How long are speakers good for?

[BeeMan458]

Hi Guys.

First post here.

Two questions:

1. How long are speakers good for? (Do they age and lose their ability to transmit sound clearly or are they a forever item?)

2. By upgrading the center channel to a RC-64, can I expect center channel dialogue to be easier for my and my wife's aging ears to understand? I'm 54. Her age, (diplomacy) shall remain unstated. []

Looking to upgrade my speakers. For mains, I have ten year old Epic
CF-3's and a KV-4 for the center. Even with the center channel cranked
up 6db so as to offset the difference in speaker efficiency via menu driven speaker setup in the receiver, the center channel dialogue can still be a
bit difficult to understand. The receiver is a three year old Marantz
SR-8200, DVD player is a Marantz DV-6200; also three years of age.
System is dialed in with a digital Radio Shack sound pressure meter. System settings and sound pressure levels were checked just a few days ago. I
have the speakers set to large and the bass rolled off to the two 12" subs at
80Hz. I'm looking to replace the current KV-4 center channel, with a
RC-64 and later upgrade the rear KSP-56 surrounds with a pair of RS-62's. I'd like to be able to keep the Epic CF-3's with their ten inch woofers. [H] The sound, when set to multi-channel stereo, seems to come through fine for TV viewing purposes.

For the most part I'd consider our hearing to be normal as to day-to-day situations; my wife's, as always, is better than mine, ("I heard that.") The spoken part of a Dolby Digital (5.1) sound track can seem to her, to be a bit muffled at times, yet the rest of the track; music, vehicles, echoes, surround, clinking glasses, background helicopter sounds or bullet casings clinking on the ground, seem to come through just fine. I'm happy to change out the center speaker and replace it with a RC-64, I just don't want to be throwing good money away if it's not going supply a solution.

Thoughts or suggestions?

TIA.

Thomas

[Frzninvt]

Firstly, you have a killer combo right now and I would not change it. If anything have the aging capacitors in the crossover networks upgraded to improve the high end performance. The CF-3's, KV-4, and KSP-S6's are fabulous and I personally think that you would be downgrading going to the Reference Series. The RC-64 will stick out like a sore thumb timbre wise from your CF-3's not the direction to go in. There are people right here on the forum that can do it for you. All of my networks have been refreshed in one way or another, and it improved things greatly.

I had a pair of 1962 Klipsch Cornwalls that were all original, they still sounded great but the upgraded parts in the aging crossover networks really made them shine. So even after 40 years the Corn's still had it in them!

You are not alone with having trouble hearing the dialogue in movies, even with a La Scala center channel sometimes the dialogue is weak to the point I am constantly having to ask "what did he say" it is how the movie soundtracks are mixed. I crank it up to hear the dialogue and once some action kicks in I am diving for the remote to turn the volume down. It is an issue with the DVD's and not your receiver and speaker system.

Hope this helps.

[TheEAR]

First only diamonds are forever.

Yes speakers do age as parts become dry and frail. Sourrounds can crack,rott and lose their initial qualities. Crossover components degrade with time. A cheap pair of speakers can last 15-20 years,a good pair of speakers in acontrolled environement can last 50-60 years. At one point there will be parts to replace,no matter how much care was used.\

Never place speakers in direct sunlight or near heaters or ...in a room where humidity is high. This will speed up deterioration in a big way.

[BeeMan458]

It's become a bit distracting in that yes, I have to crank the volume in order to hear the dialogue and then, as stated, scramble for the remote to turn the volume down during action sequences. I don't remember this being a problem several years ago. Maybe as suggested, it's a Dolby Digital thing and not my aging ears. [8-|]

I figure that after some ten years of solid, almost daily use in regard to the speakers (they've been out of the sun and high humidity), that something might have aged and now be in need of service. Maybe as suggested, the caps are worn and in need of replacement so the KV-4 has lost it's punch due to these worn capacitors. Hmmmmmm!

[pauln]

In the old days movie scores and much else was compressed to solve this problem - it made it possible to enjoy a movie without having to ride the volume control; in fact the circut was called Automatic Level Control (ALC) in televisions. The modern penchant for all things having a super wide dynamic range means getting the dialog up to normal level puts the explosions, gunshots, sirens, car crashes, and general mayheim up to their normal level - which is too loud. With the loud noises set to a tolerable level the dialog is too low. Maybe someone will market a little box to reduce the dynamic range back down to ordinary human levels of movie enjoyment.

