TBrennan Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 Ear--Indeed, PWK got some marvelous results from some pretty ordinary drivers, that I think was as much a part of his genius as his folded horn designs. That's why I'm skeptical of crossover mods, PWK obviously spent much time working on them and on the "voicing" of his designs, to throwover the crossover is to pretty much throwover the man's intent and to substitute another's taste for PWK's. Speakers like older Heritages were designed solely by PWK, we really don't know his thinking process or what he may have been doing in one part of the design to make up for problems in others, we do know he was a very empiracal designer. So they're kinda like a painting or sculpture; one man's art, an expression of his ideas. This leads me to wonder if ANY mods should be made on Heritage speakers. As I'm sure you know, different isn't always better though when we make a mod and hear a difference we usually think it's better, I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stvans Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 Bose are the worst speakers I have heard in over 30 years of owning or listening to stero equipment. Fisher speakers are a huge step up from BOSE. Since this is the Klipsch forum, BUY KLIPSCH SPEAKERS. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 TBrennan, I have to agree.Klipsch designs did not become classic for nothing.Most who mod his speakers do think they make them better after the mod.Truth may be only some mods do add to the total package and most take away what made these so great. I dont mod any speakers,unless I made them. When I buy a Klipsch I want the Klipsch sound,when I buy a Dynaudio I want the...truth.There is no Dynaudio sound,its simply more detailed,not a trace of harshness and coloration free. When I buy Bo$e...err wait I NEVER WILL BUY BO$E. Yes there is a Bo$e sound...its coloration,distortion,holes in the response as deep as the Grand Canyon,irritating band pass bass,"reflecting" noise,cheap materials and BRAIN WASH STYLE PUBLICITY.Plus a pool of ignorant buyers who think they hit a pot of gold. NOT Do I like to bash Bo$e and Nuance and mass marker brands...YES I DO.My fave is the Sony WM40 "sub" its more of a plastic/MDF box with a scrap yard headphone amd powering a "papier mache" El Scrappo WOOFA.All to give its happy joly(remember Joly the "speaker" makers?)owner pure total harmonic distorion and give a new meaning to LOUSY audio. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 Ear---Yeah, Dynaudio is pretty good as direct-radiators go, many years ago I made DIY speakers with D-28AFs and their 6 or 7" woofer, forget the number. Much better than my DIYs using Audax and Peerless drivers. Sony makes some VERY interesting speakers for the Japanese market we don't see on our continent: no- holds-barred compression drivers, horns and 15" woofers; evidently of the very highest quality. The Japanese are into horn speakers big-time, so are many French audiophiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by TBrennan: Ear---Yeah, Dynaudio is pretty good as direct-radiators go, many years ago I made DIY speakers with D-28AFs and their 6 or 7" woofer, forget the number. Much better than my DIYs using Audax and Peerless drivers. Sony makes some VERY interesting speakers for the Japanese market we don't see on our continent: no- holds-barred compression drivers, horns and 15" woofers; evidently of the very highest quality. The Japanese are into horn speakers big-time, so are many French audiophiles. wow, boy would i like to see that! was at radio shack today getting some s-video cables (wow they are expensive!) and saw a speaker driver tehre that looked of about Bose quality, looked just like some disected bose speakers i saw at my friends house, tornado's don't like BOSE cubes either ------------------ -justin I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 TBrennan, I still have a matched pair of the famous Dynaudio Esorat tweeters and the Esotar dome midranges!Probably among the 3 best tweeters and midranges ever made.I also have two ScanSpeak Revelator mid-bass drivers. When I will have time I will build cabinets and go to Solen for the crossover(custom of course).High-End DIY is not cheap. Speaking about drivers Eton makes some of the best mid-bass drivers. Did you see Hi-Vi Research? These copycats copied so many Dynaudio drivers!Just looks at their drivers!And some look like Eton copies!I only buy the real deal no copies. JBL made(still makes?)high-end horn loaded speakers and Jadis too.Yes horn loaded speakers are still very popular and will remain a force.How about the huge Tannoy horns,using one concentric driver(a two in one with a compression tweeter).Very good sound and only a few watts needed.Expensive and HUGE too Justin, The RatShack does not carry any quality drivers,when I was 9 I often passed time at local RatShacks and I inspected the drivers there.LOL Today I cant control myself when I hear a Bo$e or those Crapimus RatShack speakers with the 15" woofer in a 1 cu ft paper cabinet. