Would Greatly Appreciate Help Choosing An Amp

[rroobbcc]

Sorry if I missed it, but is there any reason why you are not considering separates? In your situation I would be looking for an Adcom GFA-555II 60w/ch Power Amp($90-120 on Ebay) and an Adcom GTP-500 (or 500II) Preamp/Tuner ($75-120 on Ebay). If you don't need the tuner and want a better phono section, you could look for an Adcom GFP-555 Preamp ($125-$160 on Ebay). I use an Adcom GFA-555II 200w/ch power amp to drive my Forte IIs, which is complete overkill in my home office, but sonically very pleasing. Many Adcom fans feel that the Adcom GFA-535II, while less powerful, was actually sonically superior to the GFA-555II.

On a side note, the system that first turned me on to Klipsch was a pair of LaScalas being driven by an Adcom GFA-535II, which was feed from the variable outputs of an Adcom GCD-575 CD Player. A very simple yet very musical system, to say the least.

Rob

[twistedcrankcammer]

I must take exception to Roger with his ranking of equipment.

He posted:

" I will try to put some brands of the era together to give you an idea of price groupings although I think the pioneer of the day outperformed their monetary bracket:

Bracket 1) Fisher, Emerson, Radio Shack

Bracket 2) JVC, Technics, Pioneer, Kenwood

Bracket 3) NAD, Dennon, Harman Kardon (We are starting to get into the seperates at lower price levels here)

Bracket 4) Nakamichi, Bang & Olfsen, etc. These were the price prohibitive stuff of the day."

Fisher made some fine gear that goes very well with Fort'e speakers. I have personaly used a Fisher amp with my Fort'e speakers and the sound was VERY good. I think the issue here is that he is limiting his thoughts to SS gear and by any account, the SS fisher gear is not all that great, good for a garage setup at best. Fisher tube equipment is a VERY good way to get GREAT sound at a reasonable price. Is it slightly colored? Sure, but then again so is any output from ANY amp, SS or otherwise. The issue is do you like the coloration that you are hearing. I would whole heartedly endorse tube gear for 2 ch as that is what I have and I love. I also have 7,1 HT, and other SS gear in the home and love each for the things that each setup brings to the table. My audio roots are from the 70s so I have heard much of the gear that he recomends and have owned Yamaha when it was cutting edge equipment sold only in high end audio shops. I still own that gear as a matter of fact though it gets used in other lower glamor setups such as in my shop (a setup that will blow away 75% of the home stereo setups!)

I would recomend that you lood at a good solid tube amp such as this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-FISHER-X-100-2-STEREO-TUBE-AMPLIFIER-X100-AMP_W0QQitemZ230278012176QQihZ013QQcategoryZ119019QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

As for bidding at the last second, take it easy on yourself and let the computer do the work for you. Use a service such as

Auctionsniper.com

They give you some free buys to try out the service. You set your max price, the lead time to bid and let the service do the rest. You remove the emotion from the equation this way and you can choose to not bid if you change your mind, something you CAN NOT DO with Ebay if you place a bid through them.

Welcome to his hobby and I wish you luck in your goal to find quality sound to please your ears. Your purchase of the Fort'e speakers are a great start, they were my first Klipsch speakers and I still have them, they are serving as my main speakers in my 7.1 HT.

Wayne

Wayne,

You are correct in your assumption that I was not considdering tube gear for an absolutely new person. I personally think that is a headache to open on a new person for a learning curve, and for one who personally stated his lack of soldering skills, let alone diagnostic skills and limited budget, freedom from problems. I was also comparing units that were specifically available at the same exact time frame that his speakers were manufactured. I personally think a description I heard here best defines tubes coloration in that it sounds like something we wish it was, but that in esssence is not reality, or true I might add, to the orriginal source material.