[Doc Robin]

Welcome to the Forum. Hang around there are a lot of good people around here with answers to most of the questions you will have. Later Bill

[Arky]

Good post pauln.

[BeeMan458]

"Welcome to the Forum. "

Thanks for the thoughtful thought.

I'm just stopping by long enough to see if I can take advantage of "you folks" expertise in matters of this kind. When I get some free time, I'm going sit down and custom up my system and ignore the rules. I already have the receiver manual and sound pressure meter at the ready, now some time when the wife's not using the system and I'm available.

I'll adjust the speakers, surrounds and centers, to their deficiencies by boosting the db in receiver menu by an appropriate amount; six plus db.

The recommendation of having the crossovers replaced is intriguing but may be more hassle then it's worth and it'll be more efficent to simply replace the center channel (don't thing the timbre will be a problem in this case as the center channel isn't neutral and has a deeper pink noise hiss) and the RC-64 and RS-62 surrounds (new caps), digs deeper and flies higher as well as being a few db more efficient will be a better match for the Epic CF-3's that I'm running for mains with their 100db efficiency.

Can anybody suggest who to contact in order to get the crossover networks replaced? That would be kind.

Knowing that the DVD movie sound tract mixing pretty much sucks as to matters of this kind has been very encouraging and gave me the idea of custom setting speaker settings as opposed to doing a matched sound pressure setting. This is a good thing.

Look forward to any additional input in regard to the original question of how long are speakers good for and the reply about getting the networks replaced/rebuilt.

Thanks all!

[wuzzzer]

One thing you might check in to is if your DVD player or receiver have some type of sound setting where it will boost the level of lower dialogue and sound. My Oppo will do that, although I have never used it since I have a 2 channel system. It does take away some of the dynamics of sound, but it does make movies such as Star Wars III that has very quiet talking scenes coupled with incredibly loud action scenes easier to watch especially when you don't want to have to have the volume cranked.

[Islander]

Many DVD players and AV receivers have a "night" mode that reduces the dynamic range for late-night listening, so you can hear the dialogue without the sound effects being disturbingly loud.

Movie viewers and audiophiles wanted realistic dynamics, and now that we have them, some grumble that it's too loud. I'm happier with having realistic dynamics on the sound track, so I can listen to it as is, or dynamically reduced if the situation calls for it. I occasionally use the night mode late in the evening, for both music and movies. It's a useful feature.

As for speakers, the cones generally last indefinitely, but the foam surrounds are only good for 15-20 years. The newer rubber surrounds may last longer. With Klipsch speakers, the Heritage ones at least, the woofer has a pleated surround that's rumoured to last 30 years or more. After 20 years or so, the caps will no longer be at their best and should be replaced. Replacing the 32-year-old caps in my La Scalas immediately improved the clarity of the sound.

The compression drivers used in Heritage might want their diaphagms replaced eventually, but I'm not sure how long those parts last.

[BeeMan458]

Thanks for the though Wuzzzer. The dynamics are too much for the neighbors to handle. Living in a duplex, our wall is their kitchen and when cranked loud enough for the center channel dialogue, when the action starts, it blows our neighbors away. Not very neighborly but you may be on to something as some can't deal with the full force of the soundtrack dynamics. Excellent point.

I do have a sound attenuation setting (feature) for nighttime listening; something to consider when I have time to again work on sound pressure settings.

Hmmmmm!

Thanks for the age report Pat (Islander).

I literally, haven't had the time to redial in the system but the info stream you guys are sharing is being helpful as the more insight I have, the more flexible I become to the matter which I posted to.

[colterphoto1]

I have 1963 Cornwalls with original drivers and they work great.

The night mode as mentioned, will compress the sound somewhat and make the dialog:explosion ratio a bit less extreme.

Welcome to the Madness

[BeeMan458]

"Welcome to the Madness"

Thanks! I notice from recent headings, the community extends further than just Klipsch. Very cool.

[Arky]

Thanks! I notice from recent headings, the community extends further than just Klipsch. Very cool.

That is the special thing about this place & why it's addictive.