Professor Thump Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 This is an exciting time at Klipsch as some of you know! All the elves at Klipsch are working in high gear polishing the design on Palladium and Icon speakers and of course our NEW HEADPHONES! Hey we even have a new category on the Forum as of today for Headphone discussions. As a speaker engineer for 20 years it has been an exciting change now that I have had the chance to work with a dynamic group of people making IE headphones. We are all using music in a different fashion than we did years prior. More people are on the go or stuck in places where they don't want to be because of the noise, but now they can enjoy their own environment with MP3 players and high performance headphones. We have come to the age of ultimate mobile audio designs in all senses and headphones are no exception to this category. Comparing balanced armatures to moving coil transducers in headphones is similar to the comparison of what Compact Discs have done for previous vinyl users. In our quest for that optimum design I am constantly wondering what people need in IE applications that would improve their musical experience, but more importantly I am wondering what people don't like about headphones that ruin their IE experience. So I would like to take this opportunity to have YOU, our loyal Klipsch family of users, tell us what bugs you about headphones. What could be better for that Ultimum User Experience and how can Klipsch help you achieve that level of musical extasy you have been looking for. Why are most of the current IE design in the industry uncomfortable for you? Why do you get irritated with certain design features? What makes your soul bleed for a better product? Tell us how we can make the ultimate IEM for your personal and professional needs... So why don't you stick it in your ear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhendrix Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Comfort, sonic accuracy, and noise isolation are my top three in equal order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customsteve01 Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Its really hard just to choise one from your list. I do believe that how thay sound would be #1 but alot if not all of your other choices would come into play while making a disision to buy. For me I would really like to see Klipsch offer a over the ear, active noise cancelation headphone. I really enjoy using this style while flying. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerolW Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 I'll go along with customsteve about over the ear phones. I don't like earbuds at all. #1 for me is comfort, then sound. But an earbud is not even a choice for me. jerol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 I'll go along with customsteve about over the ear phones. I don't like earbuds at all. #1 for me is comfort, then sound. But an earbud is not even a choice for me. jerol Interesting Jerol, I appreciate your comments. Why don't you like earbuds at all? I will tell you that in my case I am the opposite. It bugs me when my ears are hot from ear muff (circumaural) headphones. I also detest carrying a lot of luggage when I travel. You never know when you will find a good guitar deal and you need to carry it home in your other hand. This is what is so facinating about headphones. Eventhough loudspeakers are my favorites, headphones are much more personal to the user thus there is I believe a wider range of needs. Term for the day...Texas Headphones (TH) Texas Headphones to those in the Rock n Roll world are stage monitors for drummers. These TH's typically consist of a pair of 2 way 15's with 18" subs for their drum riser. Just ask Phil Collins. Colter's got a big pair of Texas Headphones now that he is packin with KP 600's! Why don't you stick it in your ear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 Here is a pair of Texas Headphones... Oh....sorry that is just a pair of Texans. Getting closer.... Cute and similar to a TH Here is 1/2 a TH Ahhhh... Nevermind Here is a hilarious yet appropriate picture from the head-fi forums... http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=261570&page=2&highlight=klipsch+earphones Thanks Mikeymad...[] The best I can do for finding Texas Headphones is picture of Phil Collins drum rig with near field monitors. As you can do the math...Concerts 5 nights a week at 135 dB peak average SPL @ 1 meter. Ouch!!! Do you hear that ringing? If you have any better TH pictures you can post them. Keep on thumping.....Just not this loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 What I dislike about headphones: As Mark said the hot feeling of headphones on or around your ears. For earbuds I hate having to pop my ears or repop them every so often Cords are a mess, always never in the right position. Too long, too short, why is it catching everything on myself and the surrounding areas.... d'oh it caught part of the chair and the wire got pulled out the speaker part, there goes my headphones I dislike that some foam tips are so resistant that it hurts your ear canals yet when they make tips too soft they fall out and do not get a good seal Earbuds like apple ipod ones are too big for my ear lobe so it really hurts after 10 or more minutes of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Johnnie Cochran might have said..."If the earphones don't fit...you won't like IT!"