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted January 6, 2002 Share Posted January 6, 2002 I just want to add, from a Canadian perspective, maybe it should be called "Klipschose" bashing! I am disappointed to find my "local Dealer" is backing away from Klipsch, after becoming #1(good cut from Mac) Why...NO MONEY....he makes more from Paradigm, Marantz, even Monsoon....like I said in previous posts, no Heritage to view, no sale, order blind....HA....he can't compete 1 on 1 with Ref\Synergy sales. I checked out the local Drugstore Klipsch, not "1" unit wired....all below ref3's on display....they will back order "ANYTHING" you want even though nothing is in stock. HEY...16 stores against 1 Independent Dealer...nice view Klipsch....yet the A\V Department Manager was ALL of 16 in the Drugstore...wanted to ask where the nose spray was located....still not sure.... My Dealer now has to "compete" with a local "DRUGSTORE" chain...thats right, "LONDON DRUGS"...in Western Canada...large chain...not sure of Eastern Canada...TheEars would know.....regardless....Klipsch, in your local Drugstore....next to the lip balm...... Reminds me of the early 90's Sony ES series, Pioneer Elite.....now Onkyo....all in Wal-Mart, Kmart,Zellers, and apparent now in "Canada".....A FRIGGIN DRUGSTORE". Talk about Bastardizing yourself "KLIPSCH"....HELLO??!! Just glad I have ALL my Heritages before the transitition period... For your info...4 Klipsch Dealers in Edmonton...1 in Calgary...yet "Corporate HQ for Canada" is in Vancouver BC and I have left out your corner London "Drug Mart"..pass the doobie and the Preperation H....HA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 6, 2002 Share Posted January 6, 2002 Ear--Oh yeah, Tannoy. I almost bought a set of big Tannoy rear-loaded cornerhorns back in the 70s, bought LaScalas instead. The Tannoys were kinda warm and "Bozaky" sounding but of course still had all the dynamics and clarity of good horns. The co-axial horn-woofer thing is a good way to go, you have the Tannoys and of course the famous Altec DuPlexe 604s and 605s. I own a pair of 605s from the early 1960s and they're very fine speakers, sometimes I prefer then to the big VOT rig. Radian makes some intersting co-axes that work just like the Tannoys with the woofer cone being the horn flare, take a look at www.radianaudio.com I've never heard them but I've heard reports they're very good, I know their compression drivers are 1st rate. Priced good too, about $450 for the 15" version. A set of their 12" co-axes would make nice surrounds. To see the high-end horns JBL currently sells in Japan look at that K2s in that Lansing Heritage site, very nice. There's also an intersting Japanese site called Hi-Fi Do, a Japanese retailer who sells lots of American horn speakers and parts, you oughta see the big money the stuff goes for over there. There's a link to it on my site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted January 6, 2002 Share Posted January 6, 2002 quote: Justin,The RatShack does not carry any quality drivers,when I was 9 I often passed time at local RatShacks and I inspected the drivers there.LOL Today I cant control myself when I hear a Bo$e or those Crapimus RatShack speakers with the 15" woofer in a 1 cu ft paper cabinet. ears... no duh! that was my point! ------------------ -justin I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 TBrennan, I just visited the Radian page,very impressive looking drivers they make.I will investigate more. About the JBL K2 9500,AWESOME.Many high end reviews are raving about these wonders.The K2 is in the purest JBL tradition.Like the new JBL Ti-K sub! AWESOME I am seriously thinking about buying the Ti-K sub.Its not free lunch as the master sub is $6000 US and each slave sub(as much as 3 can be conected!)are $5000 US a pop! !BURP! Goodness the price is far from economy class.A single Ti-K can best even the awesome SLP monster the SVS Ultra(pair!).Imagine FOUR Ti-K subs or FOUR SVS SS! Lord mercy Justin, DUH...now PLEASE return to your PM section.Do you hear the screams? YES YOU DO they need your help! PM fans need YOU! TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 Bose Jewel cubes The single most important thing to remember about the best selling folded horn-loaded loudspeakers on the market today is that they are cute little boxes. The large size of their bi-directional sound is a vivid contrast to their diminutive size. They make great sound for their size - this is from someone firmly in the "bigger is better" camp when it comes to music and speakers. In fact, the living room response of a small black