strictlylespaul Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Hi All - looking for some info... I've been enjoying a pair of Maggie MG12/1.6's for the past six or seven years. For the first couple of years with a Rotel 200wpc amp, and for the last few years with a Cary 40/80wpc integrated. I love the Cary/Maggie combo, especially in my smallish space (12x16x8.) But lately I've had the jones to go back to box speakers - I miss the impact, dynamics, and the volume - but I don't want to give up the Cary - so efficient speakers are probably a must. So, my questions are - are the La Scala's too big for my room (the 1.6's aren't, and they're not small speakers) and - will 40 watts triode drive La Scala's to high double-digit SPL's? Of course, I'd like to hear from anyone who's driving La Scala's with tubes in the 50wpc range. thanks very much, strictly Lat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 in NYC 12X16X8 is not small. I ran LaScala's, cornwalls, heresy's and khorns in rooms smaller, and with 50 wpc - 130 wpc tube amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 What kind of music do you listen to? Any chance of a larger or different room for listening? 8x16x12 isn't exactly ideal...I suppose I could crank through the numbers if you wanna know what you might be up against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strictlylespaul Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Music? Mostly rock now. I was into classical, jazz & vocals when I picked up the Maggies. It's not a great room, but the only one I'm likely to be able to use ;-) No need to crank through the numbers, though I appreciate it. The Cary will drive the Maggies fine with 40wpc - and I have 80wpc ultralinear at my diposal as well. I'm just looking for someone that has a similar set up. thanks, strictly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I think the calculations Dr Who was thinking of have to do with the room dimensions and low frequency modes... 8 is half of 16, and 12 is 1.5 of 8 and 3/4 of 16... these ratios will tend to reinforce particular frequencies and the room response could be a problem and might need some treatments. You might perform the calculations yourself or find a room calculator in the internet. It will help identify the frequencies to deal with for your room. La Scalas will provide high double digit SPLs effortlessly with every amp in existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Have you had the chance to hear lascalas? I find them a bit lacking in the bass for rock and would probably lean towards the cornwall instead. Are you purchasing new or used? The Lascala2 is much more forgiving than the older versions. How far back will you be sitting from the speakers? Ideally you should be 10x the interdriver spacing. So on a lascala you're about 2 feet from the middle of the bass bin to the middle of the tweeter....putting you 20 feet back for ideal. You can get away with closer - I think the closest I've enjoyed is 13 feet, but the sound doesn't meld perfectly. I would probably recommend a Lascala over a Heresy though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 "you should be 10x the interdriver spacing. So on a lascala you're about 2 feet from the middle of the bass bin to the middle of the tweeter....putting you 20 feet back for ideal. You can get away with closer - I think the closest I've enjoyed is 13 feet, but the sound doesn't meld perfectly." I have a set in a 16X14X8 room and they sound fine....even on the short wall. If you want more bass from a LaScala....simple....put a K-45 driver in place of the K-33 or K-43....no mystery here mine are in a room above ground with 10inch concreate walls......if I want to piss the neighborhood off....can do easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I have a set in a 16X14X8 room and they sound fine....even on the short wall.No doubt, but they also aren't going to sound their best there either which is all I was trying to say.If you want more bass from a LaScala....simple....put a K-45 driver in place of the K-33 or K-43....no mystery hereYou got any T/S for that driver? Or know what speaker it comes from? I have a hard time believing any Klipsch 15" digs lower than the K33. MaxSPL is a completely different thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 "You got any T/S for that driver? Or know what speaker it comes from? I have a hard time believing any Klipsch 15" digs lower than the K33. MaxSPL is a completely different thing." My home probally lies in a hyperspace vortex....which allows this to work.....had someone did the math on it...I probally would not have done it....no can't say that....I would have done it anyway. I don't think the LaScala cab really makes optimal use of a K-33's slightly lower functional range. Isn't the cab really tuned to 53hz or somewhere in that range? I wouldn't put a k-45 in a cornwall or a khorn because those cabs can make use of the K-33's lower functional range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 The lascala bass bin is essentially a 70Hz horn and you really can't expect output below the Fc of any horn. I've heard it described that the extra extension we do see is essentially the direct-radiating behavior of the driver. In other words, the horn is boosting the output above 70Hz by about 7dB (calling the K33 a 97dB driver and comparing to the 104dB sensitivity of the lascala). Just about every lascala I measure is 6dB down from 50-90Hz. To claim that a driver will exceed the K33's bass performance is to say that it's got some random peak in that bottom octave, or somehow digs lower in the same sized cabinet. The K33 is the only Klipsch 15" driver I know of that can work well in a sealed cabinet. Everything else (especially the pro line) are designed to be ported, which means the Q's are all off whack for use in sealed systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 . "The K33 is the only Klipsch 15" driver I know of that can work well in a sealed cabinet. Everything else (especially the pro line) are designed to be ported, which means the Q's are all off whack for use in sealed systems." thats the key point....." I know of "....the K-43 has been used in the LaScala cab (with out a port) trading off the unused lower functional range of the K-33 for more power handling.....the power handling comes from the larger voice coil that handles more power...larger voice coil has a cost penalty of a stiffer assembly.......point being that you are assuming that the K-33's lower functional range is actually being used in a LaScala....even after pointing out the LaScala's tuning range. The K-45 is an even stiffer driver...more power handling...does not dig as low as a k-33 or k-43...but in a LaScala cab...does not need to. I'm not talking about a minor subjective difference here...