sfogg Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Tom, Yup, maximizing SNR through the Behringer is important. The Behringer wants around 8v in/out. If people just hook up consumer level equipment and don't do any sort of attenuation on the output of the Behringer/amps with sensitive speaker then they are using very little of the available resolution. A side bonus of the attenuation is it attenuates any noise from the chain ahead of the amp. There is no difference in noise at all right up against the speakers in my very quiet room with the Behringer on/off. "The DACs on the Behringer are a good make (and probably better than what most have at home)." Note to Dean, I think the DACs in the Behringer are what you had in the DC-2. If not the exact same model definitely same manufacturer and of a close series. "Second, the ability get a fairly steepish filter with the Behringer is big plus. " By itself it will go to 48dB/octave. When combined with the parametric EQ you can go much much sharper. I'm at around 210dB/octave for the first 35dB or so then eight order from there for my crossover for example. The parametric EQ is also of course a big bonus compared to passives as it can be used to deal with bass issues in the room. "I guess what I am suggesting is that the Behringer (if set up properly) is a great value (performance / cost) and you do not need to break the bank when buying a second amp." Another possibility that someone with a single source might consider is something like one of the Panasonic digital receivers which are said to sound good. They have basically a 6 (or 8) channel analog input into them. That could be used behind the Behringer for all channels. That would give the advantage of being able to always run full scale in/out of the Behringer (no volume control ahead of the crossover) and then just use the main volume control in the Panny as the system volume control. The individual speaker trims could be used to match driver levels. If one wanted to get really tricky they would mod the Behringers for digital ouputs (would not be terribly hard) and mod the Panny for direct digital in for those 6 channels. With a digital source everything would stay digital right through the amps. However, if one sets up the signals in/out of the Behringer well they will work fine with a pre-amp ahead of them too. Shawn P.S. The other advantage for Dean is he could go hog wild trying different crossover slopes in his system. If he has a laptop he could switch between all the different slopes from his chair while listening to music. P.P.S. The other disadvantage for Dean is he could go hog wild trying different crossover slopes in his system. If he has a laptop he could switch between the different slopes from his chair while listening to music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Thanks for the well thought out post Tom, and I'm sure Shawn appreciates it too since you probably just saved him a lot of key strokes. Richard, the bloom will be gone, replaced by the sound of sandpaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Damn, so much for saving Shawn keystrokes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 "Richard, the bloom will be gone, replaced by the sound of sandpaper." Better then the sound of capacitors.... even glass ones.... Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 I knew what P.P.S. was going to say before I finished reading P.S. Better then the sound of capacitors.... even glass ones... I have a real hard time believing that. You gonna rebuild my Behringer for me using those cool boards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 "I knew what P.P.S. was going to say before I finished reading P.S." LOL.... it is true though.... one could drive themselves mad with this much control. They also gain far more rope to hang themselves with. "I have a real hard time believing that." Why? You remove all the reactive components between the amp and the driver which muck up the interface between the amp and the driver. You remove any and all attenuation needed between amp(s) and driver(s) for maximum damping and what in the end sort of acts like more 'wattage' then you had using the same amp feeding a passive crossover. You have no worries whatsoever about crossover points shifting with power level or with different drivers. You add the ability to time align the system which the designer of the system feels is important. You add the ability to reduce room induced bass peaks that could *easily* be +10dB or higher. You add the ability to tweak the system pretty much however you feel fit to your own tastes. "You gonna rebuild my Behringer for me using those cool boards?" Sure. If you were going to do it I'd really only look at the output board. The different PS/clock wouldn't be terribly interesting at least not to me, YMMV. If you do get a board be sure it keeps the hard muting at on/off or you could end up with damaging turn on/off transients which could damage a driver. The stock DCX has the muting. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 If you do get a board be sure it keeps the hard muting at on/off or you could end up with damaging turn on/off transients which could damage a driver. I could use a couple of capacitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 This might be the better way for me to go. Start with base unit, then go ga-ga with the mods. Then push the whole deal with a couple of crappy chip amps. Yeah, digital EQ, digital delay, cheap digital amps. That's the audiophile route! