pauln Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Just wondering if others notice a difference and have thoughts on why... I don't listen to CDs in the home but I have heard them in cars - seems to me that the exact repeatable reproduction takes some of the excitement and tension out of the music. Playing records to me seems to have more of a live event feeling because there is a subtle tension - something could go wrong. I mean, the playing of a record has a strong production component vs a reproduction component for CDs... does that make sense? The adjustments, matching of parts, cleaning, balancing, aligning, and listening - active listening to hear if it is set up well and performing right... with CDs its the convenience of precise reproduction - with records there is more active involvement assessing the production aspect. Anyone feel this or am I just losing it on a rainy Wednesday (too much thunder to hear my SETs)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Every now and then but you're probably just losing it.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 I agree with Oldtimer, it's the latter, you're just losing it. Other things are at work with vinyl besides excitement over whether something is going to go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 I basically agree with you. I have always believed that chopping up music into teeny-weeny bits and then reassembling them was a tough way to keep the realism, aliveness, electricity, and intimacy of performance. With analog, music sounds and comes across similarly to how it sounds live in performance venues, and that's my standard. I had a heckuva time finding a satisfactory CD player, being steeped in analog, as even supposedly good CDPs seemed grainy and a step away from the real thing. So, I delayed getting one for several years until I started finding some that seemed to work in my system. Unfortuately, finding a CD player that matches up with analog and musical auditory memory is not only difficult -- it can be a crapshoot in some individual systerms. Moreover, learning to listen to digital went slowly for me in terms of picking up on its disadvantages, and I went through 3 or 4 players before finally settling on what I have now. I like Boomac's Eastern Electric, Allan really likes his BAT, and I like my Wadia, but I don't know that these experiences are replicable or typical. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted March 14, 2007 Author Share Posted March 14, 2007 Every record is a road trip. Every CD is a movie of a road trip. Not buying it, huh? OK, hope this storm blows over soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 That would depend on who was wearing it. I think I need to lie down now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 OOOOoooooo...MAXXXXXX. Ahem. No doubt you have something there for many audioholics. It is partially true for me. In the old days, going to some non-audiophiles house and fixing their TT was a rush like you get today from fixing someones computer. Made you special... OTOH, it is still about the music to me, and records still account for over a 100 years of performances, the majority of which will not be available through any other technology for decades, assuming they survive. That is the PRIMARY reason I play records...and all of them, including 78's, 45's or wherever the music is found. Need to add here to you personally: Sorry about the delay in assuring you the "Rhapsody in Blue" made it in safely. Sorry I missed you...we took the kids to Galveston that day. Anyway, it IS a find. I had no idea anyone at that date (late 40's), ESPECIALLY Kostelanetz, was playing the original score. I've not had time to spend quality time with it as my next days off don't start until Sunday, but I intend to do just that and give a close comparison to the 12:00 flat, Gershwin/Paul Whiteman band version. I'll report... Regards,Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted March 14, 2007 Author Share Posted March 14, 2007 Thanks, Dave - I was hoping you would be interested in that. It did strike me as something special. What did you think of the Houston newspaper article about the 78 collectors, and the 1930's paper listing all the hot tunes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Every record is a road trip. Every CD is a movie of a road trip. Not buying it, huh? OK, hope this storm blows over soon... No sir, not buying that at all. The actual performance is the road trip. The analogy I sometimes use is LP = film, CD = videotape. In lots of ways videotape is more accurate, but most people (I think) enjoy film more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Actually, I intend to comment on those bits as well. I think the main point to be gleaned about the 78 collectors is cautionary...the rush is NOT on yet, but as in all such things it WILL come. I hate to think about how many comics I tossed away as a kid that are worht $$$$$. I'd have none of them now except my grandmother stuck a stack about a foot high in a box I re-possessed about 20 years ago at her estate sale. First edition "Supergirl" in there as well as a few other goodies. There will be a day when people remember with pain the boxes of old shellac they tossed out. Save yer old wax, boys, the table will turn again... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Good call Paul, we hear in analog therefore analog is closer to actual music for me and I still prefer record to CD at home any day over the dead quite reassembled (what Larry said) bits off the (for lack of better term) sterile sounding laser datastream! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 How would one's system change by switching from CDs and SS to vinyl and tubes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Isn't this another of those never ending debates of what's better ? Wouldn't a more accurate question be, What is a more user friendly way of listening to music, CD's or Vinyl ? Does it really matter that much what someone else thinks is a better way to present Music.......Just listen to the music....in the end it's all reproduction anyway, nothing beats the sound of Real Music performed LIVE...anyway................