HudsonValleyNoah Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 I never would have thought it would be true. I am running twin pairs of Cornwalls in my main 2-Chanel system (The Hudson Valley's Twin Towers of Cornwall - lol.) Super sound when driven by my newly restored Scott LK-72 (thanks to Terry De Wick.) Listening to Rock 'n Roll you can often feel the base in your chest. But while listening to my favorite organ music I noticed something seemed to be missing. I had read about this more than a few times here on the forum but it did not click until someone said I was missing "the bottom octave" of the music (Who said that - thanks.) And so I pulled out my last un-used sub-woofer. Just a little KSW-10. How could a little 10" sub-woofer do what 4, 15" woofers could not? But there it is, that bottom octave (or at least, some part of it) that the Cornwalls could not properly reproduce. From a little 10" Sub... Amazing! So, will it get better with a larger or better sub? What do you suggest? Thanks, Noah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 buy a real organ and take lessons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckasaaron Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 buy a real organ and take lessons Hows that helpful???[^o)]I'd say that obviously it will get better with a good sub. I have the "little KSW10" and I like the performance that I'm getting out of it now and don't have any plans on switching it out, aside from the fact that it's because of financial issues, haha. Why wouldn't the performance get better? A "better" sub will play lower and flatter (likely) so it has potential to be even more musical than the current set up. Or if you like it then stick with and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwhaples Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 How's it sound when you go back to playing Rock and Roll? Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Anything that is 12" or more ................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 buy a real organ and take lessons Hows that helpful???I'd say that obviously it will get better with a good sub. I have the "little KSW10" and I like the performance that I'm getting out of it now and don't have any plans on switching it out, aside from the fact that it's because of financial issues, haha. Why wouldn't the performance get better? A "better" sub will play lower and flatter (likely) so it has potential to be even more musical than the current set up. Or if you like it then stick with and enjoy. You right, I am sorry. You will need to purchase a sub that can play down to 20hz and not rolling off and keep up in decibals with your mains. In addition you will then face possible room issues which will prevent your sub from delivering its actual performance in your listening room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 If you really have the Cornwalls stacked I wonder if the upper pair are really able to produce effective lower bass. 1st problem is floor reflection from the upper woofer which, due to the added distance (woofer-floor-ears vs woofer-ears) causes cancellation at certain frequencies. It's often best to keep woofers as close to the floor as possible (as reflected in the Cornwall design). 2nd problem is related: Cornwall woofer-port combination may depend on the close proximity of the floor for effective low frequency delivery. Cornwall owners may want to comment on that. Try using only the lower pair. The total acoustic power capability may be reduced so it's not quite the same physical experience, but the lower bass may be in better balance. There are plenty of reasons a 10" sub may go lower than a 15" woofer, but that may not be what you're hearing. Check the specs on the Cornwall. In a floor-mounted situation, that's how low it goes. Your sub probably goes a bit lower. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 My '79 Cornwalls (now sold) only went down to 38Hz, and since I primarily listen to pipe organ recordings with bass content that can exceed well below 20Hz, it only makes sense to add a subwoofer that can produce "the bottom octave" (the fundamentals to the lowest C pedal note with a 32' pedal stop is about 16 cycles which you can clearly hear as beats per second). I've coined that term numerous times on various threads over the years since I want to accurately hear the fullest spectrum of frequencies from my recordings of a musical instrument that can produce one of the widest frequency bandwidths known. If I only listened to rock or jazz, then the Cornwalls alone without a subwoofer would certainly be justified. And I believe all your music will sound better with a larger sub...you'll at least have the extra reserve power and a lower frequency response if you ever need it for whatever genre of music that produces bass from "the bottom octave"! I'm currently running two (stereo) Dayton Audio 10" subs (rated at 25Hz each) because they were the best affordable subs I could buy within my budget. Naturally if I could afford better (and bigger), I'd purchase a larger Klipsch, SVS, Velodyne, et al (or two). But for now what I have serve my purpose quite nicely and blend perfectly with my present RB-75s.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Those little Daytons probably sound rather good. I have this CD I got cheap once. Bach organ favorites. Recorded at a Cathedral in Indianapolis. It's a DDD recording. It doesn't seem that loud, but it has some dynamics to the recording. It's nice and clean, so you can really hike up the volume. I bought it for Tocatta and Fugue...... I have a pair of LaScala cabinets I'm srounging up parts for. When I first got them, I installed what parts I had on hand to get some sort idea of the sound. Using my pair of SVS 16/46 CS's set at 40Hz in stereo, and a older integrated JCV SS amp powering the cobbled up LS wannbe speakers, "Tocatta and Fugue" was real impressive. The LS may roll off a bit early, but it can spit out the organ notes within it's bandwidth with authority. It was like a force field when it dropped down to the lower pedals..... And I was using woofers that are not in spec with Lascala........ Got any big Cathedral organ recordings you can recommend, Jim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boom3 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 We have two pair of 86 CW IIs, at each corner of the room. The fronts are pulled out the corners about 18 inches and toed at about 30 degrees. We use a Cambridge sub with a 10 inch driver, about 18 inches from a corner. At first we had it set to the THX recommended 80 Hz crossover, but the Corns have a bit of a bump there and the result was too boomy. So we set the crossover to 55 and that helped a great deal. The Corns, by themselves, do drop out just below 40 Hz, although it is still audible to 35 Hz or so. On good organ material, we found certain objects do rattle, mainly our tschtokies on glass shelves and the shelves themselves. The maximum level I have noted, at the listening position was 102 dB, C-weighted, but that was with disco, not classical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyholiday Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Is the sub dialed in for distance, an volume level,comparitivly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 I run 3 12" SVS subwoofers in my all Cornwall 5.1 system. They are fab. They are fast and a nice match with the Cornwalls. The house rocks when I crank it up. I little overkill maybe? Oh yeah but I like it [] Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boom3 Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Is the sub dialed in for distance, an volume level,comparitivly If you're posing this question to me, the answer is that we didn't follow any science in dialing in the sub woofer, we just put it in the system and adjusted the crossover points and level until we liked what we had. It takes some of the strain, so to speak, off the Corns at the very low end. IMO, a sub should not call attention to itself in most program material, if it does, it's too loud and/or the crossover point is set wrong for the flanking speakers and the room. OTHOH, it has been a welcome addition for organ music and of course movie sound effects like the saucer section crash sequence of Star Trek: Generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HudsonValleyNoah Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 Is the sub dialed in for distance, an volume level,comparitivly ...and if you were asking me; tuned (dialed in) by ear only. My experience parallels Boom3's very closely Except for that disco stuff [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HudsonValleyNoah Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 Someone back a few posts ago asked if the sub seemed to make much difference on the rock and roll and the answer is no... The Cornwalls do a very respectable job of hammering out the base line and the drum beats of rock, it's only on the organ pedal stuff where I hear it. What a beautiful difference it makes there. Still, there seems to be a few (lower) notes that my little 10" is not reproducing well. Question: At how many Hz do those last few notes exist? Also along with Mike, I ask for recommendations for Great Cathedral Organ recordings from jt1stCav - what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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