SET advise for KHorns... Welborne DRD-45?

[HPower]

Hey guys,

I have started looking for an affordable 300B SET amplification for my Klipschorns and am considering the Welborne Labs amps.
I would prefer to go the used route but the DRD 300B doesn't seem to come up very often here... although, I just saw a DRD45 newly listed.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1230669380&/Welborne-Labs-drd-45-amps-Tube

I was using a Jolida JD-300B integrated which I liked but it was a bit noisy and I also wanted to go to separates.
I sold the JD-300B and just picked up a JM Peach II, which I am using with a First Watt F3 clone for the time being.
The F3 is nice, with detail, power, dynamics, and DEAD quite, but just lacks that bit of tube
magic that the 300B integrated had.

My current system:

CDP: Jolida, JD-100A... Underwood (Parts Connextion), mini mod.
Preamp: Juicy Music Peach II
Amplifier: First Watt F3... clone, built by Tim Rawson.
Speakers: 1975 Klipschorns... crossovers were recently re-capped by previous owner.

Room: 15' wide x 24' long x 7.5' high with the rear wall open to another room approx. 12' W x 18'
L.
The Khorns are on the short wall in good corners, 15' apart, with the main listening sofa approx.
14 ' from each speaker.

Music: I listen to most types of music with the exception of classical and rap/dance music.
Out on the coffee table right now... John Prine, Lucinda Williams, Bob Marley, Holly Cole, Grand Funk, Led Zep, Neko Case,
Emmylou, Keb Mo, Dave Alvin, Roy Hargrove, Eagles, Iris Demment, Grant Green, Patty Griffin, Eva Cassidy, Nirvana, The Cult...

Given my above info, how might the DRD 45 work for me?

Other than the obvious output power, how does the 45 compare to the 300B?

How does the pricing look on the DRD 45 in the AGon ad?

Are there any questions that I should be asking the AGon seller?

What might be some other good SET options in the $2000 + or -, 2nd hand is fine if it makes things more affordable?

I am guessing the Peach will work nicely with any of the SET designs.

Thanks

[joessportster]

hello althought the 45 will drive your speakers it will be very bass shy, and if you try to achieve any loud levels you will start distorting things, you really want at least 8 to 10 watts per channel on the k-horns

Joe

[Cut-Throat]

You won't go wrong buying that DRD45. I have tried many, many amplifiers on my Khorns and have settled on the Welborne 45 amp. Welborne no longer makes the amps and they are snatched up pretty quick. I also own 2A3 Moondogs. Have owned 300B, but he 45 is King IMHO. Female vocals on Jazz music will put the musician 'In your room' and you will know why SET audiophiles gravitate towards the 45 amp. I also have a few Push Pull amps and Solid State amps, but prefer the SET amp amps by a wide margin over the others. And the 45 is my favorite SET amp.

[HPower]

hello althought the 45 will drive your speakers it will be very bass shy, and if you try to achieve any loud levels you will start distorting things, you really want at least 8 to 10 watts per channel on the k-horns

Joe

Joe,

Your point is a bit of a concern for me as I do like a fairly wide range of music.

For those occations when we like to "get the Led out", I would be worried the 45 might not be up to the task.

I do know the Jolida 300B was able to cut it for that type of listening.

[HPower]

Hey Cut-Throat,

I was hoping that you would chime in.

Conversely to Joe's point, a lot of the music that I find myself listening to the most intimately is were

I really miss the sound of the Jolida 300B the most (vs. the First Watt)

Usually more stripped down stuff like: Emmylou, Keb Mo, Holly Cole, Nancy Griffith, Dave Alvin, Cowboy Junkies Union Station, Jackson Browne, etc.

I am guessing this is were the 45 might realy shine?

PM sent.

[Cut-Throat]

Hey Cut-Throat,

I was hoping that you would chime in.

Conversely to Joe's point, a lot of the music that I find myself listening to the most intimately is were

I really miss the sound of the Jolida 300B the most (vs. the First Watt)

Usually more stripped down stuff like: Emmylou, Keb Mo, Holly Cole, Nancy Griffith, Dave Alvin, Cowboy Junkies Union Station, Jackson Browne, etc.

I am guessing this is were the 45 might realy shine?

PM sent.

