Kain Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 In your opinion, which is better and why. This could be an important factor for me while deciding on a DVD player. ------------------ Home Theater: Display: Sony VPL-VW11HT LCD Projector Receiver: Denon AVC-A11SR (European version of Denon AVR-4802) DVD Player: Sony DVP-S9000ES Center: Klipsch RC-7 Mains: Klipsch RF-7s Surrounds: Klipsch RS-7s Subwoofer: SVS CS-Ultra w/Samson S1000 amplifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montigue Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 I was listening to DVD audio the other day and i could tell that the highs and lows were defined. The bass is flat very flat and the highs were clean. I like it, I like it alot... but wheres the software?....dunno bout the SACD. Regards Monty R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Kain, You ask a lot of subjective type questions where you will get a lot of subjective type responses. Everybody's hearing is different and the only ears that matter here are yours. You need to get out to some of these stores and determine for yourself which you like better. At the moment, not too many people have both of these players. It just doesn't make sense to have both (too much space on the rack, 12 more interconnect cables, no receivers handle External Input for 2 machines, etc). You might get some responses from those that have brought both machines home and did an A/B. Of course, they will had to have bought 2 different types of software (SACD, SVD-A) of which they will only be able to use one of them when their choice is complete. For me personally, I wanted a player that was Progressive Scan and DVD-A and chose the Panasonic RP91. I really like this machine a lot and DVD-A sounds better than anything I have heard up to this point. I'm sure the SACD camp will say the same thing about their players... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobCurran Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 The only reason I got a DVD-audio player was because my Toshiba had great reviews, was well-priced for the quality of gear, and it had many other specs that I wanted. The DVD-Audio capability was icing on the cake. I feel it would pretty hard to pick one format over the other. Lets face it, both are arguably equal at reproducing sound as it was recorded. If I was to select one over the other, my decision factors would be: availability of material, industry and market treads (which format is the next BETA), and cost of equipment and material. A great homework assignment for someone wanting to make a truly information choice. Post your result here! ------------------ A/V AMP: Yamaha DSP-A1 TV: 29" Sony Trinitron DVD: Toshiba SD9200 CDP: Denon DCM-370 MAIN: Klipsch Heresey II CTR: Klipsch KSF-C5 REAR: Infinity SM-65 (crap) SUB: Infinity BU-1 (crap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 SACDs have magazine endorsements as the better audio format, but there is wind in the DVD-A sails which manufacturers and retailers are not using yet. The DVD-A format has the potential for wider frequency response, dynamic range as real as live music and six channels of recorded information. Yet the product and the market are not there, yet. First the public has to get their fill of six channel video, then the industry will do doubt wheel out another improvement. I heard the new Sony SACD player when it first came out - on the dealers long standing B&W and Krell combination, in the sumptuous red velvet quiet luxury of their highest end salon. The massive player is still sitting there today, topping the rack of silver Krell boxes, next to the Krell concrete block amp and a pair of curvaceous cherry B&W 802s. I played the Sony demo CD and a favorite of mine the Paul Simon Rhythm of the Saints with its lush tropical sound and its 12 piece band. They both sounded good. Unlike some of the audio pundits, my first impression was not that here was suddenly the sound of vinyl in a more practical, marketable format. My first impression was that for a $5,000 piece of heavy brushed metal disc player, it had better sound good. And the Paul Simon classic did sound wonderful on this high-end, big buck system, but no new secrets were startling revealed to me. For your system, however, though SACD may seem to be the next step in quality sound, I would look at musical sounding seperates ... ------------------ Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUiKSR20 Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Hmmm So I guess you cant play DVD Audio disks in any standard DVD Player? I Thought since it was DVD still it would play.. Thats stinks.. I wonder why they cant just make DVD Audio on the format as a movie. ------------------ Thanks, Daryl Gregg MY Home Theatre Page Sony STR-DE975 HT Reciever Sony DVP-NS400D DVD SB-3 Mains SC-1 Center Quintet Rears KSW-12 Sub AR Proseries Interconects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Most DVD-A discs come with a 2-channel version that will utilize the digital cable coming from the DVD player (PCM mode - getting the bass mgmt from your receiver) or can be played thru the analog cables also (there is no .1 channel here). Some also come with a DD 5.1 version but the analog version is 10 times better (imho). As long as the player can play DVD-V discs, they will play on that machine... