HD DVD vs Blue Ray battle is getting more interesting

[Canadian_Dude]

And with the move to make HD-DVD players ubiquitous in the majority of
consumer laptops and desktop computers, HD will will have a strategic
advantage, as users will be inclined to chose that platform that offers
compatibility with what they will already have that affords them a
more economical choice of large capacity data storage.

I have only seen a few latptops with HD-DVD drives and none of them can burn a HD-DVD, they are only HD-DVD ROM drives. I have also never seen a Blu-Ray drive in a laptop yet so I don't think laptops are really gonna shift this battle. Also, what makes HD-DVD drives more compatible than a Blue-Ray drive? Most if not all Blu-Ray drives do regular dvds as well.

[damonrpayne]

An interesting history, the author is obviously not a fan of MSFT, but an interesting read:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/08/29/origins-of-the-blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-war/

[BobbyT]

And with the move to make HD-DVD players ubiquitous in the majority of
consumer laptops and desktop computers, HD will will have a strategic
advantage, as users will be inclined to chose that platform that offers
compatibility with what they will already have that affords them a
more economical choice of large capacity data storage.

I have only seen a few latptops with HD-DVD drives and none of them can burn a HD-DVD, they are only HD-DVD ROM drives. I have also never seen a Blu-Ray drive in a laptop yet so I don't think laptops are really gonna shift this battle. Also, what makes HD-DVD drives more compatible than a Blue-Ray drive? Most if not all Blu-Ray drives do regular dvds as well.

Toshiba and HP are starting to put HD drives in their lap tops. My new HP came with a HD drive and a HDMI port. And with the way computer technology is constantly changing I imagine within the next 6 weeks there will be a lot of lap tops out with HD DVD.

[psg]

tkdamerica:

I have players that play both formats (DVD-A/SACD) and could care less which one wins. Unfortunately, there has been nothing new released recently in either format and my niche is slowly disappearing.

This is very reminiscent of MiniDisc. Once the compression revisions were advanced enough to where there was no audible and barely any measurable difference vs. CD sound quality (ATRAC 1.3), the Next Big Fad had already taken hold (MP3s), and the hundreds of MiniDisc titles that were out up and vanished overnight, with studio support dropping completely, and the revolutionary advances made in MD to get hundreds of songs on a disc vs. a dozen went almost completely un-noticed.

I personally did my part to get MD spread around by interesting all my friends... many blew me off, especially those that used portables, until I took an old CD out of the player and slid it down the sidewalk. Of course it didn't play for crap afterwards. I then did the same to a MiniDisc - three times, put it in the player, and kept right on jammin. If people would have just paid attention - the technology would have sold itself.

The Sony copyright police killed MiniDisc for me.

[wuzzzer]

I have also never seen a Blu-Ray drive in a laptop yet so I don't think laptops are really gonna shift this battle.

Several mid to high priced Sony laptops come with Blu-Ray drives.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=16154

[mas]

Toshiba and Acer will include HD-DVD drives in All of their units.

The only computer maker who supports only Blu-ray among the Top 5 makers is Dell.

You need to start readng the trade journals and start evaluating the market from a business deliverables perspective.

More people buy computers than buy dedicated HD players by far!

If the average person has an HD player in their computer, the likelihood of buying a player that is compatible with an existing format's presence is increased.

The computer market dwarfs the game market.

Additionally, like the CD/record and VHS/Beta 'competition, the dominance of the format was not ultimately determined by the consumer. It was determined by the comercial interests - the business markets that decided supporting redundant formats for the same products was an exhorbitant expense that did not benefit them. And like it or not, this is even more true now.

The point is, fanboys will not determine the market developments, regardless of how empassioned they may be.

But you might want to look at the market from a SWOT/TOWS point of view and consider PLC (product life cycle) and other market factors from an enterprise point of view.

Especially as the average consumer does not have a compelling reason to upgrade to either format with the ready availability of 720p upscaling players that render a typical TV as close enough to HD quality that an additional investment is not a compelling need.

Again, we can keep debating wich format you like better, but it totally misses the bigger point. Just like the larger market is still buying PS2 and Wii and ignoring both XBox360 and PS3, the existing DVD market and the commodity upscaling DVD players renders HD almost superfluous - just like what the SACD vs. DVD-Audio debate was to standard audio.

Meanwhile new AV formats are being developed and tested as various media marketing and delivery systems are activly being developed. Examples of this are the new formats CDVU+ (CD View Plus) - a compact disc with interactive content accessed over the internet froma computer - developed by Disney,which is actively releasing titles on it as we speak. Likewise, Warner Music Group's MVI (Music Video Interactive) format is advancing.