Roger

[twistedcrankcammer]

Sorry if I missed it, but is there any reason why you are not considering separates? In your situation I would be looking for an Adcom GFA-555II 60w/ch Power Amp($90-120 on Ebay) and an Adcom GTP-500 (or 500II) Preamp/Tuner ($75-120 on Ebay). If you don't need the tuner and want a better phono section, you could look for an Adcom GFP-555 Preamp ($125-$160 on Ebay). I use an Adcom GFA-555II 200w/ch power amp to drive my Forte IIs, which is complete overkill in my home office, but sonically very pleasing. Many Adcom fans feel that the Adcom GFA-535II, while less powerful, was actually sonically superior to the GFA-555II.

On a side note, the system that first turned me on to Klipsch was a pair of LaScalas being driven by an Adcom GFA-535II, which was feed from the variable outputs of an Adcom GCD-575 CD Player. A very simple yet very musical system, to say the least.

Rob

Rob,

While it is true that Adcom makes good gear for the buck, I have owned alot of adcom personally as well as presently, and that Nakamichi Receiver is cleaner than any adcom I have heard or owned including GFA-565 mono blocks. I presently own and run my center channel with a GFA-565 mano block, and I have a GFA-7000 in the living room waiting to be shipped to a buyer as it came down on Ebay on Sunday. I plan on picking up a GFA-5802 to listen to against my Nakamichi PA-7, as the Adcom GFA-5802 was also a Nelson Pass design, and therefore I believe it worth checking out first hand, but the Adcom seperates listed, including others not, are not sonically as good as that receiver. I would not have kept that Nakamichi TA-4A as long as I did, if it were not so, nor made sure that I took a finacial loss in selling it, to make sure it went to a family member who would use it. I have seen alot of personal gear come and go, while that Nakamichi stayed.

Roger

[twistedcrankcammer]

I've compared the sound of my Yamaha HTR-6090 I bought for a grand in 2006 to a pioneer sx 1500 (NEW IN 1973 ABOUT)that was given to me by my Bro in law. I really liked the Pioneer. My yammie is rated at 120 or 130 watts per channel and the Pioneer is rated at 32 watts per channel. I also have Fortes.

bigdaddy,

My first real quality piece of gear was a brand new SX-3800 that I paid for with my first job in highschool.......washing down a slaughterhouse in the evenings, started when I was 15.

Roger

[theclipper]

Wow, thanks for all the replies guys! This is alot to take in at once so I'm trying to do my research. One question I had is if those old Pioneer SX models sound very good? I love the look of them and other from that era. But I want to focus on sound and not looks.

[Cal Blacksmith]

Roger, I think that tube gear is not really much more trouble prone than SS gear. If a unit is solid, it is solid. I have seen tube gear in daily use go more than 20 years without a problem, that is really in use EVERY DAY. Is it operating at it's sonic peak? Probably not but then again a 20 year old SS unit would not be either.

As to coloration, as I said, every amp is guilty of doing it, the real issue is what sound do you prefer. I know from my personal history with my gear, Klipsch heritage speakers and tube amps are a match made in heaven. The issue is the clarity of the first watt. Tube gear is much better than SS at this and face it, when you have a speaker that is 98db effecent, you are really not using more than a few watts for the vast majority of your listening unless you are listening to ear bleed levels. My PP 6550 tube amp is only 40 wpc and it never even begins to crack a sweat driving my Cornwalls. My normal listening level is about 95 to 105 db and there is plenty of power to control the bass and keep it tight yet the detail is there for everything that is at a normal listening level.

I have a HK (440 I think) that I would let go cheep. I also picked up a Marantz that needs a new volume pot as when it is turned down fully, there is still some content that gets through. Either of these units I would let go for a reasonable price but I stand by my opinion that a solid unit is no more problem than the other SS or tube.

[twistedcrankcammer]

Wow, thanks for all the replies guys! This is alot to take in at once so I'm trying to do my research. One question I had is if those old Pioneer SX models sound very good? I love the look of them and other from that era. But I want to focus on sound and not looks.

theclipper,

My SX-3800 was a tank, and I had a good quality set of cans (headphones). I owned a Micro Seiki DD-35 and it sounded good to me, but I was listening through Radio Shack Mach 1 Speakers at the time. I could not yet afford LaScalas, so I bought good headphones for quality listening. I bought all my gear new back then. Mach 1 Speaker sound cannot be compared to Forte's, just not in the same ballpark!! The specks on the Pioneer were impressive, but as previously stated, I don't think specks paint an accurate picture. I sold my Pioneer and Mach 1s to a friend, when I stepped up to the Nakamichi, so I can't truely say how it would perform on a truely good speaker. I would assume similar to adcom seperates in performance, but can only base that on newer Pioneer recievers that I have heard on Klipsch. Many here like the newer Pioneer Elite on Klipsch.