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Pauln knows personally where my heart is. There are sufficient racks of LPs and other records to protect one from a significant blast wave. Having said that, there are areas where vinyl does not and cannot compete. First, it is a highly dynamically compressed format. It's a dirty little secret rarely discussed, but, there it is. What is it you miss? Well, while talking about music is like listening about painting, I'll make an effort describe one thing and next time Paul is over I'll demonstrate. A few years ago I was most privileged to be able to record Stuart Wayne Foster in a piano recording at the Church of the Annunciation in Lewisville, Texas. Stuart was winner of the first Dallas International Organ Competition. Annunciation has some of the finest acoustics I've ever had the pleasure to experience. Between the artist and the setting, quite an opportunity and challenge. I choose to mike the piano from almost inside and equidistant from all the strings with my 1936 vintage RCA ribbon mike. It's one of the finest ever designed and FAST. I place a second mike 90 degrees to it and a couple of feet from the end of the instrument. The idea was to create an image with some dimension, but not one of those 20' wide piano images one often gets from some of the more conventional piano mike plans. To cut to the chase, the result was an extraordinary recording with detailing that would never be apparent on an LP due to it's limited dynamic range. The final sound of the dampers coming off the strings at the end of his AWESOME rendition of "Clair de lune" sends shivers up the spine. I've had more than one person shed tears while listening. One golden ear wandered into the hall while it was playing. Afterwords, I asked him if he'd lost interest. Absolutely not, he replied. He said his test for piano recordings was to go outside the room and see if it sounded like a piano in the next room or a recording of a piano. In this case, he said it sounded like a piano. Every medium has its strengths and weaknesses. I love my analog...but I would not press that recording into an LP even if I could. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 I hear what you are saying Dave but I have Texas Flood on CD and I have it on vinyl and you can see my gears in my sig and I much prefer the LP to the CD and I guess some do and some don't. OB has it all right anyway, just listen and enjoy regardless of transport[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted March 14, 2007 Author Share Posted March 14, 2007 I not trying to compare the record to the CD in terms of audio quality - I'm asking about the existence of a subjective difference that is not based on the sound so much as what might be termed the anticipation of risk stemming from the source - the CD being risk free since it always outputs the exact same signal, and the record which is subject to all kinds of environmental/geometrical/mechanical/electrical disturbances or variations that may influence the actual sound differently on different playings. What I am asking is, do you pay more attention to the record because of the possibility of less than perfect reproduction? If so, could this additional attention influence or heighten your level of enjoyment? Do you hear records more carefully than CDs? Does the same idea extend to tubes vs SS? Part of the execution of a musical piece live is the tension that something could go wrong... it makes you listen more intently because of the unknown. When one uses tubes and records its a little exciting and risky because there is no sure lock that the reproduction will be presisly and exactly repeatable as with CD and SS... Its not "do they sound different", but "do you listen to them differently"? Thanks for everyones' thoughts - It has hailed twice and now the Sun is out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 I'll deal directly with your original point here, Paul. NO, I do not like the tension of something going wrong. Probably why I don't do NASCAR [] Example: I rarely can enjoy a second-tier symphony concert when there is something on the program calling for big, loud, French horns. French horn players who can hit a note loud, in tune, and synchronized don't play for second tier orchestras and the pain I feel when they go SSPUUHHLLAATTT! instead of TAAAA! is unspeakable. As to the other matter, I don't think I'd be terribly concerned about hearing the last vibrations before the dampners clamped after 17 malt liquors in an Austin bar listening to Texas Flood either. Completely different issue. Dynamics there are usually loud, to godhelpme. Regards, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 I heard you loud and clear the first time. I do agree that I will usually listen more closely to vinyl than a cd, but not because of the risk, but because each play will degrade the recording no matter how little until there may come a time that the music is not all there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Funny you mention the 17 malteds Dave as the last time I saw Stevie RIP was at the Frank Erwin Center some years back after throwing back about 12 20oz pints at the Maggie Mae's! (Ah to be young again!) I guess old ears die hard then again it all may just be my hard head[] I feel as strongly about vinyl replay as some do about live to reproduced and as OB said nothing beats live period[8] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 I've had a $5k CD player w/PS for the last couple of months, and have played 2 CD's on it. I lose interest in CD's real quick... not sure why. I think they are less involving. Don't get me wrong. I have some that sound great... just don't bother with them. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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