All American Audio

[kev313]

I'm with you on this quest, but even components labelled "Made in USA" may have foreign parts inside. The law allows that label to be applied if the domestic parts content is some percent of the total and final assembly is performed here. I think that percentage varies by product, so there are different criteria for cars and electronics. Klipsch sources a lot of its (non-Heritage) drivers from the Orient, and I think the K-77-F tweeter, used in the Klipschorn, is made in the Phillipines.

I wish I could buy all-American everything, but even niche products (like high-end audio) are becoming globalized. For me, how socially and environmentally responsible a company is, and how they treat their workers, is more important than country of origin.

 

Disclaimer - Broad statement to follow....I think you can do it - An all-American system, all components, a soup to nuts approach - but I don't think that you can do it cheaply. Due to the domestic high cost of manufacturing these low sales volume items, for a good quality, all-American 2-channel system, I think you will be looking at smaller manufacturers and relatively high prices.

[kev313]

Oldtimer - Thanks - Good to be seen. Been crazy round my life lately with a new job and new kid etc...

[kevinmi]

McIntosh Factory still in New York, still being handbuilt by New Yorkers ....... in the USA .............

Thanks for the info. I looked at some pics of the K-Horns that are for sale locally, and they look like they may be too beat up. I'm thinking maybe I should stick to reference series anyway because of real estate issues. I'm going to end up piecing this system together one piece at a time, and it will be my "last" stereo, so it wiil be made of good components. I have an attic full of old receivers that I have upgraded over the years. Time to quit the upgrade mode and buy top shelf.

DKP-sent you a pm-Kevin

Buc... Toyota, Nissan, Honda, BMW and Volkswagon all have factories and build cars in the US by Americans too!

The notion that all components come from solely once country for a complex piece of equipment has become an anachronism.

For 2 Channel - fine.

But 5 or 7 channels of tubes for home theater? Buy Crown. An American company that will not only afford quality sound, but also an economy of cost of operation and maintenance over an incredible lifecycle. Something tubes can only dream about.

Thanks for all the info. I didn't realize that McIntosh sold out. Pity. I did have a chance to hear Crown/Klipsch combo when I helped a friend out in his DJ business in the 80's. He used industrial LaScalas and 250 watt Crowns. A little abient hiss if I remember correctly, but brutally powerful! Has anyone have experience with B&K components? It may be futile to go 100% American, but it's a fun challenge to see how close we can get. Kevin

Hi Kevin,

I have used B&K in my theater for some time now. Very solid products. There is a dealer in Flint-let me know if you need directions.

I have some B&K equipment for sale. If you're interested in learning more, send me an e-mail or pm. I live in Davison, BTW.

[TheEAR]

American made...Krell,Jeff Rowland,ATI(not video cards,the amps) Mark Levinson among others... budget well the ATI is , the amps are tanks and far from overpriced.

[mas]

As everyone seems to easily find high priced products that are US made, maybe it bears repeating that:

Crown and QSC and Crest are all American made.

And while you certainly can spend as much as you like, you certainly do not have to!

[oldbuckster]

How does anyone think McIntosh isn't an American Company ? We borrow money everyday from China to support our war effort, so given the logic expressed here, America isn't America because the Chinese Money keeps us a float? Audio Equipment bearing peoples names, Mark Levinson, Conrad Johnson, may be American, for upper earners in America ...............

[mas]

How does anyone think McIntosh isn't an American Company ? We borrow money everyday from China to support our war effort, so given the logic expressed here, America isn't America because the Chinese Money keeps us a float? Audio Equipment bearing peoples names, Mark Levinson, Conrad Johnson, may be American, for upper earners in America ...............

Buc,with your comment I think we have hit the wall in the attempt to find that overly simplistic "made in america" label.

Your objection that McIntosh is American, presumeablby because they are made in America by Americans despite the company being foreign owned, pretty much sinks this entire topic.

If your interpretation is indeed valid, and i have no problem with the definition as it is as good as any other in a very complex business environment characterized by many non-linear relationships, then I think the subject of this entire thread as begun has run its course. After all, by this definition, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Nissan and so many other brands made in America by Americans would no longer be considered as foreign made.

And to a large degree, the overly simplistic attempts to pigeon hole multinational corporations with an active horizontal structure present in many countries, suffers from an attempt to label them in a manner that has ceased to have much meaning.

