with most speakers. The LaScallas are not one of them ;-). I do have a customer who has a Jolida 202A and a pair of Hereseys and he loves the combo but is also picky about the tube noise. That is sort of a tough nut to crack. You either live with it or use a SS amp. It is tough finding a SS amp that sounds warm enough with them too but years ago I liked the Rega Brio best of any amp tried with the LaScalla. I will be trying the latest version with my Cornwalls today. You can also see my comments about the Rogue Audio amps and La Scallas, etc in another thread.

I have not heard the Arcam directly compared to the Jolida but I have heard the units that we carry which include Cambridge Audio, Music Hall, and Rega. I think the Cambridge Audio is most similar to the Arcam sonically. We used to have NAD here also and they are most similar in construction and some in sound also. I like the Cambridge Audio for the money. The very best bang for the buck is the Rega Apollo. If you want to hear something spooky real in terms of how quiet it is, resolution and dynamics, then try out the new Cambridge 840C. It is amazing but is more expensive and also can be a little forward sounding. I like it in a tube system and we usually demo it with the Rogue Audio amps. It also has other features not found in other units such as the fastest converters on the planet (384khz sampling rate) and two digital inputs which allow you to connect two other sources and take advantage of the awesome DACs in it.

-Bill

I have never heard the AH Noetoeb CD player but the transport appears to be far less than robust. What kind of SS CD player and price point do you refer to?

[cjgeraci]

A follow up on my prior comments regarding the Jolida JD100. There are a number of companies offering modifications for the Jolida JD100. I own a Jolida JD100 previously modded by Parts ConneXion, through Underwood Hi Fi. Their mod claims to provide, among other things, a quieter background, more details and dynamics, and a tighter bass (more similar to SS) as opposed to the stock version of the player. It is this modded version that my comments pertain to and that player has worked very well with horns and other tubes in my system. I have only heard a stock JD100 once, on "traditional" speakers and with only solid state. It sounded nice, but that did not give me an adequate point of reference to compare my modded player and any of the claimed benefits.

Other owners of modded JD100s in this forum also have voiced approval with other tubes and horns. Additionally, I have seen a number of modded players come up for sale on the preowned market for much less than people would think.

Bill's website appears to indicate that he is a Jolida dealer for stock JD100s so I am not sure if his comments about the JD100/Jolida tube amp combination also apply to modded versions of the CDP. I just know that my modded version works and plays well with other tubes and with horns.

Carl.