pair recently revealed that the small cubes with the round backs do indeed capture a good portion of the audio spectrum. The truth of the sharp looking cubes is not how badly they perform; but how much of the music they capture. They measure surprisingly well, which says as much about their engineering as it does about the validity and weight of frequency response measurements. Either the small speakers do a very good job of capturing a wide swath of the musical range or the importance of such measurements is historically over-inflated. My woefully inadequate measurements show something like 315 to 8 kHz within about 4 dB. With each cube pointed off-axis from my sweet spot, by about 45 degrees, there also seems to be little or no measurable reflections from the side-walls. Pretty impressive for speakers than fit in the palm of your hand. The stack of two cubes per side does need a generous twist of the amplifier dial to start sounding good and they should never be seen in public without a sub-woofer, but the little cubes are a marvel of engineering. More like a tightly wound Honda VTEC engine than a heavy Chevy big-block. The differences are actually quite subtle. Although the volume of the Cornwall boxes is hundreds of times larger than Bose's boxes, the big old horns reveal the delicate nuances of music which make them eminently more listenable and enjoyable. They play with authority and verve, making music joyous and addicting. Compared to my big old horns, the pianos on the Jewel cubes have no ring, the cymbals are distinct, but without dramatic sizzle, they have no mellow ring or crisp swish. The Bose boxes have less tonal definition, details are buried and attack on notes is slower. Saxophones have no "blat", bite or edginess. While their bass is less solid with little punch, in some respects, especially on typical recordings of popular music, the little boxes are easier on the ears than the audiophile ones. No wonder so many of my friends have the Bose systems: they get most of the music without the ugly row of speakers, cabinet and electronics which forms an expensive wall in my living room. If I was not a tweaking audiophile, these charming, barely there, speakers are certainly ones that I would consider. The Wife Acceptance Factor is the top of the list. The music sounds good, but it will not suck you in to further stereo improvements and large collections of discs. Buy these jewels and then find another hobby. This message has been edited by Colin on 01-07-2002 at 11:11 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew2 Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 boomer9911 I know what you mean by london drugs selling klipsch. They are the only dealer here. Every staff member in AV dept. are Assistant manager. Its funny. Here, they have all synergy set up, and all ref, exept the RF7 and subs. And they sell Onkyo, Luxman, ect ------------------ Matthew Gatta' love klipsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 Colin, Now this is well said... "They play with authority and verve, making music joyous and addicting." This describes Klipsch very well. Bo$e is well packaged poop,nothing more and nothing LESS.I am sorry if I have to be so direct. TheEAR(s) Now theears TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 Thanks for the vote Mat, if ever in Edmonton, try Audio 5.1 for your Klipsch needs, while it lasts. He does have an RF7 setup if you want to view. He just sold one to a guy from Ft. McMurray, people do make the venture to view\hear. I do apoplogize to the board for my outburst...but it hit home and honestly, I thought it sucked! It's bizare, even pushes alot of Monitor Audio, Bronze through Gold, KEF, PMC, Marantz Plasma's...etc. I could agree with A & B Sound, Future Shop even, "AN" Electronics Store....but a Friggin Drugstore....I missed the boat somehow I think.... I am glad I diverted a member of this forums purchase from the vitamin section to a true Audio Store.... PS. To add, he has January clearance prices on now, which competes with the cosmetics section at London Drugs Trying to get Klipsch in Canada these days is like trying to strike gold so to speak..... This message has been edited by boomer9911 on 01-08-2002 at 12:12 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Okay, so maybe most folks who just want music,(non-audiophile)are perfectly happy with these. They save a lot of space, blah blah..... But I think it does not justify $1299.99 MRSD price. You think they put that much money into the construction of the 5.1 and the bass module? I guess the tooling for the plastic injection mold presses could be spendy. LOL! (I wonder if human hands even touch these during assembly.) If this twelve hundred dollar system was lowered to about $300, it would make a great PC system! I think that Bose and their marketing schemes a good part of