Vista schmista!!

[el jopez]

Mas, you seem like you "know" whats going on.

I've heard several people say that the "best buy" (not the company) right now is the MacBook Pro and use Bootcamp with XP Pro and I'm rocking in the best of both worlds. Care to comment?

[mas]

I have a bit of insight into it - simply as I was integrally involved with the internals development of AIX and the IBM RS/6000 SP.... (think Blue Gene, ASCI White, ASCI Blue, etc...). And I am one of the few outside Intel to have messed with and certified Intel's RS/6000SP they use for internal development! Nope! Intel does not develop on Intel! (Imagine the ad! "Don't buy Intel! Buy what Intel buys!" As if everyone needs a supercomputer on their desktop...)

I would dump Boot Camp. Oh, its fine if you want to reboot each time you want to open Windows, or OSX if you are in Windows! But what a pain!

Instead, you can use Parallel, or better yet, VMWare to load multiple OSes in what is called a virtual machine and open them in different windows simultaneously - NO REBOOTING (well, that is until Windows crashes or hangs - which it even does less frequently by the way in a VM!) In this config, you simply click on an icon and it boots the other machine - and it runs in a totally independent and protected space and thinks its the only OS on the machine!...With its own apps, data, etc.

But (while you can do it on many PC's) , right now the Mac is the only platform set up out of the box to run the multiple OSes - anything that runs on the PC, including all of the Linuxes if you want.

Even if you only want to run Windows, the Mac is the platform to buy. And lest any Windows user want to trash OSX or Unix, you might want to check it out before you do. You will be surprised - only allow yourself 2-3 weeks to get used to it - as you will be lost unlearning many wacko routines that you know think 'normal'! After that period, you will find going back to Windows an awkward kludge But for a few weeks as you keep trying to treat the Mac as a Windows machine, you will be cussing OSX!

But it is a heck of a combination! And you have a wealth of apps from the nest of both worlds.(And you can even run the 2 or 3 available for Linux under OSX without loading Linux if you want. [] )

Oh, and as far as the Mac being proprietary and pricey???? That was 10 years ago!!!!

In many cases the Mac is MUCH lower in price when you compare, dare I say it, Apples and 'oranges'.

And I just spent the last several days attending MS's dog and Pony show for Vista and their CRM, etc, products, plus getting all of their stuff (literally) free each quarter, plus about 6 copies of Office 2007 the day before yesterday!

Oh, and I was absolutely amazed at the number of folks at the MS events - including MS staff - who are using the Mac now! Amazing!

OSX already delivers MORE than Vista in a more stable form. And with Leopard in a few months, there will be no more distinction between 32 and 64 bit as there is in Windows - all OSX will be fully 64 bit/32 bit compatible. The memory management already is - and that is what is the most worthwhile for most users.

The Mac is a PC! Deal with it!

And just imagine, full blown standards compliant UNIX under a GUI your mom will love! AND the atomistic power of a full blown command line UNIX/FreeBSD interface IF you want it! Ease and power! Plus the other OSes if you want them! ALL on ONE elegant and comparably priced machine!

Oh, am I excited? D@mned right I am! Its been almost 25 years that I have waited for ONE machine that will allow us to unify the utility of the UNIX and MS/Windows worlds - and to do it in an elegant manner! The time is now folks!

[Audio Flynn]

Oh, and as far as the Mac being proprietary and pricey???? That was 10 years ago!!!!

In many cases the Mac is MUCH lower in price when you compare, dare I say it, Apples and 'oranges'.

And I just spent the last several days attending MS's dog and Pony show for Vista and their CRM, etc, products, plus getting all of their stuff (literally) free each quarter, plus about 6 copies of Office 2007 the day before yesterday!

Oh, and I was absolutely amazed at the number of folks at the MS events - including MS staff - who are using the Mac now! Amazing!

OSX
already delivers MORE than Vista in a more stable form. And with
Leopard in a few months, there will be no more distinction between 32
and 64 bit as there is in Windows - all OSX will be fully 64 bit/32 bit
compatible. The memory management already is - and that is what is the
most worthwhile for most users.

