OT: Acceleration explained

[Tom Adams]

Just some fun info...........

You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter "twin-turbo" powered Corvette Z06. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past the dragster at an honest 200mph. The 'tree' goes green for both of you at that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you just passed him.

Now THAT'S acceleration!

Oh - and some more useless information about Tp Fuel dragsters:

* One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500.

* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1½ gallons of nitromethane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced.

* A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the dragster supercharger.

* With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.

* At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitromethane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F.

* Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases.

* Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.

* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow.

* If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half.

[sunburnwilly]

Yep , the quickest accelerating vehicles on the planet . Can't wait till Sept. when the Z-Max all cocrete dragway opens for biz in Charlotte NC ! Definitely closer for me than Gainsville and Atlanta !

Starting this weekend and for the forseeable future fuel dragsters and funny cars will be limited to 1,000 ft . As a result of Scott Kallitas tragic top end accident . All other classes will run the full 1,320 .

[Jay481985]

Oh - and some more useless information about Tp Fuel dragsters:

* One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500.

Take out the restricter plate and various other limiters..... and that 4 rows will be 1 row. Also race cars need to factor the account of fuel economy... yes fuel economy so the car doesn't have to fuel every other lap which takes valuable time. If I remember correctly, most modern races are won not on sheer power or speed but its about who manages the best lap time and fuel management.

* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1½ gallons of nitromethane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced.

Thats cause nitromethane has much more energy per mol than jet fuel. Also if they use nitromethane on planes, I believe the metal turbine fins would melt. Still though that is pretty crazy.

* A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the dragster supercharger.

I seen one of those superchargers on a dragster, its huge

* With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.

* At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitromethane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F.

* Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases.

I thought it burned clear? Thats why they stopped using it on most race cars like indy or f1 cause if the car caught fire, you couldn't tell.

* Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.

* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow.

* If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half.

This is still some seriously impressive facts.

[Islander]

thought it burned clear? Thats why they stopped using it on most race cars like indy or f1 cause if the car caught fire, you couldn't tell.

It's alcohol (methanol) that burns clear, causing some odd scenes in the pits at Indycar races where people are jumping around to get away from invisible flames.

F1 cars use premium pump gasoline, similar to regular gas. More info on that here:
http://www.f1technical.net/articles/19

The Indy cars ran methanol for many years, but switched to ethanol (E100) in 2006. Methanol and ethanol are two of the thirteen varieties of alcohol.

According to Indypacecars.com: "One of the pace cars is a customized Corvette Z06 E85 concept that runs on E85 ethanol fuel, a domestically produced alternative fuel similar to the E100 fuel that powers all of the racecars in the IndyCar Series."

http://www.indypacecars.com/2008.htm

[sunburnwilly]

Actually Jay an unrestricted "Stock Car" can generate around 800 HP . A top fuel dargster or funny car is in excess of 8,000 HP . Here is where one of Toms facts are wrong . At Daytona and Talledega Nascar cars are restricted/limited to around 400 HP . So in reality a single fuel car has as much HP as the first 10 rows of cars at Daytona and Talledega , the first 5 rows at any other track they run .

One cylinder of a fuel burning engine is equivilant in HP as an unrestricted Nascar engine .

Oh yeah , Nitro is a petroleum based fuel . The clear burning fuel you were thinking of is Alchohol .

[Edgar]

You keep your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you just passed him.

At 200 mph, you travel 1/4 mile in 4.5 seconds. The Top Fuel record is 4.428 seconds. It's close, but the dragster wins by about 21 feet.

[Daddy Dee]

Tom,

great post. thanks for the info.

[Jay481985]

Actually Jay an unrestricted "Stock Car" can generate around 800 HP . A top fuel dargster or funny car is in excess of 8,000 HP . Here is where one of Toms facts are wrong . At Daytona and Talledega Nascar cars are restricted/limited to around 400 HP . So in reality a single fuel car has as much HP as the first 10 rows of cars at Daytona and Talledega , the first 5 rows at any other track they run .

One cylinder of a fuel burning engine is equivilant in HP as an unrestricted Nascar engine .

Oh yeah , Nitro is a petroleum based fuel . The clear burning fuel you were thinking of is Alchohol .

they can produce more but in my thinking, the engineers have to include all the restricting things unlike the drag race cars (I use drag race cars as generic meaning anything from topfuel etc) If any of the races were to be truely unrestricted then you would see horsepower and torque jump up to crazy amounts really fast. It is because of the restrictors that keeps horsepower and torque and other things down. Engine size would skyrocket and records shattered.

[sunburnwilly]

Jay you may not realize it but fuel cars are restricted . The question of what they would be capable of unrestricted was asked to long time fuel racer Don Garlits . He said unrestricted they would run sub 4 seconds at around 375mph , In a quarter mile !!!