[]

[oldbuckster]

Doesn't every American Auto Company have atleast one Overseas Auto in it's line-up ; Ford until just alittle while ago had Jaguar, still has Mazda, General Motors have Saab,use a great deal of Toyota engines, also had, and lost Subaru, and who knows what's up with Chrysler Corp., yet I don't hear people say, their NOT American Companies ............ but, what do I know ? Just an oldbuckster that is letting the world pass me bye ...... Gee, come to think of it, my Subaru's are built in Indiana ......... they're from Japan, but assembled in America ..... HUH !!!!!!!!!!!

[Coytee]

Buy Crown. An American company that will not only offer quality sound, but also an economy of cost of operation and maintenance over an incredible lifecycle. Something tubes can only dream about

Heretic! or was that lunatic?

[:|] []

Don't let the secret out about Crown's just yet dude... I'm still trying to get more amps and don't want the prices on ebay to shoot up!!

[:^)]

[Coytee]

As for buying all American...

My logic is... if I can buy a widget and that widget was built buy a US citizen IN the US (keeping the demand for his job in this country) then I'm ok with that AND I'll go out of my way at times to attempt to do just that. It doesn't matter to me if the profits go to Japan (or elsewhere) as long as the job itself is here. I once spent 4 hours going to various hardware stores so I could find a "USA" ratchet tie-down. I finally found 3 and on the 4th one, had to settle for one stamped "China" (which I could have found in the first 15 minutes of me looking) so I could hit the road.

Just like when I got my mom her Honda. (although she thought it was made in China... go figure) It's a Japanese car but made in Marysville Ohio so by buying that car I helped someone in Ohio keep their job.

Perhaps simplistic but that's how I view it.

[jacksonbart]

Check out this

[kevinmi]

OK Guy, here's the deal with American companies vs Foreign Companies building in America. Sure, Americans are making money doing the labor, but the profits are going overseas. Besides that, the non union companies don't have the same wages/benefits of an American/UAW company. Did you know that GM has spent 100 times more on charities in America than all the other Foreign Companies Combined. Ford, Chrysler, and GM have created the middle class in this country, and it is slowly fading away. When Americans can no longer afford to buy the cars made here, watch how fast the Foreign companies pull out without so much a see ya, kiss my a**! Yes, it is a global market, and the American owned companies are bring the profits back to America. There is so much more behind the story besides which nameplate you buy. Don't even get me started on the child labor violations in the foreign countries! Yes, UAW workers cost more than cheap foreign labor, but we are treated like humans (kinda). Anyone who has worked in both a non union shop and a union shop will tell you how different they can be. Yes, we need to be competitive, but not at the cost of reducing human workers to indentured slaves! This thread is supposed to be about audio equipment, and it seem we got a little off track. But it's good to rant sometimes Kevin

[jacksonbart]

Ok, well I think you should only support American Companies that are located in the US, that produce products for US customers and have no foriegn born workers in thier factories and where the company is owned by people who were born in this country and have never travelled abroad or thought about other countries or that think about other countries other than this best mother f@#$@#%ing country. All the share owners of such a company must be US born at least 7th generation and never been in jail in a foriegn country or have had relations with foriegn born people all the while paying thier taxes and saluting the US flag. Anyone know of such a company?

[Oblio]

c.f. Big Box Mart on JibJab.com (can't link here from work as JibJab is blocked)

Go check it out, its funny, and true.

[mas]

Fair's fair, even for foreign car manufacturers - The American Automobile Labeling Act - Fair Comment

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n42_v10/ai_16294562

""Buy American" used to be the
easy-to-understand slogan of the jingoistically correct. That was in
the good old days, when an American car was an American car, and
"furrin" cars were foreign. If it said Ford on the fender, it came from
Dearborn. Of course, in those days, Nissan was still called Datsun and
General Motors still fancied fake wood trim.

Today, you can't be sure where the car you're looking at really comes from - no matter whose brand name adorns its flanks.

The Ford Windstar and Crown Victoria, for example, are built
entirely in Canada - as are all of GM's Camaros and Firebirds. The
Chrysler Grand Cherokee, Intrepid and Voyager minivan also come from
the Great White North - yet all are considered domestic products under
a crazy new law called the American Automobile Labeling Act.

Passed by Congress in 1992 with the always helpful
stewardship of Maryland's Little Giant, Democratic Sen. Barbara
Mikulski, but effective beginning this October, the AALA requires that
all new cars sold in this country display a parts-content label that
provides consumers with information regarding the car's origin and the
origin of the components used to build it. The idea implicit in the
AALA seems to be to heighten buyers' awareness of "non-American" (read
Asian) vehicles, thereby heightening the patriotic pressure to "Buy
American."