The Mac is a PC! Deal with it!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I have been thinking in this vien for a while although I have never owned a MAC. PCs are for my kids to learn to be fruastrated. []I would be more inclined to get a MAC if I could build my own.

GAteway refused to sell me a machine with WIN98 years ago. I HAD to take MS Millenium edition. Reformatted the HD 4 times in one year. Last time I will ever buy Gateway.

VISTA will be a worse memory hog than any previous OS. 2 gig of RAM with a dual core processor would be my minimum to run it. Copy protection inherent in VISTA will reduce the functionality of the PC as a tool. I will keep XP as long as I can!

But do not listen to me I have been into audio and computers since 1976 and do not know diddly doo.

[jheis]

Mark:

I agree, NeXT is (was) totally proprietary - even down to requiring a NeXT specific printer! And I know NeXTStep/OpenStep is just a smiley face on top of unix.

I fell into mine almost by accident. One of my clients produces Steve Jobs' product intro's and things such as his keynotes at MacWorld Expo, etc. Anyway, my buddy had a Cube and he turned me on to the factory auction when NeXT closed shop in either '92 or '94 (I forget). He couldn't make it, so he asked me if I could attend the auction and try to pick up a couple of "metro carts" for his shop. I went, but unfortunately for my friend, they were selling metro carts in lots of, like 1,500.

They were, however, selling the NeXT Cubes individually, so I bought myself what was then a $10k computer for $600. Also picked up three NIB printers at a subsequent auction (still have one factory sealed). Sure it's old and slow, but how fast can you type, anyway? The NeXT was built to mil. spec. and has NEVER crashed in the 13 to 15 years I've owned it.

Oh, so the Mac isn't proprietary - it just has DRM - and only since the recent adoption of the Intel architecture. I have nothing against the Mac, they've spent a ton of money making unix slick looking and accessable - based on the NeXTStep/OpenStep OS that I know and love. I just happen to be an advocate for open source.

The world may run Windoze, but I never will. I despise Gates and his predatory anti-competitive, robber baron practices. I consider M$'s control of the market to be the ultimate triumph of mediocrity. (I won't use Linspire specifically because it mimics windoze.)

I've used a number of different Linux versions over the years, including Red Hat, SuSE, and JDS. I haven't found any of them to be particularly difficult to use. Of course, there sometimes are a few teething problems, but nothing like what I'm hearing about M$ products.

Your Mom may not be able to manage it, but I can do everything I need to do using open source applications (all two or three of them).

James

[Bill H.]

Hello,

I guess I'll be the lone desenter here who likes Vista ! Was up and running within 10 minutes, and I have been using it alot this weekend !

I like Windows Mail, because it lets me use my DSL's address, instead of hotmail, or the dredded Outlook Express...........a simple, easy platform.

I too, looked at Mac's but finally decided on staying with MS and Dell............... Part of your original Problem was that you bought a Gateway computer - IMO.

[colterphoto1]

Yes, get the Mac. I was a Mac user from College (good marketing there Apple) and strangely was forced into PC land with my photo business. Somehow the developers of our first 'proofless' scan-from-film software thought of their work as business oriented, not art-oriented and wanted to aim for the majority of the market- so this software was PC only. Now I have photo editing and Photoshop on my PC and my Mac has by Excel, Word, and Accounting software on it.

Isn't that complete backwards? I hate it- I have two computers on my desk and both are doing the wrong jobs arrrggghhhhh.

My next computer will be a BIG MAC and I'll never buy PC again. Oh, and does any get why we're 'renting' software for annual fees now instead of purchasing and upgrading occasionally? They're 'renting' me to death- I had 4 programs that charged me on Jan 1 or *poof*.

[gonzp]

I purchased a Mac Mini at the end of 2005 and have not looked back. I have not had one single crash or one single virus. When I want to use it it just works. It never slows down. Best computer decision I have ever made.

[mas]

"Oh, so the Mac isn't proprietary - it just has DRM - and only since the recent adoption of the Intel architecture."

The Mac is NOT proprietary. No more so that any "PC".

And if you object to DRM, you had best dump the x86 platform entirely! And trying to tie it to Apple is simply absurd.