Roger

[twistedcrankcammer]

Roger, I think that tube gear is not really much more trouble prone than SS gear. If a unit is solid, it is solid. I have seen tube gear in daily use go more than 20 years without a problem, that is really in use EVERY DAY. Is it operating at it's sonic peak? Probably not but then again a 20 year old SS unit would not be either.

As to coloration, as I said, every amp is guilty of doing it, the real issue is what sound do you prefer. I know from my personal history with my gear, Klipsch heritage speakers and tube amps are a match made in heaven. The issue is the clarity of the first watt. Tube gear is much better than SS at this and face it, when you have a speaker that is 98db effecent, you are really not using more than a few watts for the vast majority of your listening unless you are listening to ear bleed levels. My PP 6550 tube amp is only 40 wpc and it never even begins to crack a sweat driving my Cornwalls. My normal listening level is about 95 to 105 db and there is plenty of power to control the bass and keep it tight yet the detail is there for everything that is at a normal listening level.

I have a HK (440 I think) that I would let go cheep. I also picked up a Marantz that needs a new volume pot as when it is turned down fully, there is still some content that gets through. Either of these units I would let go for a reasonable price but I stand by my opinion that a solid unit is no more problem than the other SS or tube.

I am going to ramble hear a little bit.

My only early experience with tube gear was my dads heath kit system and my gradfathers, although I don't know what brand his was, it was an all in one black and white TV, with tunner, turntable, and stereo speakers arround 72 inches wide and solid black walnut with walnut sliding slotted doors in front that slid in front of the TV screen to show the speaker grill cloth when not viewing television.

I have never heard a 2 way speaker system that inpressed me until recently. My wifes brother has Altec Lansing Studio Monitor Model 19s as well as Corner Horns, I also know a guy who has Altec Lansing VOTs. I have never been impressed with the way those speakers sound. A couple of years ago, when I picked up a used RC-7 at the sellers house, the guy had a completely restored pair of VOTs that he was powering with tubes, and I can honestly say, they were completely transformed into something completely different, and extremely easy to listen too, however, I would not considder them extremely accurate.

It was my afore mentioned biass of 2 way speakers that led me to be concerned in regaurds to the new Jubilee. It was also, my experience with those restored VOTs and tubes, and a very pleasant call I received from Kevin Harmons last night that very much has my intrest peaked as to if the K-260 horn and 2 into one tweeter is the way to go, or finishing an all TSCM surround theater with the 402 horn might be the way to go.

I need to send Kavin Harmon some TSCM pictures I have, but I am a computer idiot, and cant figgure how to scan pictures in, then transfer to "my pictures", to email attach them to amail to Kevin.

Kevin, I hope you read this as I am not leaving you hang, just my ineptness on the computer.

Roger

[rroobbcc]

I plan on picking up a GFA-5802 to listen to against my Nakamichi PA-7, as the Adcom GFA-5802 was also a Nelson Pass design, and therefore I believe it worth checking out first hand

I can only take your word regarding the Nakamichi receiver, as I have not heard it. I do own a GFA-5802 which I use to power my Infinity RS 9 Kappas (in fact I also own a 555, a 555II, and two 545IIs), and would recommend that you make sure the amp has 30-45 minutes to warm up before doing any serious listening. The 5802 was the first component I owned which really convinced me that some equipment does in fact improve when warm. When warm the 5802 is definitely smoother and more refined that the 555II, which itself is smoother that the original 555. The 555 has better bass "slam", but is other wise the least refined of these three.

NOTE: Above comparisons were made while powering my 9 Kappas. The only amp I have had connected to the Forte IIs is the GFA-555II, which I have been very happy with.

