bigdaddy Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 I personally think it's a bad move. You can barely find Klipsch in any Boutique store as it is. Now there are Internet vendors who advertise at full retail, but will slash prices with nothing more than a phone call. How long before there are no high end shops that will carry the product at all? I wouldn't carry a product if the company allowed someone who has less overhead to sell the product at greatly reduced prices and basically leaves me stuck with product I have to sell at less than I would need to make money. That's just my opinion, but it seems the companies like Paradigm and B&W control everything a little tighter and have very loyal dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 It's a tough call, the problem is they have been unable to stop the un-authorized dealers selling on-line. (who I have lost sales to) I guess they gave up, you know, if you can't beat em' join em'. I don't think they would need to allow internet sales, if they could stop the un-auth. sales. It's kinda funny you get auctions canceled for stupid stuff. But the ebay seller who always has an RF-83 SYSTEM (full ht) doesn't seem to get bothered. There is an ebay seller you had 60th Ann. KHORNS listed with 14 available. I reported it to my rep. but nothing came of it. I suggested they order something small from the guy, this would give a serial #, then they would know what dealer was screwing them and us...... 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Brac, You are a Klipsch dealer? I guess I've been glad to see the authorized dealers make internet sales, because it's so hard to find Heritage in a brick and mortar store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaddy Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 And that is also part of the problem. I did a search on Klipsch dealers in my area(Dallas) Almost all of them were HT installers who have no facility that you can actually hear the product at. This will just make it worse. Right now we have Best Buy, a newer store chain called starpower, and that is all I could find that have showrooms. We used to have Ultimate Electronics but they pulled out of Texas. So when there are no more places to demo who will buy? The fans they already have will buy for a long while but will they eventually lose more and more customers till they just can't sustain it anymore? As to the issue of unauthorized sales, it would be easy to find out the chain of possession and remove those dealers who are breaking the rules. Buying product and looking at serial numbers is an easy way to do it. Another would be to take a seller to court and make it extremely unattractive to sell unauthorized product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 You should first find out if dealer is AUTHORIZED ........ I bought my Heresy's at Audio Classics, that's 3 1/2 hours one way for me, but I wanted Klipsch, so that's what I did ..... If you want them bad enough, you'll figure out away to get them ..... Klipsch has been in business a long time without us telling them what they should, and shouldn't do ...... Let Klipsch worry about marketing, We'll worry about listening !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def Leper Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Wow, I don't think I've ever seen so many people who want to overpay for something. In general I think Klipsch products are substantially overpriced, and any avenue to get a more reasonable price on these plastic and particle board boxes is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Interesting topic on allowing "low-overhead" internet sellers to undercut dealers with displays. The US Supreme Court has allowed price-fixing in a recent opinion for manufacturers who want to protect dealers from price-competition. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/29/business/28cnd-bizcourt.html?ex=1340769600&en=0b4c106d96a846ae&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss (Where do I send my bill?) [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaddy Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 You think Klipsch is overpriced? You need to go look at some B&W or Paradigms or heck just for fun go look at Wilson watt puppies, Totem Hawks, The line array that Macintosh builds. There are tons of speakers that sell for a lot more than Klipsch products do and I don't know of one that doesn't use MDF bodies with a veneer or vinyl covering on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted April 22, 2008 Moderators Share Posted April 22, 2008 Speaking personally (since I am not in on these types of decisions), I'd be willing to bet we'd love to stay exclusively in specialty retailers. It was a hard decision to enter Best Buy a few years back, and I'm sure it was an even harder decision to allow online sales. Bottom line is, we have to evolve with the marketplace to stay competitive. We need to offer our products where people shop. Not just the audio enthusiasts, but the average consumer as well. It's a dog eat dog world out there. [] (and stopping the unauthorized sales is a lot harder than you would think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Daddy Dee, the simple answer is yes. Do you think people that are not Klipsch junkies, will spend a few thousand dollars on speakers they have never seen or heard? Or do you think the people who are buying an RF-83 HT on ebay, drove to a dealer (however far) and had an audition, then went online to spend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Amy, I can imagine that it would be quite a challenge to deal with unauthorized dealers. I was browsing Ebay this morning for Klipsch headphones and found these three below among several units listed. Looks like just these three Ebay sellers carrying the