Do a bit of research into the Trusted Computing Initiative that has been active for the past 3 years and which has been incorporated by just about every manufacturer. Additionally you will be surprised what is in every CPU, despite the bruhaha several years ago over Pentiums having serial numbers!

The need to authenticate sources is outweighing any desire you may have to remain totally anonymous. And the demand for this capability is only gaining ground. And it is occurring on the hardware level even faster than on the software level. So open source or not, its a rather moot point.

Even Skype is reading your registry in Windows!

-------------------

As for the rest of this, except for perhaps the last one or two paragraphs, most of you can ignore this, as most of it will probably not make much sense
if you are not intimate with Linux or some of the other UNIX
weirdnesses. And I am NOT trying to beat up James! I am simply going to rant a bit about the pleasantries of Linux and the greater Linux community - of whom many are friends...and just a few of my many frustrations with it! (And I won't even touch on how the Windows heritage Linux programmer folks 'fixed' - a euphemism for utterly confused - what has been a rather monolithic hierarchical structure of Unix, in Linux!)

Yeah, and 'help' is available for Linux...sort of...

I can just see the average person posting RFCs for assistance with the machine that has become crippled (??). Yep, if they can only figure out what an RFC is! Or how to post them if their machine is down! And the fact that something can be done, doesn't establish it as a convenient method for most to do so. I live in commandline AIX, but I could just as easily use the Browser interface or SMIT (- and for some functions that would employ 86 arcane flags, I will certainly jump over.) So? The average user would not prefer the commandline. And so with Linux. Sure you can use it. If it works for you, great! Most have no business getting anywhere near it unless they are going to spend the time to learn the internals!

So, Linux is not for the casual user who simply wants to use the computer as a tool without becoming intimate with the internals of the environment! The fact remains that some folks simply want to use the computer as a tool without acquiring a degree in computer science. Just as some folks simply want to get in a car and drive to the store without having to learn the principles and how to design a fuel injection system. Or heaven forbid, some just want to 'flick their Bic' and light a candle rather than learn how to start a fire from first principles and flint, steel and tinder! And in this respect, Linux is a failure.

Linux is great for an admin who wants to administer solid robust mid-range servers and avoid Windows and who don't need the expense and power of the large UNIXes. But as soon as you get into the mainstream enterprise Linuxes, the licensing of packages such as Red Hat exceeds even the licensing of MS Windows! So the myth that Linux is necessarily cheaper is absurd - especially when it is coupled to the actual cost of having skilled admin to deal with it. And no, I am NOT a MS fan! AIX has been compliant with Linux since 1997 with the release of 5L (hence the "L") when 64 bit Suse was first used as an alternative compatible environment for those not needing the robustness and scalability of AIX - and Linux definitely lacks high-end scalability as well as basic functionality. Yup, and we were using 64 bit Suse Linux 10 years ago! Wow time flies! And before you jump on the basic functionality issue, may I suggest your spending a few minutes to become familiar with the basic capabilities of AIX's Logical Volume Manager (LVM). Compared to the basic functionality that is built into the OS, all OSes look puny and backward! And the portion that HP used from the code IBM open sourced, while powerful, is still limited in comparison.

And still, if you are dead set on running a purely open source environment, I personally would opt for (and would recommend) any of the BSD variants before messing with UNIX. And you will still have to address the issues regarding apps! But sure, it can be done!

So while I can beat up Linux, that is not really my point.

It works if you are willing to play with it and learn it. And anyone willing to deal with that and to deal with the lack of mainstream apps and compatibility is welcome to do so. But there are issues, even if you like it. And the average person who is dealing with the general workplace or simple compatibility with friends is going to have problems. And while community based help is available, most are not up to the process, and even more will become frustrated long before they become intimate with the process. How many folks here are familiar with RFCs? A show of hands please.... Yep...most don't need Linux or BSD!