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 "I could use a couple of capacitors. " Better be glass capacitors. Realistically though that might not be enough. Older Behringers like the Behringer FBD had *NASTY* transients. I used one to EQ my subs years ago. They were so nasty that they made me fear for my woofers, I left the thing on all the time and that was with it only connected to the subs. You won't be putting capacitors between your amps and woofers I presume...... if you do you will make the Jubs sound like LaScalas. Also.... remember... a transient can have loads of HF noise in it too which a capacitor won't help with either. If you leave the thing on all the time the muting is less important. But I still feel much better with it in place. Would *seriously* tick me off if I ended up going through $350+ worth of diaphragms just by turning off a component out of order. Even if it didn't damage anything hearing that burst of noise would get old.... Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyboy Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 What do jubilees look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 What do jubilees look like? Look at the avatar for DeanG above. Seti's avatar has a pic of one as well, and there are numerous threads on the subject. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 There are a couple Jubilee pics here http://picasaweb.google.com/iain42/AudioHistoryPics you may have to scroll down abit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowntnbkr Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Coytee, Thanks for posting this, it looks as though I am going to be a new owner of some very nice Khorns!!!!!! I will have to sell my Lascala's, Cornwalls and Heresy's, but that still leaves me with my RF-83's which I absolutely love and my Altec model 14's and of course KHORNS!!!!!!!!! We just have to put this together which should be easy, heck we are practically neighbors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 Congrats to you Sam! [Y] Just be sure you show up & nab the Khorns WITHOUT hearing the Jubilees...lest you change your mind and wait to save up a few more pennies!!! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 It's pretty big jump in dollars from used Klipschorns to new Jubilees Richard. I was telling BEC that I've got my kids eating dog food. Bob's response: "That's not so bad, stuffs pretty good actually." Says he was grocery shopping with his wife and saw a great deal on canned tuna. She told him it was cat food. "Same stuff isn't it?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Really nice write-up by Bob. I have yet to hear these speakers but am now very intrigued by them. Will there be a pair in Indy this year? If they were angled in a corner how much room would they take up? I would need to know how much along the back wall and how much along the side wall, in addition to how far out in the room (back to front) they would be. The reason I ask is they would have to clear my wall units that I will not be getting rid of. Here is basically what I am talking about... You'll notice I have the La Scala's nestled in there now, and they are only 24" wide I believe. I am going to be putting a wood floor down soon in this room, and would have the ability to slide the units toward the open area about another 6 - 10 inches, but that is probably all. This was the main reason I was not able to buy Dean's Khorns because I needed the false corners (open on one side). Not sure if these would fit either. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 Mike, I've done it for others so I SHOULD know the numbers (and I don't [:$]) If you'd like to either give me a phone call tonight (I'm leaving town for several days tomorrow morning), I'll be happy to give you exact numbers while you're on the phone so we can be sure you've got the right numbers. They SHOULD be smaller than Dean's Khorns & false corners. Had you had Khorns in the location then the answer is easy... it's basically a swap. These are a tad wider though because of the finished flair. If you want to talk tonight & get some numbers (although I guess the forum should have the numbers for the 3-way version with dimensions??) I expect to be home & done walking the dogs by 6:30. Anytime after that would work. 865-988-8555 As I reflect...I even already have a tape measure sitting next to them for when I measured their overall height for Dean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 The Jubilee is 41.5" wide and 24.5 inches deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Hi Richard, What I would basically need to know is if they are pushed back in the corner, how much room would I need along the backwall so that a wall unit that is 18" deep wouldn't make contact with the speaker. I'm not concerned with the sidewall, but as you can see I have a window there that might be blocked partially. Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 Given what I see there, you're GONNA block that window to some degree. What I can do when I get home (presuming Roy's numbers don't help you) is shove one of mine back into a corner and see how far out the wall it goes. My guess is it will end up protruding less into your room than the LaScalas do. (I know you want the width, not depth) I've attached a pic which I know you've probably seen before. Those are 12" logs so maybe that will give some perspective. Today, I've got mine pulled ~10" from the wall and firing more directly into the room. I've got a big fat heavy electrical plug in a socket that mandates ONE of the speakers be jacked around a bit. I simply jacked the other one around so it would be more symmetrical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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