The comparison to the Nakamichi PA-7 should be an interesting one. The PA-7 is another component that I would be proud to own. Do you have the original or the mk.II?

[twistedcrankcammer]

I plan on picking up a GFA-5802 to listen to against my Nakamichi PA-7, as the Adcom GFA-5802 was also a Nelson Pass design, and therefore I believe it worth checking out first hand

I can only take your word regarding the Nakamichi receiver, as I have not heard it. I do own a GFA-5802 which I use to power my Infinity RS 9 Kappas (in fact I also own a 555, a 555II, and two 545IIs), and would recommend that you make sure the amp has 30-45 minutes to warm up before doing any serious listening. The 5802 was the first component I owned which really convinced me that some equipment does in fact improve when warm. When warm the 5802 is definitely smoother and more refined that the 555II, which itself is smoother that the original 555. The 555 has better bass "slam", but is other wise the least refined of these three.

NOTE: Above comparisons were made while powering my 9 Kappas. The only amp I have had connected to the Forte IIs is the GFA-555II, which I have been very happy with.

The comparison to the Nakamichi PA-7 should be an interesting one. The PA-7 is another component that I would be proud to own. Do you have the original or the mk.II?

Rob,

PA-7s with the GFA-565 on my center LeScala, to bad the PA-5 is a non bridgable design.

Roger

[Audio Flynn]

I would recomend that you lood at a good solid tube amp such as this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-FISHER-X-100-2-STEREO-TUBE-AMPLIFIER-X100-AMP_W0QQitemZ230278012176QQihZ013QQcategoryZ119019QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hi Wayne---

Good to see ya hanging around some! Hope you're doing well. Yes, that's a nice amp, and no question would sound far more musical than any of the SS receivers being suggested, but I sense it's "too early in the journey" for this fellow to get wrapped around tubes. I've seen it (premature tubophilia) happen here a few times. I think he's first got to get past the "I need 2,000 watts and 6 subwoofers phase" and then if still interested in the music, a fine instrument like that Fisher might be appreciated.

LMAO

Thank goodness it only took me 2 subwoofers and a 5 x 125 watt power amp to figure it out.

[Islander]

I think he's first got to get past the "I need 2,000 watts and 6 subwoofers phase" and then if still interested in the music, a fine instrument like that Fisher might be appreciated.

Hey, I still like 2,000 watts and a sub (just one)... []

Sounds great playing jazz from KPLU Seattle right now.

[twistedcrankcammer]

I would recomend that you lood at a good solid tube amp such as this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-FISHER-X-100-2-STEREO-TUBE-AMPLIFIER-X100-AMP_W0QQitemZ230278012176QQihZ013QQcategoryZ119019QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hi Wayne---

Good to see ya hanging around some! Hope you're doing well. Yes, that's a nice amp, and no question would sound far more musical than any of the SS receivers being suggested, but I sense it's "too early in the journey" for this fellow to get wrapped around tubes. I've seen it (premature tubophilia) happen here a few times. I think he's first got to get past the "I need 2,000 watts and 6 subwoofers phase" and then if still interested in the music, a fine instrument like that Fisher might be appreciated.

LMAO

Thank goodness it only took me 2 subwoofers and a 5 x 125 watt power amp to figure it out.

Hey mdeneen,

I guess I am sicker than most, because my two subs are 1250 watt RMS each and 3000 peak watt capable each, so I must have broke through the 2000 watt ceiling somehow, but I digress. Did not Paul Wilbur Klipsch himself say something about audiophiles?? Maybe you could then explain to me why PWK himself went to SS amps in his own settup, when quite obviously he could own any gear he wanted. I would also reference you to Bob Crites wanting to ask PWK why so many tout the tube when Paul went SS himself. I would then ask is not your statement made in such a way as that non tube aficionodos must be lacking in some knowledge, and that you must hold some secret they did not possess?? So you must know more about it than Paul or Bob huh??

Roger

[twistedcrankcammer]

Yes, but will the quad stacker chase away those dreadful munchies????

Roger

[oldtimer]

Now we're comparing amps to hamburgers?