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 How far back will you be sitting from the speakers? Ideally you should be 10x the interdriver spacing. So on a lascala you're about 2 feet from the middle of the bass bin to the middle of the tweeter....putting you 20 feet back for ideal. You can get away with closer - I think the closest I've enjoyed is 13 feet, but the sound doesn't meld perfectly. I would probably recommend a Lascala over a Heresy though... Doc, that sounds really far away, and La Scalas are not tall speakers. Many modern high-end speakers are 5 or 6 feet tall. Does that imply that the listener should be 30 or 40 feet away for best results? I'm not scoffing at what you say, it just sounds like most home audio speakers would not be at their best in a typical home. My Scalas are about 13 feet away and my ears are about level with the tweeters. Maybe I'll try sitting a bit behind the sofa and see if I can hear a difference. But then the sofa would mess up the sound. It never ends... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 I'm not totally confident on how the interdriver spacing thing works out, but I know it's not directly related to size of the cabinet. I remember Mark Blanchard mentioning the RF-83 doesn't fully sum until 18 feet or so? (he mentioned it after hearing about Jay with a pair in his dorm). The middle of that bottom woofer is about 20 inches from the middle of the tweeter? I know when you drag a pair of lascalas outside that you gotta get about 30 feet back where there is a threshold where it just clicks into place. It's a pretty dramatic change and happens pretty fast too. Definitely try it outside if you get the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strictlylespaul Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 Thanks for the responses! I heard the La Scala many years ago, but they were in a much larger space - at the time they seemed lifelike - you were in the recording space with the musicians. Specs are confusing to me - my MG1.6's are rated at 40Hz, but due to their placement (and mine) I get plenty of bass reinforcement - I'm running the amp hard though. I read the specs on the La Scala, and reviews as well - it's true the bass might be an issue. Regarding the spce - I'm running into the same issue with the 1.6 - I'm sitting about ten ft away - because of the need to the place the speakers 2-3 ft from the back and side walls. Thanks again for the help - maybe I should look at something a bit smaller... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 The Cary and Lascala's should be a wonderful combo I say go for it. Start with them burried in the corners toed in to fire just outside your ears sitted in the sweet spot then slowly inch them out paying attention to bass response and overall tone. Get the best you can out of them then look to room treatments and crossover upgrades (not sure what year Lascala's your looking at). Folks can speculate about the problems you may or may not have all they like but until you have the system setup and tuned the best it can do discussing short comings is a huge waste of time. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 What Craig said. The lascala bass bin is essentially a 70Hz horn and you really can't expect output below the Fc of any horn. Sure you can, YOU PUT IT IN A CORNER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Lat, Your Cary should drive the La Scalas to 120 dB peaks at 1 meter. It has plenty of power for your room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paully Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 40 watts? Good heavens. I have been running 90 db effecient 4 ohm speakers with 25 watts and my buddy has 92 db effecient speakers with only a moderately good impedance curve using 3.5 watts and he doesn't have any problems. It will be more about synergy between the two amps than any sort of power issue. Paul Joppa (a name you probably don't know but he knows what he is talking about) thinks that 93 db is about as low as you want to go for 8 watts. From my experience, given iy id limited in the Klipsch range until recently but not limited in terms of tubes over the years, 40 watts is overkill. You will get all sorts of types here though in terms of what they think you need in terms of power but as one poster noted, the math is in your favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpines Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 This SPL calculator might help you somewhat. http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Description Sound Level Example Sound Intensity barely audible0 dBThreshold of hearing0.000000000001 W/m2 10 dBRustling leaf0.00000000001 W/m2 very quiet20 dBQuiet room0.0000000001 W/m2 30 dBSoft whisper0.000000001 W/m2 quiet40 dBQuiet library0.00000001 W/m2 50 dBAverage home0.0000001 W/m2 moderately loud60 dBOrdinary conversation, Light traffic0.000001 W/m2 70 dBVacuum cleaner, Heavy traffic0.00001 W/m2 very loud80 dBGarbage disposal0.0001 W/m2 90 dBDiesel truck (10 m away)0.001 W/m2 uncomfortably loud100 dBNewspaper press0.01 W/m2 110 dBJet flyover at 300 m0.1 W/m2 painful120 dBThreshold of pain, Thunderclap1 W/m2 Picky's room with it cranked up? Priceless! hehehehehe Just be careful there too! Especially with little kids.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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