Klipsch Epic CF 3 Version 1 In Da House

[Montigue231]

Ray, you have the version 2 or 3's from the serial number u have there. Any Epics made in 95 3(95)6202 were either the version 2 or 3's. Which means you have the 3 inch port tubes..Which are less desirable...Measure ur port tubes im sure there 3 inches. This is probably why you havent been happy with ur epics.. My understanding is the version 2 and 3;s where not as good sounding because they tweaked the speaker..so to speak

. BTW i read your other posts and seen ur opinions on your epic speakers..Your problem might be the 3 inch ports...Anyway im not an expert by any means...its just what i been reading here and there. The other guys here, gave me all the info, they can talk more in technical terms and make more sense, lol

[colterphoto1]

I have the network schematics if anyone wants them. email me at michael.colter@klipsch.com.

There is a forum member in NY (Rochester?) who has CF4 in front and CF3's (that I shipped to him-I think previously owned by Bob Gassel) in a home theater. That's gotta be awesome.

Guys, be careful playing with these. There are no substitutes for a CF woofer with neodynium magnet structure and I think we're out of some of them and getting low stock on others. It might be the same situation on tweeter diaphragms. Don't stick a screwdriver in one or burn any drivers. And keep the grilles on for protection except when showing of Mssr. Delgado's fine work, of course.

[Ray Garrison]

Hi Coulter. Any chance there's a file on hand somewhere that would decode my serial number? Just curious... current location doesn't permit La Scalas or I'd have those, these CF4's have been with me for 12 years through various incarnations of houses / music rooms / ancillary equipment, and for right now they're doing nicely, but I am curious when they were made.

OT - any thoughts on the Sony Alpha 700?

[marems]

Hey Ray, Looks like your CF-4's were made in 1996.

[Voodoo]

Montigue,
My KV-4 I bought for $450 from a guy on this forum. BUT, I It originally lists for $600.

I was able to find it because I posted a "wanted" listing here. They'are hard to find!

[ka7niq]

I have probably owned as many CF series speakers as the next guy.

Here is my take on them.

To REALLY make them sound special, they need to be passive bi amped.

At the moment, I am using a big old Onkyo TX SV 919THX receiver on the horns, and a powerful pro sound amp on the woofers.

I come out the Onkyo's pre outs with a male rca into two female rca's.

One line goes BACK into the Onkyo's main amps, one line goes to the "pro sound" amps.

The pro sound amps have level controls, and are of higher input sensitivity then the Onkyo Amps.

I can totally control the balance between horn/woofers with the amps level control.

Since the pro sound amp has marked level controls, I have marked 3 "positions".

They are called Flat, Warm, and "make audiophiles poop"

To MY ears, the horns in ALL the CF series 3's and 4's are a little too hot.

If you have a total system with NO harshness, and a great recording, fine ....

Even then, on certain good recordings, the horn/driver can show it's azz ..

It is my opinion that IF Roy would have opted for a little lower horn level, hence a "warmth curve", audiophiles would have been fighting to get the CF 3's and CF 4's.

But WHAT was poor Roy to do at an "efficiency obsessed company" ?

He made a voicing decision in favor of efficiency, or got some out of spec autoformers maybe, but whatever.

In STOCK form, the CF 3's and CF 4's are way too foreward and hard sounding for MY ears.

Solution ?

Biamp them, and reduce the horns level a bit.

Then, they become "Klipsch Vandersteens", warm, musical, and rich.

Imaging vastly improves too.

By having :adjustable level", one can optimize the speaker for what we are listening too.

Wanna listen to Abba, The B 52's, STYX, REO, Judas Priest .... No Problem, crank the horns level down a tad, create a "warmth curve".

But, wanna make yoor "audio snob buddies" pee their pants >

Crank the horns level UP past flat, and put on "Jazz at the Pawnshop", LOL

Once you biamp the CF 3 or CF 4, you will be a happy audiophile [Y]

Probably, for the first time, you will truly have a system that sounds great on a VARIETY of things.

Try it, it is easy to do, and REMEMBER, you need TWO seperate runs of cable to each speaker, and PLEASE, remember to remove the shorting straps on yer speakers !!

[colterphoto1]

I just took a look at one of my CF4's and the serial number is 3956202

Does that mean it was made on the 395th day of 2006?

some of the serial numbers in that era had no date code imbedded in them.

[stardust8750]

I just landed a set of version1 CF3's for $300 on craigslist. As luck would have it they were in Miami and I'm in Chicago but my buddy (thumperxes on here) went and picked them up for me.

1st post []

[ka7niq]

Great find, you will love them !

Read what I said about passive biamp for them ?

In my experience, this is the best way to run them.

Congratulations !!!

[jarrod2750]

I recently picked up these speakers and have them hooked up to an amp that is rated at 140 watts per channel and bi wired. Is this enough amps to get the most out of these speakers are do I need something more powerful?

Thanks.

[jarrod2750]

Bump.

Any recommendations or suggestions?

[ka7niq]

The CF Series speakers, either version one or version 2's are NOT as "amp critical" as some think.

