Klipsch RF-83's and Harman/Kardon AVR-146

[Bryan1342]

Hello,

I have been researching the Klipsch RF-83's for a long time, and I finally decided that I will be purchasing a pair very soon. (Within the next week or so)

But before I do so, I would like to know whether the H/K AVR-146 (The amp I currently have) would would have enough power to be able to properly drive them, or if it would be wise for me to purchase another amp. (Say, the H/K AVR-354 that has 75 watts/channel)

I will be using the speakers mainly for music, (though I will use them for movies and TV as well);

Incase you don't know, the Harman/Kardon AVR-146 has I believe 40 watts per channel of power in an 8 ohm load.

If I can get any help, it would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

[Bill H.]

Welcome to the sound................for now that receiver should be just fine. As you continue to listen, you'll want to upgrade to pre/amps for a cleaner sound.

Relax and enjoy. Post Pics when you get set up................Enjoy the tunes.

[wsu99999]

I don't own RF-83s so my opinion may not be too valid but I have auditioned them. I auditioned them against a pair of Cornwalls, Heresy's, LaScalas, and Klipschorns. All 5 set's of speakers were hooked up to a low level Integra amp (which I would assume would be better or the same as the low level HK). To me, I was seriously dissapointed with the RF-83's performance. I'm sure they sound good with higher amplification, but to me they didn't sound good at all. They were just flat and unimpressive next to the heritage line.

Granted, the Heritage line are built for low power which I assume is the difference. If you must go the RF-83 route, I would recomend seperates OR get the AVR-146(if it has preouts) and a 200 WPC amplifier off Ebay for a few hundred. That way you would have the extra power and it wouldn't break the bank too much as buying a high powered receiver would. I think that is your best bet (or get some LaScalas)

[RockOn4Klipsch]

TheHK avr 146 will be suitable for now, HK is usually very modest in the wattage rating department which is a good and bad thing, none the less you'll be fine with the 146.

If you take a look at actual max power consumption versus what each channel is driven at will give you a little better idea. For example the avr 146 is rated at 30 watts x 5 ch which make for a total of 150 watts. The standby wattages usage is 65 watts so you figure a little more for when the lights are on and what not we'll call it an even 100 watts to run the units DACs and processors. The total power consumption of the AVR 146 is 540 watts max (driven with 5 channels). So take the 540 watts minus the 100 watts to wrong the thing give you a total of 440 watts minus the 30 watts x 5 ch ( 440 - 150 = 290 watts).So on the HK spec sheet there's roughly 290 watts that are unaccounted for. so take the 290 divided by the 5 channels give you about 58 watts more a channel then is actually specd by HK. So while your 2 channel listening is specd at 40 watts x 2 ch is more realistically probably 80 or more.

I'm sure someone will chime in andgive some more input and this is all a rough estimate but to show you there is still unaccounted current in the end that is actually being used. Don't be scared of the HK wattage ratings you get good clean power and they sound great with klipsch IMO.

[artto]

You're only going to get a little more than another 3 decibels out of the 75w/ch. Hardly seems worth it unless there are new/additional features that you want.

Often a speaker upgrade (more efficient) is the easiest route to more power output but you've already done that for the most part.

BTW I'm using basically the same reciever, an HK AVR130 (45w/ch) with Chorus L+R and RC7 C+LR+RR. Works fine for me. But then I'm also not as critical of the sound for HT as I am for music.

[Jay481985]

The RF-83 do not need wattage, they need amps. I had an HK 3480 which had same 120 watts claim as my current denon 3805. The HK had the current to give the 83 bass. The denon I could not replicate the same bass. How could I tell: First spl meter though the difference was 5 db, the same song on my HK you could feel the bass vibrate your skin, denon no matter how loud no. Currently I have a pro crown xti 1000 amp hooked to the denon and klipsch and I have more power than i need.

[mowntnbkr]

Jay, funny you mention this. I have RF 83's and loved them with my HK 345. I recently upgraded to a Denon 3808ci to go HDMI and all that good HT stuff. I must admit I am very disappointed. As you stated the bass is just nonexistent like it is with the HK, plus the HK has a warmer sound to it. Thankfully I have my VRD's for music in another room. I tried playing music with the denon and it lasted only a few minutes, fatiguing almost immediately. If some are new to horns and have amplification similar to the denon I could see why they don't like horns Needless to say that I will probably sell my denon and try to find something closer to the HK.

[RockOn4Klipsch]

Just wanted to agree with Jay and mntnbkr, the HK i had was rated at like 80 watts or something dont quite recall and the onkyo 805 i have now doesn't compare in sound qualit. The HK brought my RF 5s to life in all aspects, the onkyo has more features and sounds fine for HT but no comparison with music. I'm in the process of searching for a good power amp for music.

[falcon20x]

Welcome to the forum.

Jay is right, his advise is not a guess but a mix of experience and knowledge unlike some.

I think most of us will agree on the HK having a warmer sound. A lot of people are using the receiver as a preamp with a separate amplifier

The RF 83 are efficient speakers and they will get going with just about everything you will through at them but a good amp will allow you to reach there full potential without over working the receiver.

The AVR 146 will do to start off, just make sure it has a 5.1 outpout so you can add a separate amp later ( you will need it later [] ).

You don't know what you are missing until you heard what they can do.

I have had mine hooked up to yamaha, pionner elite, HK and a top of line marantz receiver. Besides the marantz, which was alot more expensive , none of them could get close to the HK.

Adding a separate amp to all of them made a huge difference

[Youthman]

Hi Bryan. I thought I would stop by and say hi. Welcome to the forums. I used to have a HK AVR55 (65 watt/ch in stereo). For music, it sounded amazing. The clarity and separation of the instruments brought a HUGE smile to my face everytime I listened. I upgraded to my current Onkyo because it had DTS and 7.1 but for music, the Onkyo doesn't sound as well to my taste. Others may disagree. It is a great receiver for HT, but to me, music it lacks. The only problem I had with the HK running my RF-83's is that it ran out of gas at high volumes. The music would begin to break up a bit and sound harsh when I pushed the amp. The Onkyo has NO problems with clarity at high volumes. Plenty of headroom there. I also had an opportunity to hook up a QSC 265 watt/ch amp and what a difference! Added clarity, lots of bass. Bass was even present at low volume which was nice. Unfortunately, your HK does not have preouts. It will drive the RF-83's fine at descent volume, just if you crank it, it will likely break up. You can always upgrade your receiver later in the future. I think you will love the sound of the HK and RF-83 combo.

[Bryan1342]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, and experience!

You've all been very helpful; I'm planning on getting the RF-83's in mid November, and once I get them, I'll be sure to let you know my thoughts on them.

Thank you!

[Rockets]

I have the HK AVR-146 in my master bedroom driving some older Altec 301's rated (optimistically) at 94db, but in reality are probably closer to 88db. I have no complaints at all. It will play loud enough that you won't want to stay in the same room for very long. I would not worry. The RF-83 is rated at 100db which means they'll be between 1 1/2 to 2 times louder that what I'm hearing. Yeah, I know...power doubles every 3db, but it's takes a 10db delta before the human ear can detect a doubling of sound.

In my famiily room I'm running a HK 645 w/ three Lascala's that have never seen full volume...maybe if I was outside and shot the remote through the window.... I already have nails backing out of the drywall as it is. HK power ratings are way to low...and you have to just love the clean sound quality.

[Youthman]

HK power ratings are way to low...and you have to just love the clean sound quality.

No doubt. I loved the sound of my HK AVR55 for 2ch. Just beautimous!