[Jay481985]

thought it burned clear? Thats why they stopped using it on most race cars like indy or f1 cause if the car caught fire, you couldn't tell.

It's alcohol (methanol) that burns clear, causing some odd scenes in the pits at Indycar races where people are jumping around to get away from invisible flames.

F1 cars use premium pump gasoline, similar to regular gas. More info on that here:
http://www.f1technical.net/articles/19

The Indy cars ran methanol for many years, but switched to ethanol (E100) in 2006. Methanol and ethanol are two of the thirteen varieties of alcohol.

According to Indypacecars.com: "One of the pace cars is a customized Corvette Z06 E85 concept that runs on E85 ethanol fuel, a domestically produced alternative fuel similar to the E100 fuel that powers all of the racecars in the IndyCar Series."

http://www.indypacecars.com/2008.htm

Indy car switched cause the farmers association wanted them to use ethanol to make if more known about ethanol blends and additives to normal cars. Also I remember a friend big into r/c cars said nitromethane would burn clear. But now I checked wikipedia and saw that r/c car run on a methanol/nitromethane/castor oil blend in which methanol is the highest percentage.

[Jay481985]

Jay you may not realize it but fuel cars are restricted . The question of what they would be capable of unrestricted was asked to long time fuel racer Don Garlits . He said unrestricted they would run sub 4 seconds at around 375mph , In a quarter mile !!!

I do know they have some restriction built for safety but they are still much less restricted than any race car out there. But I will say this, this is an apple versus orange comparison. If I was in that z06 described before, atleast I still have fuel in the tank after the 1/4 mile run versus the dragster that just used all 21 gallons on that 1/4 mile.

[Islander]

But I will say this, this is an apple versus orange comparison. If I was in that z06 described before, atleast I still have fuel in the tank after the 1/4 mile run versus the dragster that just used all 21 gallons on that 1/4 mile.

All its fuel, plus its engine. Those Top Fuel engines have a service life of less than a minute. Does anyone know the total cost of a single run for a Top Fuel car?

[jheis]

Yeah,

As it is, each of those 1,320 ft runs costs about $20K.

[sunburnwilly]

But I will say this, this is an apple versus orange comparison. If I was in that z06 described before, atleast I still have fuel in the tank after the 1/4 mile run versus the dragster that just used all 21 gallons on that 1/4 mile.

All its fuel, plus its engine. Those Top Fuel engines have a service life of less than a minute. Does anyone know the total cost of a single run for a Top Fuel car?

It's been stated many times during national events that the cost is between 7k and 8k per run . "If they don't hurt anything ."

[dkp]

But will it take off? []

[oldenough]

But will it take off?

OH Yeah.. It can....and sometimes they do..[]

[Tom Adams]

Starting this weekend and for the forseeable future fuel dragsters and funny cars will be limited to 1,000 ft . As a result of Scott Kallitas tragic top end accident . All other classes will run the full 1,320 .

Oh man......don't EVEN get me started on this.

Plainly stated - it ain't a sport if it can't kill ya!!

Every time we have a racer get killed, the first thing that the sanctioning bodies do (with the hands of the lawyers & insurance companies up their backs making their mouths move) is to start monkeying around with rules and what-not. P*SSES ME OFF!!!!

Back in the '90's the cars got too quick and NHRA mandated the rear end gearing. And now this. I'm sorry but the 1/4 mile has been and always will be the de-facto distance for comparative performance drag racing. Just as 0 - 100mph is an accepted "standard". So what do we do now with all the 1/4 records?? Convert them with some made-up factor or do we now have to put an asterick on them?? Hell - maybe we should just wipe the freakin' slate clean and start all over. Someone go ask Big Daddy how he feels about that.

Sheesh - next thing ya know we'll be monkeying around with how gravity is expressed/measured 'cause it hurt someone.

See Willy??? I told you not to get me started. []

Tom

[sunburnwilly]

It was through discussions with the drivers and team owners that they came up with the 1,000 ft rule . The NHRA stated that the significance of the quarter mile is not lost with them and will be back as soon as they can impliment safer conditions for the drivers . I.E. slowing the cars down yet again .

I have a better idea . How about not running on these old outdated tracks ! For economic reasons that will never happen . Tracks like Englishtown , Norwalk , and Pomona to name a few have horribly short shutdown areas .

[sunburnwilly]

But will it take off?

Here's an example from the Pomona track that I mentioned before back in 1994 . Notice how short the runoff area is !

[dkp]

I enjoy the dragsters. The guy who owns the pizza place we frequent also races the smaller version of the top fuel cars. I don't know the exact name/circuit but his brother died while racing. Lots of pictures up in the waiting area.

I was referring to this: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/82113/820952.aspx#820952

I'm sure you remember that lovely thread! []