That IS, as long as you use TWO amps. [:^)]

One amp must have level controls, so you can adjust the level of the Horn [Y]

Once the Horns Level is turned down a tad, the speaker becomes warm, smooth, and musical.

Imaging improves, and you realize that these are good drivers.

Remember, the Horn comes in from 750 to 1000 hz.

A downward sloping response hinged in this area creates what is called a "warmth curve".

Some people, especially ME, prefer this response to one that is Flat.

I have had several audio and non audio friends over to listen to the speaker set Flat, and with the Level of the Horn reduced a TAD.

Not ONE person liked the Flat setting.

The Flat setting is with the horns level the same as the woofer amps setting, assuming BOTH amps have the same sensitivity.

I used a pair of Chinese Knockoffs of Yamaha Pro Sound Amp's

And, I have also used a pair of Ashly FET 500 "pro sound amps" as well/

I find it more "comforting" to have a pair of the same amps.

But I have used a Parasound HCA 500 on the Horns, and a pro sound amp on the woofers.

This also worked well, but I found the extreme highs on the Parasound a LITTLE subdued.

This is NOT a good situation on a CF series speaker with a reduced level horn IMHO.

The Horn/Driver pair used in the CF 3 and CF 4 series 1 and 2 has a hard time making it OUT to 20 K anyway.

To add an amp with the Rolled off sound of the small Parasound HCA 500 didn't sound as good as an amp that had a more detailed, extended top end.

Actually, the Ashly FET 500's are a Mos Fet amp, a little rolled off up top.

NOT as bad as the Parasound, but not quite as extended as the yamaha pro sound amp knockoffs.

Sorry to ramble on, but this is my experience with the CF 3 and CF 4 speakers.

I think many "high end" amps are a big rip off.

There are many really good "pro sound amps" like QSC, BGW, Yamaha, Crown, and several others that are well designed amplifiers.

In MY experience, the CF 3 and Cf 4's can sound great with most well designed amplifiers, once the Horn level problem is attended to.

But then, YOU may like a Flat Response ?

Maybe in an Anechoic Chamber, or a very well damped big room.

I prefer the sound of the CF 3 and CF 4 with a slight reduction of the Horns Level.

YMMV

But then, what do I know ?

I am just an old Roof Cleaner in Tampa

[SWL]

Are you using an active crossover in your passive configuration?

[ka7niq]

NO NO NO []

I think Klipsch did a decent job on the crossover, and have tried an active crossover.

I did not feel it was any better OVERALL to justify the added complexity.

I think Klipsch went for a Flat as possible response, and I prefer a warmth curve.

Just a Slight reduction

in the level of the Horn makes ALL the difference in the World.

This is easily accomplished with a passive bi amp arrangement.

I did try a Rane 24 DB active adjustable electronic crossover.

Wanna Buy it ?

[SWL]

I'm doing something similar with RF-7's. The amps running the highs are a couple of notches lower than the amps running the lows.......accomplishing the same thing you are describing above.

However, I am using an active crossover. It allows me to have additional control over the lows and highs to get the sound I want. I am in the tone control/equalizer camp since most recordings I listen to are crap.

I realize this is not "true" bi-amping......but it works for me to manipulate the highs and lows......without anything "scientific" to back it up. []

[ka7niq]

IF you are using an electronic crossover, you must first bypass the internal crossover in your speakers.

Then, all drivers must be connected directly to the amps.

Seldom in MY experience will you get an electronic crossover to "sum to flat" w/o measuring equipment and a well damped room.

[SWL]

IF you are using an electronic crossover, you must first bypass the internal crossover in your speakers.

Correct......if you are "true bi-amping". I am passively bi-amping with an active crossover.

Preamp------>active crossover-------->amps-------->speakers. The active crossover in this case is working like an eq or tone controls. In addition to the attenuators on the amps themselves.......I can tweak my a$$ off.

[ka7niq]

Then, IMHO, you are messing up by placing another crossover before the passive one.

If you like it, fine.

Personally, that is not how I would do it.

[SWL]

Actually, I agree.

I have gone back and forth between using the active x-over.......not using it......not bi-amping to free up some amps.......and always going back to using it. Like I said, I think it is just the ability to use the crossover to tweak the highs and lows.......and also using the sub-out on the crossover.

Someday I'll attempt true bi-amping. Glad to hear you're getting positive results from your passive configuration.

[ka7niq]

Assuming the stock Klipsch crossover was designed properly, another crossover before it can only degrade the sound.

The CF 3 and CF 4's are two ways.

I think your speakers are 3 ways ?

Thus, in a passive biamp set up, you only have control of the woofers and the whole midrange/tweeter array, with no way to adjust the individual top drivers level ?

IF Klipsch decided to run the tweeter to hot, you are screwed, unless you use resistors, and if it is an autoformer in there, it wont work right.

Why not get you some CF 3's or CF 4's, LOL

If your speakers are 3 ways, and TRI Ampable, you are in business.

Simply use 3 amps, two with level controls.

Then, you can find the riight level YOU like for the midrange and tweeter.