Both formats provide a format that serves as a key to unlock content that is exclusive, interactive, tailored to the particular products demographic and updateable. A prime example of this is the release of the spectacularly successful High School Musical where extras such as downloadble and printable booklets, photographs, lyrics, updateable letters from the band/celebraties, additional video segments, behind the scenes footage, and hidden 'Easter Egg' surprises only available online, as well as links to other related sites allow fans to stay up to date with developments extending far beyond the simple release of the initial product.

The days of a simple static release simply fails to address the potential of an online dynamic delivery environment. And the focus on an old delivery model that fails to address the potential of a multiplatform market which has grown to include computers, personal AV devices, phones, and other converging devices allowing dynamically linked interactive content will quickly become dinosaurs.

So, all in all, who cares about the static HD market? Business is quickly passing this market by as the fanboys debate which format they prefer, and the debate over these formats is quickly becoming superfluous in the process of a continuing market evolution.

[Guest srobak]

[...] Acer will include HD-DVD drives in All of their units.

This will do nothing to further the HD format, as Acer is still the laughing-stock of the computer industry. Likely that this will do more harm than good.

[mas]

Acer will include HD-DVD drives in All of their units.

This will do nothing to further the HD format, as Acer is still the laughing-stock of the computer industry. Likely that this will do more harm than good.

First, if that is all you got out of the post above, then it was indeed wasted ...as you totally miss the point.

Secondly, it is interesting to see what you did focus on. And this is indeed fascinating. Some you folks really need to do a bit more research into the OEM relationships within the computer business as a whole, and in the laptop market in particular! What is funny is that folks evidently think each brand individually designs and builds their own machines!

You guys really need to do more 'behind the scenes' business market analysis rather than buying into the marketing hype in/on the boxes , magazines and the TV. []

[Guest srobak]

First, if that is all you got out of the post above, then it was indeed wasted ...as you totally miss the point.

No, not at all... I got the point, and I got plenty out of the post above... great info ... that was just the only thing I wanted to comment on.

However - as someone who works in the computing and networking industry - and who routinely rips laptops, desktops and servers down to screws and chassis framework - I can attest to the disclaimer at the top of your attached image. Currently the Dell Inspiron, XPS, are not the same units as Acer or Compaq as your chart illustrates. Further - no one of those OEM manufacturers makes pretty much anything except the plastic case, and many of those are outsourced as well. Every single one of those manufacturers buys components (mainboards, processors, ribbon cable, display panels, keyboards, drives, card readers, etc) from other manufacturers. Acer just has a rampant history of buying extremely cheap components with not a lot of build quality before assembling them. Thankfully HP, Compaq, Dell, Toshiba, Sony and Fujitsu do not do this nearly as much.

[mas]

Currently the Dell Inspiron, XPS, are not the same units as Acer or Compaq as your chart illustrates. Further - no one of those OEM manufacturers makes pretty much anything except the plastic case, and many of those are outsourced as well. Every single one of those manufacturers buys components (mainboards, processors, ribbon cable, display panels, keyboards, drives, card readers, etc) from other manufacturers. Acer just has a rampant history of buying extremely cheap components with not a lot of build quality before assembling them. Thankfully HP, Compaq, Dell, Toshiba, Sony and Fujitsu do not do this nearly as much.

Oh well, we are off on another snipe hunt.

The poor snipe! Maybe next time we should give them a break and send folks out to get 100 feet of shoreline......And just how many of those gentle naughas does it take to upholster a couch? Oh, and save the neoprenes!

One day we will have to explore the wonderful world of just what an OEM/ODM does at the risk of destroying some of the fantasies of those who remain tied to brand labels. And no, Acer. Dell, HP, Compaq, Toshiba, Fujitsu, etc. do NOT make their own machines! They are constructed by the OEM/ODM players as illustrated in the graphic matrix! That was the point of the graphic that was missed! ...Regardless of a particular model. The firms listed manufacture the units for the "named" companies whose brand you see on the case! Much as a few canning companiespackage the same 'baby peas' for many brands whose labels with which you may be familiar.

Oh, and to only have experience with komputers. Does internal development of the RS/6000SP count? It was that little unit designed to 'kill' the Timex Sinclair. Ooops, my bad, I meant the Cray. And ironically, it did.

But in any event, what is more interesting is the direction market development is taking in the midst of rampant convergence in an increasingly ubiquitous online broadband world. Simple static standalone media will not persist in a market driven by the capabilies of a ubiquitous dynamic 24/7 attached marketplace. The marketplace paradigm has changed forever. Access to the Internet was only the first phase. The changes we will experience in this next phase will be much more dramatic and disruptive.

[CECAA850]

Say, CECAA850, I would be really interested in how your Blu-ray and HD-DVD players compare and what you think of them. I have an Elite 95 Blu-ray on the way and am a big Pioneer Elite fan.