how audio has been 'Dumbed Down' over the years. My two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew2 Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 I dont think bose makes the worst speakers. I think there bad, but not horrible. It's the priceing. $700 for a crappy tower speaker at sears. I looked at the back from about 5 feet away, and could see straight through. Nothing inside, just drivers. If the lifestyle systems cost $200 canadian, I would buy it for my computer, or my parents.. Not $2000 or $3000. I'd buy sony towers instead.. ------------------ Matthew Gatta' love klipsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Ok we all agree B0$e speakers are BAD,err horrible in alluring packaging and with a solid marketing team around B0$e. No about some of the best speakers...not in any order JBL(K2 series...9500,Everest and the new series,and original VOT and home made VOT replicas) Dynaudio(Contour series to the awesome Evidence Master Wilson Audio(WATT/PUPPY,MAXX and X1) Spendor(FL series,FL10 is a real winner) Magneplanar(all I heard) Sound Lab(I dont remember the model but it sounded great) Martin Logan(Prodigy) Klipsch(many vintage and the R series) Avalon(Eidolon and Avatar) Thiel(pretty much the whole range) Totem(musicality and musicality,awesome minimonitors) JM Lab(Mini Utopia and Utopia) B&W(Nautilus series all good,realistic prices ...for High-End) Aerial Acoustics(the 10T is superb,no its grrrreat) Tannoy(Kingdom) Definitive Tech speakers and subs are overrated,while good quality they dont even touch Dynaudio Contour or Aerial speakers in sound quality.Not even close Paradigm are also overrated,they make outstanding very inexpensive speakers(the classic ATOM is one)the so called Sudio series are not that great.They make very good subs(2200 and Servo-15). I had both the BP2000 towers and the Studio 60's and sold both fast.My Dynes eat them in imaging,detail and all around finesse.Eat them alive. As of now B0$e is a gate keeper for all speakers of poor taste and colored sound. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 Ear(s), I noticed that missing from your list were Quad speakers (amongst others - but these are a real surprise). From your previous postings I know you like sonic accuracy and the Quad 988's and 989's are about as accurate as you can get. Of course, as with most ESL's they are a bugger to drive properly and they dont blow the roof off but sonically I am yet to see their match. A friend of mine has recently traded in his Khorns for a pair of 989's driven by an Accuphase E407 integrated amp. Unfortunately he is still using a cd player as a source (but he is evaluating SACD players as I type) but they still sound amazingly good. They lack the impact and ultimate size of the Horns but they are ruthlessly (and irritatingly) accurate. As a man who likes the Horn sound of my Heresy's I wanted to punch their face in after 5 minutes but I think you will go nuts over them. One man's meat and all that. ------------------ 2 * Heresy 2 (mains) 2 * Homemade horn speakers (rears) 1 * REL Strata 3 sub Accuphase E211 amp. Tube monoblocks with separate pre-amp (solid state). Marantz CD6000 player Sony NS900 SACD/DVD player Stax Headphones Humax 5400 digital satellite receiver Sharp Video 32" Sony flat screen 16:9 TV Mogami interconnects Silver Synergistic speaker cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 what! no PSBs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 Forgot about NUANCE...add to the wood burning pile. Sold in "International Stereo"(Western Canada only). Drivers can be purchased at "any" Radio Shack for $14.99 including tax, I hope not sold to our southern neighbours, avoid this speaker system if you hear about them(ebay etc), check out their construction even Would love to read your review on these "speakers" TE. I find the Paradigm, bright,punchy(square),economical, (as apposed the rf3's cost, yet enveloping sound), they have won numerous awards for 12 years, lacking in bottom end in my opinion, but still a good system(got a girlfriend the old Legends\b in sub, Phantoms, and cc270 for just over 1K,(discontinued line at 50% off). She got pissed when I mentioned the cost of cables, then I reminded her of her $900 cook set, that I can get at Costco for $27.77, non stick of course..HA.. I also like Anthem\Sonic Frontiers, as well as Monsoon, mind you the "snowboard" has me skeptical, despite it's rave reviews(CDN is making a come back). Saw an indivdual purchase the Marantz SR19EX with a Paradigm PW2200 sub, just got his "awesome" nuisance from International Stereo....how sad...spent 6K, nice RF3\RSW12 setup if he had thought it through, even 7's.... This message has been edited by boomer9911 on 01-13-2002 at 01:44 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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