...the other things come in to play but if they aren't comfortable...who wants them???...I don't like Headphones becuase they are isolating and I tend to turn it up loud...destroying my hearing...I don't care for earphones because they are uncomfortable and pop out all the time...plus both usually sound bad (IMO)...the Klipsch Earphones I tried sounded GREAT and fit nicely (possibly aided by the leftover earwax of everyone else who tried them...[] ) Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Not really a big fan of headphones, I was quite impressed by the IE prototypes I was able to try at the Pilgrimage this summer. I cannot stand the hot head and sweat of the circumaural over the ear headphones. I also don't really like the on the ear type though they're not quite as hot but still get uncomfortable (I use Grado SR-60) several hours a week. I've not liked any in-ear models I've tried but in all fairness I've not tried anything other then real cheap models. When I was able to try the Klipsch prototypes, they were amazingly comfortable, especially the IMAGE prototype which is what I listened to the most and the Custom 1 prototype for a very short time. I couldn't bring myself to even try any of the other IE phones available as they just screamed ear torture. The IMAGE is so tiny it's barely noticeable other than the incredible sound. When I finally got around to trying the prototype for the Custom 1 (or 2) it was also surprisingly comfortable and sounded amazing. So for headphones, especially in ear comfort - they're not going to get much use if you can't stand to use them sonic accuracy - what's the point if it doesn't sound good?price - unfortunately, my resources are stretched pretty thin I've learned to tolerate my Grado SR 60s so any of the Custom models should be a great improvement. And the IMAGE are just unbelievably comfortable. Klipsch IE phones - stunning sound quality is expected and delivered Might have to save a while for the IMAGE or Custom 3 but the Custom 1 and 2 are much more affordable and far ahead of the alternatives in comfort and sound quality. Looking forward to sticking 'em in my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trager Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Sound quality, first and foremost (and for me, that's usually accuracy and neutrality over "fun factor"), then isolation, then comfort. Then maybe portability. In terms of the (many) in-ear phones I've tried, I'd say that other than the sound of the phone itself, the next big deciding factor tends to be the wire. The microphonics were the biggest reason I started looking for an alternative to my ER-4P, and the excessive length of that cable made it really inconvenient to use for portable use. The TF10P phones just didn't have good enough sound, and I didn't like the lack of isolation and form factor. Shure has a great product with the SE310 that is fairly comfortable (although their olive-style foamies occasionally irritated my ear, they are very convenient and easy to insert and remove), but I just didn't find that the sound quite fit me, and the wire is a little prone to microphonics, although I'm sure that wire will last for years. The Atrio M5s that I use now have a very supple wire and good memory wires that really do minimize microphonics when worn over-the-ear. Unfortunately, they have only so-so isolation for IEMs, which is why my search continues... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 Not really a big fan of headphones, I was quite impressed by the IE prototypes I was able to try at the Pilgrimage this summer..... When I was able to try the Klipsch prototypes, they were amazingly comfortable, especially the IMAGE prototype which is what I listened to the most and the Custom 1 prototype for a very short time. I couldn't bring myself to even try any of the other IE phones available as they just screamed ear torture. The IMAGE is so tiny it's barely noticeable other than the incredible sound. When I finally got around to trying the prototype for the Custom 1 (or 2) it was also surprisingly comfortable and sounded amazing.... Klipsch IE phones - stunning sound quality is expected and delivered Might have to save a while for the IMAGE or Custom 3 but the Custom 1 and 2 are much more affordable and far ahead of the alternatives in comfort and sound quality. Looking forward to sticking 'em in my ears. I want to clarify blsamuel's comments... At the Pilgrimage I set up about 20 headphone preamps with a common music source. This way every user could adjust volumes to their preference. Since we only had limited proto's at that time, I set out a lot of competitive headphones which were both IE and Circumaural. Evidently, Bsam didn't want to try the other models due to comfort issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerolW Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I don't like ear buds because I don't like anything in my ears except for my elbows. Seriously, I just don't like the way they feel. I prefer over or on the ear units. jerol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I don't like ear buds because I don't like anything in my ears except for my elbows. Seriously, I just don't like the way they feel. I prefer over or on the ear units. jerol Jerol, I don't like things in my ears either, not even my elbows. Give the Klipsch IE models a try though and you might be surprised. I know I was and am looking forward to sticking 'em in my ears. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 ... I want to clarify blsamuel's comments... At the Pilgrimage I set up about 20 headphone preamps with a common music source. This way every user could adjust volumes to their preference. Since we only had limited proto's at that time, I set out a lot of competitive headphones which were both IE and Circumaural. Evidently, Bsam didn't want to try the other models due to comfort issues. Professor Thump is correct. There was quite a few other models available including IE and Circumaural all of which appeared to be of high quality. I did try a few of the Circumaural models before trying the IMAGE prototype. No contest in my mind as the IMAGE sounded way better to me. The IMAGE proto was unbelievably comfortable. The other IE models didn't even look comfortable so I didn't try them. The Klipsch IE phones, especially the IMAGE just looked more comfortable to me. I've never been able to stand things that have to be squished or jammed into my ears. I'd had an ear infection about a week and a half to two weeks before the Pilgrimage so my ears were still pretty sensitive. Calm down folks, I had completed my antibiotics prior to the Pilgrimage and my ears were clean as no wax came out on the prototypes I tried. I also cleaned the protos very thoroughly when I was finished just to be sure and swabbed my ears out beforehand. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Really the only time I use headphones is when I'm in the studio and need to hear things that the studio monitors don't reveal. Mark's comments about ears getting hot inside the headphones got me to thinking about using IE's in the studio. It would take longer to take them in and out, but would they provide the same kinds of revealing sound? I didn't have a chance to listen in that manner during the demonstration so I'm kinda intrigued now. And all this talk about Texas Headphones....is Klipsch gonna be actively marketing to the professional musician with IE's for the stage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 KSM-2 15" 2-way system. Basically an industrial Cornwall on steroids in slant monitor configuration. Trey calls it a 'Drummer's Dream'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 I second Bill's choices Mark[] Would love to eval all 4 pair for you and report back here and at Head-Fi home of the enthusiast[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 Mike, We think the pro application is right down our alley. With my 8 years of experience at Electro Voice and 12 years of live sound, I would hope I have a pretty good understanding of what most musicians need for IEM applications. Pro stuff is cool because there are no compromises. Thats what I enjoy, pure performance. Whether it be the exceptional performance of a musician or the accurate playback of that music, it is all good. We have been doing a lot of custom shells for people in the company. This are two reasons why we are interested in this. Oneit allows us to accurately measure their ear canal geometry of many people. This was very important for the development work I needed to generate the ear tip patent application. Twowe have the opportunity to do many unique IEM designs easily in the ear shells. Since there is a lot more room in the ear shells than a generic chassis it is easy load up a lot of drivers into that design. The more drivers the better for headroom and as you may know, Klipsch is all about headroom. Not that we want to be deaf, but because we dislike phase and amplitude distortion. You dont have to play it loud all the time to appreciate the fidelity of great headroom and superior attack. Since we are attenuating the noisy environment in a headphone by isolation you dont have to play it very loud at all to hear new things in recordings that you have never heard before. If I could get a loud speaker to have the bass extension of these designs.WOW that would be impressive, and quite large. Now all we need is a perfect HRTF algorithm to make the imaging sound like a perfect room. So I thought there would never be a more comfortable design than an ear impression for a Custom IEM. I was wrong the Custom Series of products that we are launching are more comfortable! I was surprised. It may take 5 minutes to get that custom fit, but once you understand the angle that you need from the wire mold, every time you put it back in your ear you get that same Custom fit. No unnecessary force vectors in the ear canal equals no pain. Simple Right? Bob Gassel put it best today when I was talking with him on the phone. He had heard that the new headphones we had developed were more comfortable than the current designs, but he said he wasnt prepared for the level of difference in comfort. Instead of a factor of 0.5 improvement it is more like a factor of 5 times improvement in comfort! But dont believe meGet your fit kits from Klipsch in the mail and see for yourselves. So why dont you just go and stick it in your ear? This is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Mark, A phone headset would be nice for those of us stuck in conference calls .... a phone headset version of the IMAGE would probably do very well with the iPhone crowd... I'll be happy to see for myself how comfortable they are if you want to loan me some samples! I'm sure the comfort has only improved since the Pilgrimage. Otherwise, I'll have to wait to stick it in my ear when they become available. So stick it in your ear for us, while we patiently wait for the day we can.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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