I never got a PM, so I'll respond here. The 45 for me really shines on most all music. I listen to a lot of the same stuff you do. A lot of people will comment on 45 amps because they have 'Read the Specs' and not ever listened to one. Don't worry about the specs, just find one to listen to and make up your own mind.

[HPower]

Sorry Cut-Throat,

I got called away from the computer before I could it the send button... you should have one now.

[dkalsi]

I haven't heard any of Welborne's other amps but I do own the Welborn DRD 300B amps - LOVE'EM!

I bought those based on Joe's recommendation. As Joe pointed out, most of these low powered SET amps tend to be bass shy (depends on who you ask).

I am sure the 45 and 2A3 that Cut-Throat owns are better than my Welborn DRD 300B. However, if they are even less bass shy than

my 300B, they will not be acceptable for my application. Going from the mighty VRDs to the 300B, I lost ton of bass and I can not afford to lose more.

That being said, I personally find the 300B's mid and highs to die for.

[seti]

I miss my Canary Audio 300B SET. 300B tubes are awesome. I love SET but I would go for the higher watt variety. You can't go wrong with George Wright.

[Blvdre]

Haven't tried any of the Wright 300B offerings, but his 2A3 amps are anything but bass shy. I imagine the 300B's do as well down low.

[HPower]

Here is the official reply I got from Welborne when I asked about buying an amp or kit:

Hi,

Thanks for your e-mail.

We currently are in the process of revamping our amplifier
offerings so no amps are available at this time.

For DRD amps we suggest you contact Electra-Print Audio.

Regards,

-D

Welborne Labs

[seti]

Here is the official reply I got from Welborne when I asked about buying an amp or kit:

Hi,

Thanks for your e-mail.

We currently are in the process of revamping our amplifier
offerings so no amps are available at this time.

For DRD amps we suggest you contact Electra-Print Audio.

Regards,

-D

Welborne Labs

DO NOT BUY FROM WELBORNE LABS!!!!!!!! DANGER DANGER DANGER

Only buy used from an individual who has the amps in possession. The list of people who have been screwed by Welborne Labs grows all the time. Including members of this forum. Do a search on Audio Asylum, Klipsch forum, and Audio Karma! You will see some suprising response. Once he has your money you will be lucky to get anything. I don't think they are revamping but rather trying to find out what they owe and to whom. I pray he does right by everyone he has wronged.

There is a thread somewhere on the forum.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=115112

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-115516.html

[HPower]

Hey seti,

I was curious to see what kind of, if any, response I would get from Welborne.

After about 2 googles, I realized that the only safe way to buy a Welborne amp is via the used market.

At George Wright's page he has what looks like an outstanding deal on a dealer return demo pair of

AU-15s at $2250 (MSRP = $3950)... Blvdre, have you heard these guys?

[seti]

Hey seti,

I was curious to see what kind of, if any, response I would get from Welborne.

After about 2 googles, I realized that the only safe way to buy a Welborne amp is via the used market.

At George Wright's page he has what looks like an outstanding deal on a dealer return demo pair of

AU-15s at $2250 (MSRP = $3950)... Blvdre, have you heard these guys?

I can not believe you got a response. There were legal actions being taken by a group of individuals.

I have owned George's preamps and they are great bang for the buck. I knew I would regret selling the WLA12A it was great. If I am in the market for another preamp it would be at the top of my list. Many forum members here have owned George Wright gear and been very pleased. Just do a search here on George Wright. The AU-15s look like a killer deal and they are from his signature line which is another plus. Push Pull 2A3 amps were among PWKs favorite amps early in his career. George Wright is a stand up guy. You still need a preamp. If you go this route keep us informed.

• Built in the United States the old-fashioned way, with point-to-point hand wiring
  
• Zero-feedback topology for extremely fast transient response
  
• Point-to-point hand wiring
  
• Interstage transformer used for phase-inversion and driver
  circuit to ensure effortless control of output tube grids; this
  provides exceptionally clean, low-distortion operation
• Sowter interstage and output transformers
  
• Minimal voltage gain used to reduced unwanted noise pickup
  
• Smoothing choke in plate supply reduces hum
  
• Ceramic tube sockets for long life and low noise
  
• Novel fixed bias circuit does not require adjustment and promotes extended tube life
  
• Vacuum tube rectification eliminates the need for power line conditioners
  
• LC Pi- filtered power supply for lowest hum and noise

Specifications

• Frequency Response: 18 to 20,000 Hz ±1 dB at rated output, 15 to 26000 Hz ±2dB @ 1 watt
  