And the perpetual tirade by some in the open source community that something is not good because someone makes a small or fair profit is not valid. That old rant sounds like someone intent on instituting Communism. And I don't care about what MS does. But the world is not driven by folks who code in the upstairs bedroom devoid of the need to support themselves or a family! And I get rather tired of the same fanatical rant offered by many who think that its OK to be 45 years old and living at home with mom and dad programming in their quest to change the world as they trash anyone who dares sell the fruit of their labor and actually earn a living. And while you are not doing this, there are plenty who do exactly this! Heck, we're still dealing with the Gnu-Linux wars! And we won't even get into the ludicrous GPL licensing battles currently ensuing...

So.... if you want to use Linux, you certainly can. It's simply not for the casual user.

But, unless you are dead set on building a white box and troubleshooting it yourself, if you are dead set n running Linux, I would still recommend running it as one of several possible OSes on a new Mac with VMWare...as the Mac will accommodate any of the flavors of Linux or BSD as well - along with any version of Windows or OSX.

Oh, and James, if you like Linux, congrats! My hat is off to you!

As much as I may gripe about Linux, it is still more elegant, if not as user friendly, than that black box kludge known as Windows!

Oh, and by the way...regarding Windows, it was a hoot to watch as MS touted a new feature of Vista being an arcane environmental status display - what others have called an error log for oh these many years! And now when something crashes in Windows, instead of you simply wondering what app crashed, you can look in the error report and it will tell you that Office just crashed. Whoopee! Now, before you get toooo excited, it won't tell you what processes conflicted or were starved or entered into a race condition, nor will it tell you if a trap or other exception has occurred or just why 'it' failed. But it will tell you that a 'problem' has occurred! Hallelujah! Just what we needed. No insight into the cause of the problem, but it will tell us what we already know! And you wondered if you should upgrade? But hey, even MS is expecting that 90% of the migration to Vista will be via the purchase of new machines and not upgrades!

[]

PS - I love the NeXt! And if you like(d) it, you should have a Mac! Its "in" there!

PSS - The really neat thing about the Mac is that YOU have a CHOICE! Not of 2/3 of what is available, but of all of it! YOU decide what environments make the most sense for YOU! ... not simply what another manufacturer allows you.

And YOU have the opportunity to try whatever floats YOUR boat - and even a few that might sink it - but with the option of simply deleting them!!!

And bottomline, choice is a beautiful thing!

[falcon20x]

I switched to a mac three years ago after using windows for 5 years and never look back either.

Let's be honnest here, I think anyone who's used mac will admit that they are a lot more stable.

There customer support is rated number one in all the magazines and it is true. I never had to wait more than 5 minutes and always got the answer I was looking for.

Now price wise, can you get a dual core PC with and 17 inch lcd screen and all the goodies for around $1,000 ?

May be, but you' ll get what you pay for, meaning a box wich may or may not work with a so called customer support.

Macs work because Apple is the only one making it and they keep control of it, while microsoft let every body adapt the hardware to the operating system ( no wonder why nothing ever worked).

Now let's talk about Vista: after waiting forever for a new oprating system which was suppose to run on 64 bit ( which mac has been doing for few years now) what's new?

Well pretty much nothing which I have not seen on mac as matter If you take the fancy colors and design away, some of the applications seems very close to mac besides the fact that once again the mac works.

Vista already have a security patch out, and If memory serves me right during the Las Vega conference it only took 45 minutes for one of the guy to break into Vista.

Microsoft has not figure it out yet, instead on keeping upgrading the platform they would be a lot better starting from scratch to build a stable system but wait it is already done it is called a mac.

I know a lot of people are going to say that windows is more user friendly and has more choices in programs, may be but theses days macs have come a long way and you can pretty much do everything on mac that you would do with windows and if you can't that's ok because a mac will run windows too! Let's a PC do that.

I'm not saying macs are flawless, they are not but the fact that the thing does not crash all the time, most of the apps work and they have a 5 stars customer support is worth it to me.

Let's not forget the fact that hacking, virus and spyware is almost no where to found on mac.

i 'm sure many people will go off the wall about this, and I won't argue, ignorance is a blessing for mac users, so keep praising Windows while mac users watch quietly wiht a smile on there

faces.

Windows 98 worth 0.10

Windows 2000 worth 0.20

Windows Xp worth 0.99

Windows Vista worth ?