[theclipper]

I would recomend that you lood at a good solid tube amp such as this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-FISHER-X-100-2-STEREO-TUBE-AMPLIFIER-X100-AMP_W0QQitemZ230278012176QQihZ013QQcategoryZ119019QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hi Wayne---

Good to see ya hanging around some! Hope you're doing well. Yes, that's a nice amp, and no question would sound far more musical than any of the SS receivers being suggested, but I sense it's "too early in the journey" for this fellow to get wrapped around tubes. I've seen it (premature tubophilia) happen here a few times. I think he's first got to get past the "I need 2,000 watts and 6 subwoofers phase" and then if still interested in the music, a fine instrument like that Fisher might be appreciated.

I am defintely not worried about have super overpowering bass, I don't have any need or want for a subwoofer. Granted I have no experience with tubes but if those offer great sound at a reasonable price I am definitely interested. I just want something that is going to make my Forte's sound great and clear and natural.

[twistedcrankcammer]

Now we're comparing amps to hamburgers?

Oldtimer,

Side step and evade the issue at hand, never admit that you may be wrong. He would make a 5 star politician!! "I smoked but I never inhaled!!", "I did not have sex with that woman!!"

Roger

[oldtimer]

Clipper, here's my basic take on your decision. Keep in mind I have owned Forte II's since new from 1989 and have since bought two more pairs. Any quality amp at a price you are comfortable with will be just fine. The topology doesn't matter. These speakers are very forgiving for horns regarding amplification. They will sound really good no matter what you throw at them, as long as it's not something truly terrible. I don't use a sub either. There is plenty of bass for music and enough for movies too. Find something in good shape, hook them up, and sit back and enjoy!

[Cal Blacksmith]

Mark:

[] LOL! Yep, I do remember that phase but I very quickly learned very early that power is not mandatory to great sound so I was spared the expense of most of that phase. I might just have to bid on that Fisher myself, I have no need for it at the moment but it sure looks great and I do love the Fisher sound!!

[Cal Blacksmith]

I would recomend that you lood at a good solid tube amp such as this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-FISHER-X-100-2-STEREO-TUBE-AMPLIFIER-X100-AMP_W0QQitemZ230278012176QQihZ013QQcategoryZ119019QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hi Wayne---

Good to see ya hanging around some! Hope you're doing well. Yes, that's a nice amp, and no question would sound far more musical than any of the SS receivers being suggested, but I sense it's "too early in the journey" for this fellow to get wrapped around tubes. I've seen it (premature tubophilia) happen here a few times. I think he's first got to get past the "I need 2,000 watts and 6 subwoofers phase" and then if still interested in the music, a fine instrument like that Fisher might be appreciated.

I am defintely not worried about have super overpowering bass, I don't have any need or want for a subwoofer. Granted I have no experience with tubes but if those offer great sound at a reasonable price I am definitely interested. I just want something that is going to make my Forte's sound great and clear and natural.

Clipper, yes that amp would make the Fort'es sing. That is an intigrated amp that is, it has a pre-amp and power amp only, no tuner with (I am trying hard to remember here) 4 inputs. There should be one each for Tape, Phono, Tuner and Aux. The issue of relability was raised and that could be an issue with ANY older amp. Caps dry out, contacts get dirty, pots get noisy but you pay your money and take your chances. I do indeed love the Fisher sound and I love the sound stage that I got with my Fort'es and my Fisher 400 receiver.

If at all possible, listen to several amps or receivers (seperates are more the norm over receivers here on the board) on your Forte's or other heratage speakers if it is possible. I don't know where you live but there might be someone from the board that has some gear for you to listen to within a reasonable driving distance.

It is hard to help someone with what they should buy as everyone that gets into this hobby have slightly different goals in mind. YOU really need to hear lots of different setups to give yourself a better understanding of just what it is that you want to get out of this hobby.

I do indeed have a HK 430 receiver that I will sell you for what I have into it. It works well but the antanena is loose on the back of the unit. Not an audio defect to be sure. The face plate is fair with some wear but all the lettering is clear and readable though might be a little worn in places. I bought it here on the board a few years ago just to give it a listen and I think I have $75 in it. Add the cost of shipping and it is yours.