Whether you agree or disagree with the idea behind the AALA, the
way it will actually work on the showroom floor should offend your
sense of fairness and honesty. The law is structured to give foreign
manufacturers virtually no credit for the cars they build right here in
the good old U.S.A. - while overstating the American-built content of
Big Three products.

Consider the first line on the forthcoming label that you'll soon
see on new car windows: "U.S./Canadian parts content." This verbiage
allows Ford, GM and Chrysler to count the vehicles they assemble in
Canada - a foreign country - as "domestic," while a Honda built in Ohio
is labeled to look imported. How is that done? Simple. You just average
the total production figures of a particular model, combining cars
built in the United States with those built, say, in Japan. Thus, if
half of this year's run of Accords are built in Ohio and the rest in
Japan, the crafty label says the "domestic content" of the Accord
you're looking at is only 50 percent - even if the car was built
entirely on U.S. soil.

The AALA also excludes the value of final assembly work on cars and
components performed in this country by foreign manufacturers. If
Nissan makes a part for the 300ZX in Tennessee, the value of that part
cannot be counted toward the domestic content of the completed car -
yet parts made in America or Canada by the Big Three do count toward
the domestic value of their finished cars.

Even worse, if the part involved comes from a wholly owned
subsidiary of a Big Three manufacturer - for example, AC-Delco in the
case of GM - that manufacturer can claim full credit for the amount of
U.S.-Canadian content while the exact same part, if sold to a Japanese
manufacturer (which is commonplace in the industry), receives no credit
for "domestic" content unless the part has more than 70 percent
U.S.-Canadian content. This artful contortion is called "roll-up, roll
down," and it unfairly denies foreign manufacturers credit for the
hundreds of millions of dollars of American- and Canadian-built parts
they buy every year for installation in the vehicles they sell in this
country.

If you find all of this confusing, just try to decipher the actual
labels the next time you shop for a new car. I have no objection to
informing buyers about the origin of a car or its parts. But fair is
fair, and the foreign manufacturers who've invested vast sums in this
country and employ thousands of American workers should be given credit
for what they've done - just like the Big Three."

[kevinmi]

Ok, well I think you should only support American Companies that are located in the US, that produce products for US customers and have no foriegn born workers in thier factories and where the company is owned by people who were born in this country and have never travelled abroad or thought about other countries or that think about other countries other than this best mother f@#$@#%ing country. All the share owners of such a company must be US born at least 7th generation and never been in jail in a foriegn country or have had relations with foriegn born people all the while paying thier taxes and saluting the US flag. Anyone know of such a company?

Geeeez, I guessed you didn't read my rant too well. I never dissed foreign people, as a matter of fact I was supporting them by opposing the way Foreign companies abuse their children. They are made to work in deplorable conditions for 12 to 16 hours a day with a pittance for pay. WalMart and other "discount" outlets support this by buying their merchandise, making it near impossible to break this exploitation.WE support it every time we try to save a dollar and shop at these places. I don't care if you drive a Toyota and shop at Walmart. I choose not to, but I'll still love ya if you do! Remember, this is a Klipsch Forum-an American Company. No more personal slams please-not lady like

[mas]

Did you know that GM has spent 100 times more on charities in America than all the other Foreign Companies Combined.

...

Anyone who has worked in both a non union shop and a union shop will tell you how different they can be.

GM would do better to build cars more efficiently and charge less for them rather than assuming the role of charging more and redistributing our income for us as if they are better at deciding how our money should be spent than we are. Thanks GM.

I have. That is why I support right to work and not forced membership in a self-perpetuating organization that comprises a mirror image of the 'evil' management structure they claim to oppose. If I need to be physically threatened against disagreeing with a 'party line', it will be from something other than an organization for whom we have no say as to whether we belong. The world would be better off without protection agencies like the Teamsters and the CWA.

[oldenough]

I have. That is why I support right to work and not forced membership in a self-perpetuating organization that comprises a mirror image of the 'evil' management structure they claim to oppose. If I need to be physically threatened against disagreeing with a 'party line', it will be from something other than an organization for whom we have no say as to whether we belong. The world would be better off without protection agencies like the Teamsters and the CWA.

On that you will get my total agreement. Their time has long passed.

[oldbuckster]

Where's JIMMY HOFFA when you need him ??? That was a great man ................. It's now a Global World I guess, like it or not, that's what we now have.... The BUYER has the final say of where their money is spent ...............