For everything else there is Mac, priceless.

By the way the link to you tube is hilarious

[oscarsear]

As a post script to my computer purchasing journey I must report that my new Mac mouse broke after only 4 days of usage.  It was that neat little scroll ball that died.  It just stopped scrolling down.  If you go to the online Apple store and look up the mouse (wired or not) you'll find customer feedback.  It gets reamed for this very problem.  The wired mouse is rated by Apple users at 2 out of 5 stars.  I contacted the store I bought it at and they told me to bring the mouse in for a replacement.  They failed to mention that they needed to return it to Apple and get the replacement from Apple.  That would have left me mouse-less except that I had my old wireless suite that I used with my XP computer.  It fired up real nice on the Mac.  I was going to purchase a Mac wireless suite but won't now.  The other thing that bothers me about my new Mac is the software it came with.  It does lots of things but it has no card games and the word processing software is very limited (IMHO).  Of course they give you a free 30 day trial of their IMac word processing software that sings, dances and does double back Gayners off the high board.  It's only another $70.00.  That's just cheesy marketing.  It is a really neat computer and as yet I'm still an Apple infant.  My son will visit soon and help guide me to a higher state of Macness.

[Professor.Ham.Slap]

Hello,

I guess I'll be the lone desenter here who likes Vista ! Was up and running within 10 minutes, and I have been using it alot this weekend !

I like Windows Mail, because it lets me use my DSL's address, instead of hotmail, or the dredded Outlook Express...........a simple, easy platform.

I too, looked at Mac's but finally decided on staying with MS and Dell............... Part of your original Problem was that you bought a Gateway computer - IMO.

I'll back you up on that. I'm running Vista on my laptop and I absolutely love it. My laptop has actually been running since the install three days after release and so far not a hick-up. I'm going to try to make the three month point (possibly further if possible) and see what happens. If I remember correctly XP was generally considered stable for approximately 60 days, but yeah, definitely so far so good.

[mas]

As a post script to my computer purchasing journey I must report that my new Mac mouse broke after only 4 days of usage. It was that neat little scroll ball that died. It just stopped scrolling down. If you go to the online Apple store and look up the mouse (wired or not) you'll find customer feedback. It gets reamed for this very problem. The wired mouse is rated by Apple users at 2 out of 5 stars. I contacted the store I bought it at and they told me to bring the mouse in for a replacement. They failed to mention that they needed to return it to Apple and get the replacement from Apple. That would have left me mouse-less except that I had my old wireless suite that I used with my XP computer. It fired up real nice on the Mac. I was going to purchase a Mac wireless suite but won't now. The other thing that bothers me about my new Mac is the software it came with. It does lots of things but it has no card games and the word processing software is very limited (IMHO). Of course they give you a free 30 day trial of their IMac word processing software that sings, dances and does double back Gayners off the high board. It's only another $70.00. That's just cheesy marketing. It is a really neat computer and as yet I'm still an Apple infant. My son will visit soon and help guide me to a higher state of Macness.

You would bring up the mouse and their keyboard....

Ok...IMO, they stink! There, I said it! Now some may disagree and that is fine! But I like what works best (think: the best of breed and a good bargain!) and I am not simply blindly loyal to a brand name.

Now the mouse is incorporating some pretty neat technology, but their sticking with the 'hockey puck' ambidextrous design that is generic enough to be used by either hand, and unstructured enough to be suited to neither is a mess. My person suggestion? Replace it with a 3 button mouse. You get all of the functionality that has always been in UNIX. I personally use the Logitech TrackMan Wheel mouse - a thumb ball whereby I navigate the entire screen by simply moving my thumb. My hand simply rests. No fatigue and it couldn't be easier! The name is confusing as heck and does not help you to identify it, and i am quite happy with the wired version (although wireless is available).

http://www.provantage.com/logitech-904353-0403~7LGTT002.htm

http://www.atpm.com/11.12/trackman.shtml (but whats this nonsense about 'older' users???) Use it and you'll love it.

(BTW, I am not referring to roller ball that you move with your fingers - sort of a generic upside down mouse - I hate that variant and have never understood how some can use them!)