Sorry, I haven't checked this thread in a while. I can find no fault with the XA2. It does everything that it should and does them extremely well. The only thing that I can find fault with in the 94HD is that it is sometimes hesitant to load discs. I'm going to load the latest firmware soon, which should improve things in that area. It seems that the XA2 may be a bit more tolerant to less than pristine discs also. The audio on both players is neck and neck as far as I'm concerned. The video portion is disc dependant and extremely good with both players. I try to stay neutral in the format war however if one was truly better than the other, I wouldn't have a problem telling people about it.

[Guest srobak]

And no, Acer. Dell, HP, Compaq, Toshiba, Fujitsu, etc. do NOT make their own machines! They are constructed by the OEM/ODM players as illustrated in the graphic matrix! That was the point of the graphic that was missed!

Not missed at all. You seem to have mis-read my post, and might want to take another look. I never said any of them made their own machines. What I said was some of the examples (I specified which ones I could attest to) were not accurate, which is a disclaimer that is in the text in the chart. Again - the current Dell Inspiron models are not manufactured by Compaq, despite the chart's indication that they are. I further went on to indicate that the components from just about all of them are farmed out and not made in-house... many - like those used in Acer - are of extremely low quality and cost. Despite that the same mainboard press might make a Dell board - even the components on the board are of a much different quality.

Cool on the RS6000's - they were the best mail and DNS servers I ever had. About 10 of them supported over 350,000 email accounts without any issues at all... I miss those.

[mas]

Not missed at all. You seem to have mis-read my post, and might want to take another look. I never said any of them made their own machines. What I said was some of the examples (I specified which ones I could attest to) were not accurate, which is a disclaimer that is in the text in the chart. Again - the current Dell Inspiron models are not manufactured by Compaq, despite the chart's indication that they are. ... like those used in Acer - are of extremely low quality and cost. Despite that the same mainboard press might make a Dell board - even the components on the board are of a much different quality.

Cool on the RS6000's - they were the best mail and DNS servers I ever had. About 10 of them supported over 350,000 email accounts without any issues at all... I miss those.

Sorry, not to belabor a superfluous point, but I think I see where the miscommunication lies! You DID misread the post! And this entire point is entirely superfluous to the main post! The secondary point was that the total market will be enlarged by every bundling of the format in the installed consumer laptop market space. I couldn't care less what anyone thinks of a particular brand!

Re-read the matrix again and look at the OEM! It is NOT Compaq!!!!!!!!! Close but no cigar. []And if you think Compaq makes their own computers or anyone else's you are very mistaken! I hope that clears up some of the confusion.

And the SP is a very different animal from the basic RS/6000 (and the entire Power line makes the X86 family architecture look like the toy it is!) Sounds like a lot of hype, doesn't it??? But it certainly is not! Combined with "the switch" and used in distributed environments like HA-GEO - where an entire supercomputer installation is redundant and located not in the same building, but in another part of the world, nothing even comes close. So you can simulate nuclear testing in one part of the world and if it is suddenly taken out it continues, controlled from another part of the world with nothing except an entry in the errorlog indicating a failover. And the concurrent access to shared resources is a very sweet setup - something that normally guarantees instant corruption in any other environment. And when clustered, no environment comes close to the management capabilities of the world's most powerful supercomputer. But then AIX is a sweet OS with capabilities that go FAR beyond what is even imagined in other OSes. And then to go back and toy with the crippled and fatally flawed Windows...Ouch!!!!!! []

But then we have been dealing with 15GHz+ front side bus speeds for ~5 years now. (yup, thats just a bit faster than anything Windows has ever imagined!) Wait till the gamers hear about that! But enought rambling...

And on the consumer side, its time to go back to the Mac! And check out the Time Machine feature in Leopard! Vista is pretty and screwy. Leopard Rocks! Functinality, not eye candy. http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9043838

But back to the subject, as much as I like standalone formats, the world is poised to see a continued convergence characterized by the exploitation of a unbiquitous 24/7 broadband access. And the marketplace is not waiting for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray to figure out that they are simply fighting over a very small market niche. And no, lest one mistakenly miss the point, the question is NOT over HD or not! It will most likely come, but by the time the two formats figure it out, they won't matter.

[Guest srobak]

Sorry, your graphic was a bit chunky... compal... *shrug* I need to squint harder in my age.

aix & sunos 4.1.3 ftw!

Why would I toy with windoze? How many other people do you know that use a NeXT Color Turbo as their daily machine?

[psg]

Walmart Canada has a flyer with a $200 Venturer HD-DVD player and your choice of two disks. If I had an HD display, that price would be good enough for me now that my video rental place is beginning to carry a few titles.