headphones. They are "thrillingaudio" "supply_sale" and "cyber yazgan". I thought supply_sale looked especially fishy with a BIN for refurbished headphones for over $500. I had two questions about these auctions. First, are any of these authorized dealers? A couple of them look like they could be legit. The second question, can you (or the company contracted by Klipsch) direct Ebay to pull the plug on auctions by unauthorized dealers? http://cgi.ebay.com/KLIPSCH-AUDIO-1007328-Smallest-in-ear-headphone-ever-ma_W0QQitemZ160232816558QQihZ006QQcategoryZ11175QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/KLIPSCH-Custom-3-Earphones-Earbuds-Monitors-Headphones_W0QQitemZ350046301070QQihZ022QQcategoryZ111693QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247 http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-KLIPSCH-CUSTOM-2-IN-EAR-HEADPHONES-EARBUDS-IPOD-MP3_W0QQitemZ280189250870QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3274QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I sort of have the feeling that people buy Klipsch more often because they heard some that their friends or family members owned. That's how I became familiar with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Daddy Dee, the simple answer is yes. Do you think people that are not Klipsch junkies, will spend a few thousand dollars on speakers they have never seen or heard? Or do you think the people who are buying an RF-83 HT on ebay, drove to a dealer (however far) and had an audition, then went online to spend? Brac, I can imagine that the scenario you mention is adverse for brick and mortar dealers. Authorized dealers selling on line would all charge sales tax, I'm thinking. Unauthorized types selling tax free would be all the more attractive to buyers willing to buy gray market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I think the tax rules are the same, if you don't have a location in the state you are shipping to you don't charge tax. Un-authorized yes, but still a business don't you think?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Yes. Just an observation here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted April 22, 2008 Moderators Share Posted April 22, 2008 I think the tax rules are the same, if you don't have a location in the state you are shipping to you don't charge tax. Un-authorized yes, but still a business don't you think?? That is correct. You have to charge sales tax in states where you have an established facility (offices, storefront, warehouse, etc). Dee, I am "familiar" with those headphone sellers on ebay that you mentioned. None of them are authorized. We can only pull their auctions if they violate copyright laws or claim Klipsch warranty, as we discussed before. We cannot pull auctions simply because they are able to get their hands on inventory somehow. We have tried to determine where companies like these get our products, but have been unsuccessful thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 That would be interesting detective work. I'm somewhat surprised that Ebay would not shut down unauthorized sellers at the request of the manufacturer. I'm supposing that these sellers are able to buy stock from some "authorized" dealer willing to sell out the back door. I'd think it more unlikely, but possible, that an authorized seller would sell under another identity on Ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted April 22, 2008 Moderators Share Posted April 22, 2008 Do you think people that are not Klipsch junkies, will spend a few thousand dollars on speakers they have never seen or heard? Or do you think the people who are buying an RF-83 HT on ebay, drove to a dealer (however far) and had an audition, then went online to spend? Hi Brac, I'm from a bit of a different school of thought in this regard. As a consumer, if I'm going to take the time to drive to a dealer to look at something, dern straight I'm going to buy it right there on the spot as well. I do not like waiting for shipments, taking the risk of transit damage, or entering my credit card information online unneccessarily. The only reason I would purchase something online is if I couldn't find it locally. I believe online sales will ultimately help local dealers, because consumers would rather listen before buying audio equipment. The exposure of the product line on the internet gets the word out and the brand recognition to motivate people to give us a listen. The local dealer then has the opportunity to close the sale. That's how I view the relationship, anyway. Hopefully, we can grow the brand so there are sales enough for all channels... If you have any concerns or questions, or come across shady unauthorized dealers, please don't hesitate to contact me directly. I will work with our sales team to get you the help you need. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted April 22, 2008 Moderators Share Posted April 22, 2008 That would be interesting detective work. I'm somewhat surprised that Ebay would not shut down unauthorized sellers at the request of the manufacturer. I'm supposing that these sellers are able to buy stock from some "authorized" dealer willing to sell out the back door. I'd think it more unlikely, but possible, that an authorized seller would sell under another identity on Ebay. Think of this: what if you wanted to sell your Reference speakers to someone on ebay? Would it be ok for us to stop you just because we are the manufacturer? It's the same thing. These are garage-sale like dealers, and if they aren't violating any laws, we cannot prevent it. We can only stop their source, which isn't always easy. Both of the scenarios you mention do happen. Once those dealers are caught, their accounts are closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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