And the keyboard...well let's just say I would go after market. As you discovered, the majority of the aftermarket devices work (I hesitate to say all because there may be that odd unit that does not).

Also, if you are contemplating a Mac purchase, go with the minimal RAM configuration and then shop around for the cheapest appropriate RAM with a lifetime guarantee. There are many vendors. But Apple's prices are other worldly and quite frankly outrageous!

But bottomline, they are generally very well made, with a few little quirks as mentioned above.

And you need to stop thinking of them as a Mac and start thinking of them as simply more capable (in terms of the compatible OSes) PCs, as that is exactly what they are! That is exactly what they became with the move to Intel. So, if you are looking at add ons, make sure they have a reasonable return policy, do a bit of reasonable due diligence and don't be intimidated!

Again, this is my opinion and you may of course find the generic stuff just fine.

But one thing you will find traditional with the Mac. Ever since their beginning when they employed SCSI and then with USD and Firewire (think of Firewire as a SCSI on steroids or a Smart USB), devices have been daisy chained via an external port. I get a kick out of the PC mags identifying this as an expansion limitation, as they are historically used to cracking the case and messing with interrupts or some other extremely user friendly procedure), but with the smaller Macs simply anticipate externally daisy chaining the plug and play peripherals. So I mention this as many of the traditional PC folks you may encounter in a store may incorrectly tell you that peripheral expansion (hard drives, etc., etc., etc.) is limited.

Oh, and in the generic PC CPU market... If you were thinking of building your own box, you need to think about going back to AMD. Although Intel assumed a preferred price-performance position with the Core2Dua, AMD has re-assumed the price performance leadership position with their new 6000+ CPU. And the new pricing schemes are extremely aggressive. Always a good thing for consumers! You are going to see allot of press about it and you might want to go straight to Tom's Hardware for the skinny on it (and any other Tech developments):

http://www.tomshardware.com ( a great reference for ALL things computer)

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/02/20/does-amds-athlon-64-x2-6000-have-any-kick-left/

I love the increase in options in choices!

Have fun!

PS. And for those interested in Vista...You will find it runs just as well 'as Windows runs' on the Mac as well as the PC!
(sorry for the bit of a back handed compliment, but I'm not going to lie. And yes, I run Windows too!). Remember, the Mac is a full blown PC!

But you will also discover is that OSX already has the vast majority of what is being sold in Vista, and with the new version of OSX coming out in 2-3 months, you might want to think of this update as what has already been labeled "Vista 2". Oh, and on the Mac there will be no more distinction between 32 and 64 bit. As it will be all natively 64 bit and 32 bit compatible. And it will be transparent to you.

[pauln]

My 10 year old Macintosh 6500 is still running 7.5.5 fine locally and on the net. Although it only has a 300MHz processor and 100MBytes of RAM it is way faster than my 2 year old Dell XP machine - way faster! A joy to use, been loving Macs since 1987. Been hating PCs since 82.

[seti]

Well Gateway got their machine back. Got a Mac OS 10 So far so good. I know medicine. I do not know computer systems. I'm sure there's a ton of stuff I could be doing with them and don't but for now I just putz around and mostly play.

Congrats No turning back now : ) If you have any questions about it just send me a pm as I would be glad to help. One of my best friends who has been a computer gear head since 1980 and once swore never to own a Mac just ordered a powerbook : )

[seti]

My 10 year old Macintosh 6500 is still running 7.5.5 fine locally and on the net. Although it only has a 300MHz processor and 100MBytes of RAM it is way faster than my 2 year old Dell XP machine - way faster! A joy to use, been loving Macs since 1987. Been hating PCs since 82.

LOL holy crap I used to have one of those!!!! Didn't it have nubus? Macs tend to have much better resale rates than PCs. I actually ran OS X back when it was code named Rhapsody and didn't have a gui yet and that was my first experience with bsd unix.

[JJkizak]

The 10year old Mac story is a total laugh. That means you are about 30 generations behind in technology. Lets see, do you still have the Mac 4 color video card like my Uncle had?