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobCurran Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Mike, 10x better! REALLY It must be differences between our gear. I've got high-quality connectors, both digital and analog, to my Intergrated Amp. And the DAC in my DVD Player and Intergrated Amp are also pretty good, IMHO. I have noticed that when my SD9200's DAC is employed I get a little more bass extension, but friends and family can't hear. ------------------ A/V AMP: Yamaha DSP-A1 TV: 29" Sony Trinitron DVD: Toshiba SD9200 CDP: Denon DCM-370 MAIN: Klipsch Heresey II CTR: Klipsch KSF-C5 REAR: Infinity SM-65 (crap) SUB: Infinity BU-1 (crap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 My connectors are pretty decent as well, as is my equipment. Ten times might be a bit much, but the difference using the Advanced Resolution Surround versus the DVD-Video compatible Dolby Digital on these discs is pretty evident. It's night and day on my system. Like you, the DAC's in my 4800 and RP91 are close in specs, but I prefer to listen to DD 5.1/DTS music videos thru the analog cables (RP91 DAC's instead of the 4800's). This is even though I don't have any bass mgmt using the RP91's. There is better separation between the instruments and voices, and it just seems clearer and more defined. Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 The Analog connections definitely sound better than the digital. I also have the DVD-RP91, and everyone I've played it for has heard a difference, even my wife. If she can tell, there definitely is a difference. 10x or no, it is night and day. Mike, you say the RP91 doesn't have bass management? What is the Multi-Channel set up for then? You can set the speaks to small or large, I assumed this was for bass mgmt. I set all my speakers to large anyway, but still...... ------------------ My Home Theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 have you guys tried playing a 2.0 or 5.0 dvd-audio format disk w/ the direct (analog connects) outputs & inputs. if u have bass mgmt in the player, you'll get sub output. if you don't no sub. i don't have the player, but i think most players have bass mgmt only in their digital domains. not for dvd-audio. there are some real new denon that do for dvd-audio and others. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 boa, When you play the 2.0 version (Advanced Resolution Stereo) you get nothing to your subwoofer if you are still monitoring the External Inputs (analog cables) on the receiver. Todd, just because you can set your speakers to small or large doesn't mean anything. I think that is for the digital setup only. I believe that will come into effect if your receiver didn't have any bass mgmt or DD5.1/DTS decoding (I could be wrong here). When you play a multi-channel DVD-A disc, you are only getting the .1 channel to your subwoofer. Play the 2-channel version and keep it on the External Inputs from your receiver. Go feel the woofer from the sub. I'll bet there's nothing coming out of it... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 sacd; no 'pcm' of any variety in the process; dsd most closely mirrors the original from which the copy is made. oh yeah, sony makes it. avman. ------------------ 1-pair klf 30's c-7 center ksps-6 surrounds RSW-15 on the way!! sony strda-777ES receiver upgraded to v.2.02 including virtual matrix 6.1 sony playstation 2 sony dvpnc 650-v 5-disc dvd/cd/SACD changer dishnetwork model 7200 dishplayer satellite receiver/digital bitstream recorder sony kv36xbr450 high-definition 4:3 tv sharp xv-z1u lcd projector w/$22 vinyl pull-down window shade 'screen'-rough side out Bello'international Italian-made a/v furniture panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner monster cable and nxg interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 hey av, any sacd players w/ built-in bass mgmt for the actual sacd format/decoding yet? ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willjam Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Mike Lindsey: boa, When you play a multi-channel DVD-A disc, you are only getting the .1 channel to your subwoofer. Play the 2-channel version and keep it on the External Inputs from your receiver. Go feel the woofer from the sub. I'll bet there's nothing coming out of it... Mike This may be the case for DVD-A, but the Sony SACD players have bass management that work with 2 channel SACDs. My experience with 2 Channel SACDs played through a Denon with 6 Channel EXT is you get bass response. The bass management function on the Sony gives you a choice of speaker sizes as well as select to use Sub or no Sub and work only on SACDs. However, my experience with regular CDs played in the 6 Channel EXT mode you get no sub response. The sub will play only in the digital domain. This can be a pain if you choice to mix CDs. Unless the CD is a Hybrid, it will not play digitally. If a regular CD is played in 6 Channel EXT, you get no bass response. ------------------ Bill J. My Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 wj, so using the direct outs/ins (ext mode on the denon) w/ a 2 channel sacd, your sub works? well then guess some or most sacd players do have their own bass mgmt. must be just most dvd-audio players that don't have. guess that's why they don't mention sacd w/ the outlaw icbm (i think). that answers my ? to av. & yea for regular 2 channel pcm disks (non-sacd) you have to use the digital connect for bass mgmt. or the 2 channel analog outputs of your sacdp into analog ins of your denon does i think use the denon's a/d, d/a & dsp. the direct outs/ins don't use the a/d, d/a converters nor the dsp of the denon. ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 01-24-2002 at 11:20 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willjam Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Boa, that my experience with 2 channel SACDs and a Sony C222ES with bass management. I have not been able to determine if the bass management in the Sony does anything at all on non-SACDs played in the digital domain. One good thing I have not had to readjustment my sub when I switch between 6 channel EXT and PCM. So this is a good thing. But there is definite no bass if I play a non-SACD in EXT. ------------------ Bill J. My Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 bill, yea my guess is on a pcm cd your sacd does no bass mgmt on the digital connection, leaving it up to your denon. same on my dvd-video player, will do bass mgmt on the direct outs but not on the digital. or maybe it does on the digital connect, but the dig processor in the pre/pro overrides it. what happens if you play a 5.0 sacd disk? would imagine it'll send the lows from all channels set small in your sacdp to the sub. or maybe just from the front channels? well, anyway whatever sounds good? so for me sacd or dvd-audio player is the question. think i'll wait for the all in one w/ the new firewire tech. or better yet a digital connection. tired of buying all those interconnects. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 I am not sure the bass management issue is relevent for the best reproduction of music. According to the instructions with the Telarc 1812 overture (multi-channel SACD) the best results are obtained using the sub connected to the front channel speaker outs, thereby bypassing all bass management. As I do not have a surround sound amplifier (2 stereo amps) I am setup in this way. I suppose it depends on what you are looking for. For me I want music to be played continuously through the sub, but for the sub to integrate as seemlessly as possible with my mains. This is the effect I have achieved and I can tell you that surround sound SACD's (I have 17 of them now) produce a sound that is massively better than anything else I have heard. I think that the SACD / DVDa war may well end before the end of this year. One of the 2 consortia will back out and one will be left. My money is on SACD to survive - as you can tell - but who knows? I am working on the philosophy that if I can get to an SACD population of 100 disks (at 53 as I write) that will be critical mass for me and I could survive SACD withdrawal from the market after that. Right now those 53 disks are all I listen to. Any offers on 750 CD's and 200 DVD's??? ------------------ 2 * Heresy 2 (mains) 2 * Homemade horn speakers (rears) 1 * REL Strata 3 sub Accuphase E211 amp. Tube monoblocks with separate pre-amp (solid state). Marantz CD6000 player Sony NS900 SACD/DVD player Stax Headphones Humax 5400 digital satellite receiver Sharp Video 32" Sony flat screen 16:9 TV Mogami interconnects Silver Synergistic speaker cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Max, Your sub must have an internal amp. If mine did, I would probably run mine the same way (off the main speaker outs). Unfortunately, mine has no amp and is passive to boot. That's why I ordered the ICBM. I hope this little guy does as advertised. I'm especially looking forward to hearing my DVD-A's in 2-channel mode with the subwoofer kicking in. My mains only go down to 39hz and I'm sure I'm missing some good stuff. Especially on the Bach Organ Works by Hans-Andre Stamm. Will let you know how it turns out... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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