[mas]

Don't you just love the ever emotional moralistic rants that extol the virtues of some as they denigrate the efforts of others?

You see, if you sell more product, whatever it is, be it books, records, tickets, electronics, whatever - that makes you somehow guilty of some perceived moral infraction. And its simply not fair to those who work hard but whose efforts address a smaller market.

The folks in the entertainment biz, be it music, movies or sports, etc., don't make the big bucks because of their specific talent or any other immoral or imagined reason for which SOME would fault them. Rather they make the big bucks because whatever it is they do sells to a HUGE extended audience. In other words, instead of doing something of value for one person, they do something that hundreds or thousands or millions will pay for - be in media sales, concerts, ball games, TV, manufacturing or whatever.

And I can't get over how some self righteous folks denigrate that fact and confuse it with their moralistic judgment of what it is that they do.

But then, when was the last time you ever saw some chauffer driven Union bigwig suffer while the minions who pay their salaries were out on strike or got laid off? Hmmm? As if they are any different than the lobbyists who the moralists also denigrate. What makes those overpaid fatcats worth more than the minions they claim to represent?

Oh...or do they claim that their work benefits SO many so they are entitled to more? The logic is great when you can quote it to support your own self interest...but suddenly it fails when they are talking about others!

And while we are on lobbyists... Let's discuss that. What is their purpose? Well.2 things. One is to obtain special consideration in each years tax budget structure (in other words, tax breaks!) and to minimize the impact of regulatory intervention. Funny how the Libs universally oppose a flat tax where EVERYONE over about $50K pays a set rate. EVERYONE. That's you, me, and Exxon. Period.

No corporate welfare and exhaustive deductions leading to large corporations and politicians and labor union bosses paying no tax. No deductions for that grandiose 2nd house in the DC suburbs that the politicians awarded themselves a raise to buy because property values were just so high - that then becomes their own personal appreciating asset that they are under no obligation to return once they leave office. (Seems to me they could live in a Congressional dorm while the Congress was in session until they have to actually go HOME. And how many actually do except for a photo op publicity fund raising tour? Heck, Al Gore didn't grow up in Tennessee!) And revenue actually increases.

And what is the major secondary benefit. A major role of the lobbyist is eliminated. And the last 40 years of groups like Common Cause who talk a great moralistic game but whose goal has been totally ineffectual is achieved simply and easily. Swoosh. The lobbyists and the IRS have to get real jobs! Sounds good to me, despite the subsequent increase in unemployment.

But don't ask where Big Labor is on that topic...You know, the one's who care about the little people, but who they themselves are no longer of... And Don't ask the position of the others who are so moralistic and claim to represent the 'little guy'! No! They are too busy enjoying rubbing elbows and living the life of the rich and powerful as they issue their diatribes extolling the virtues of the 'common man'.

But listening to the NE equivalent of OJ talking about the rights of others is rather entertaining .

But back to regular people... Remember them? Gee, say if someone makes a product that MANY people over a non-restricted geographical area will buy, versus say something I do that only benefits one other person in my neighborhood, why shouldn't they be entitled to make more? Are they bad?

And does that make me entitled to the fruit of their efforts? But some here would lament the fact that some people's efforts are better compensated by virtue that MORE PEOPLE find value in their efforts And that has nothing to do with the amount of talent or education. Nor should it.

I am tired of others sanctimoniously judging what the value of other's effort and labor is worth. The market decides, which is to say, you, me and everyone else decides by virtue of how we spend our money. And we spend it in a way that brings us the most satisfaction (as I cannot say it brings us the most value, or we wouldn't be spending it on expensive doodads instead of investing in wealth generating assets/investments!). But it is our choice, however flawed we may be.

And I have been in a union, (several without choice actually), thank you. And I only wish that they ever asked me my opinion. But I have had it explained in no uncertain terms that if we spoke up at a meeting to disagree with a proposal that it would be at great risk to our physical integrity - IOW, our @sses.

And I don't need anyone telling me what I am worth, be in politicians or some equally divorced union boss surrounded by his chauffeur and non-neck body guards. And if someone writes a book that millions want to read, or hits a ball that millions want to see in person and on TV, or designs a piece of electronic gear that millions want, or records a record that millions want to buy, or anything else that leverages the power of he non-linear market space, congrats to them.

That makes them no better nor worse than anyone else. And it certainly does not entitle me nor anyone else to decide how much money they should be entitled to make - meaning of course, that we decide how much of their income that we self-righteously entitle ourselves!

In that sense, the moralistic 'cure' is worse than the perceived disease.