JJK

[pauln]

Only a laugh to those with short experience in this area. I built my first computer (very simple one) in '67 for a school project. I began using mainframes in '73 (later was an operator), I've assembled mini-computers (rack systems), was working with 16-bit personal computers two years before the IBM PC came out in '82...

The 6500 color is 'millions' and looks better than the PC. I also have my '87 SE that I upgraded to an SE 30. Why do I need to suffer 30 generations of technology? I run all the MS Office software... all I need and the Mac is much, much faster than the PC. I've used a lot of PCs and Windows has always been absurdly slow; I can't stand waiting for the menus to expand and the screen to refresh. Those of us that have experience even with the old Macs know that the response of the Macs is instant. This is critical to keep up with one's train of thought when doing complicated tasks - a pain with PCs, probably always will be behind the curve.

[jbsl]

My 10 year old Macintosh 6500 is still running 7.5.5 fine locally and on the net. Although it only has a 300MHz processor and 100MBytes of RAM it is way faster than my 2 year old Dell XP machine - way faster! A joy to use, been loving Macs since 1987. Been hating PCs since 82.

What memory is in the Dell? Are you running high speed internet on the Mac or dial up? Is the Mac using the newest OS(whatever the latest version of Mac OS system is) or is it the original OS.

Need more info to please.

[pauln]

The Dell is 256MBytes memory, CPU is just under 600MHz, running XP sp2 home addition. It is a dog.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Both PC and Mac are using high-speed cable to the Internet, Explorer 5 on the Mac, 7 on the PC.

The Mac is running fantastic on it's original OS from 97, OS 7.5.5 - stable and crash proof, very fast, totally virus proof, classic Mac behavior; the OS only occupies 15MB of memory, boots in 40 seconds from a cold start. Ever wonder why you don't need to defrag Mac hard drives? The OS does it automatically on the fly. For those that dont know, almost all the PC features came from the Mac 3.5 floppy, mouse, the graphical interface and windows, scroll bars, menus, etc. Mac had the LaserWriter years before HP made the LaserJet. The MS Office applications Excel, Word, PowerPoint were all developed on the Mac years before the PC. Music playback, Mac first. TV reception and editing, Mac first (back 20 years ago). The little trash can icon (Windows calls it the Recycle Bin); present in the Mac back in 85 when PCs still only held 640K RAM and Macs were already 32 bit. SCSI; Mac first. I was on the Internet in the late 80s with my Mac SE when PCs were still clueless running DOS. All Macs came with bulletproof networking built in (true plug and play).

Actually, back in '97 the Mac 6500 was the fastest personal computer available - first to hit the 300MHz rate. The 6500 has built-in floppy (reads and writes Mac and PC formats), Zip drive for archiving and backup (reads and writes Mac and PC formats), and CD. I have a spare set of floppy drive, Zip drive, CD drive, hard drive, mother board, spare memory, and power supply cannibalized from a second 6500 stowed away to keep my Mac 6500 running indefinitely.

You can find them and similar old Macs in operating condition on ebay for $50 and less. There are quite a few web sites that cater to the old Macs for those of us who love them. Now that 99% of all computing use by consumers is Internet related, the fundamental requirements needed are little and the real benefit is the user interface -especially the speed of response. I imagine I will use and hate more PCs in the future (in the workplace), but my gorgeous Mac 6500 is forever. I even saved the chassis covers (top, sides, back, and front face sections) from the cannibalized spare in the event my Mac suffers some accident that mars its appearance...

I like old things that were well designed and still work; especially when they work better than the current crop 'o crap being purveyed on ignorant consumers (big cars, bad amps, slow computers, poor music, silly coffee, inane TV, and goofy fashions, etc.).

Steve Jobs for President!

[el jopez]

Steve Jobs for President!

No thank you. There is enough arrogance on Capitol Hill and adding Jobs will only make it worse. Not that I care for either man, Gates last month did make a comment about Apple that is true to form:

You can go through and look at who showed any of these things first, if
you care about the facts. If you just want to say, "Steve Jobs invented
the world, and then the rest of us came along," that's fine.

In the end, who cares. [|-)]