• Distortion: less than 1% odd harmonic at rated output; less than 0.5 % even harmonic at rated output
  
• Input Impedance: 100 kilohm
  
• Input Level: 1Vrms input equals 15 watts output
  
• Output Impedance: 4,8, or 16 ohm, customer selectable
  
• Power output: 15 watts class A, 33 watts peak power Power requirements: 117 volts ac, 50 to 60 Hz; export model available
  
• Tube complement: two 2A3s, one 6AH4, one 6J5, one 5U4

[Cut-Throat]

At George Wright's page he has what looks like an outstanding deal on a dealer return demo pair of

AU-15s at $2250 (MSRP = $3950)... Blvdre, have you heard these guys?

Tom,

These are not SET amps, they are PUSH-PULL amps. I own a couple Push-Pull amps and they do NOT have the SET 'right stuff'

So, if you are interested in a SET amp, look elsewhere.

[HPower]

seti,

Last week I picked up a JM Peach II from AGon, see my 1st post at the top for all the particulars.

As good a deal that the AU-15s are, it would be a real stretch on my bank account right now.

And as cut-throat mentioned, not a SET design, which is the way I thought I wanted to go.

Although it would cover any worries I might have about a single ended 2A3 or 45 not having enough jam on the toast.

I spoke to Jack at Electra-Print Audio about what it might cost to build a DRD 300B or DRD 45 and he felt that I would

be much better off going with his Single Ended A2 6A3/300B design... 15-21 wpc.

Here is a link to the scematic:

http://www.electra-print.com/singleended_a2.php

[seti]

seti,

Last week I picked up a JM Peach II from AGon, see my 1st post at the top for all the particulars.

As good a deal that the AU-15s are, it would be a real stretch on my bank account right now.

And as cut-throat mentioned, not a SET design, which is the way I thought I wanted to go.

Although it would cover any worries I might have about a single ended 2A3 or 45 not having enough jam on the toast.

I spoke to Jack at Electra-Print Audio about what it might cost to build a DRD 300B or DRD 45 and he felt that I would

be much better off going with his Single Ended A2 6A3/300B design... 15-21 wpc.

Here is a link to the scematic:

http://www.electra-print.com/singleended_a2.php

Congrats on the JM!

Yeah don't stretch yourself in this economy . As good as I think the AU-15s would be it is not worth stretching yourself over.

I hear ya on the SET. 300B SET is my fave so far but PP 2A3 may be my next forray into tubedom. I was just looking on Audiogon and the SET market is slim right now.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1230669380&/Welborne-Labs-drd-45-amps

If you are going to DIY you have so many options to choose from. Have you considered bottlehead.com ?

[HPower]

That AGon DRD 45 is the one that cut-throat strongly suggests that I jump all over.

But everybody knows white men can't jump.

The SETs are slim pick'n right now, maybe that's why it seems a little over priced.

I did contact the seller and he didn't say, but he sounds like he is in the business of picking gear up

and reselling it... in my very best Jerry Seinfeld voice, "Not that there is anything wrong with that"

[Blvdre]

Hey seti,

I was curious to see what kind of, if any, response I would get from Welborne.

After about 2 googles, I realized that the only safe way to buy a Welborne amp is via the used market.

At George Wright's page he has what looks like an outstanding deal on a dealer return demo pair of

AU-15s at $2250 (MSRP = $3950)... Blvdre, have you heard these guys?

I haven't heard these, but it sounds like you want to stick with SET (I'm in that camp as well). Even though you're hesitant about 2a3, the Wright 3.5's have a good bit of headroom, george claims 8 watts of musical power, and there is a pair of 2a3's on Audiogon right now, pretty reasonable price.

[seti]

Hey seti,

I was curious to see what kind of, if any, response I would get from Welborne.

After about 2 googles, I realized that the only safe way to buy a Welborne amp is via the used market.

At George Wright's page he has what looks like an outstanding deal on a dealer return demo pair of

AU-15s at $2250 (MSRP = $3950)... Blvdre, have you heard these guys?

I haven't heard these, but it sounds like you want to stick with SET (I'm in that camp as well). Even though you're hesitant about 2a3, the Wright 3.5's have a good bit of headroom, george claims 8 watts of musical power, and there is a pair of 2a3's on Audiogon right now, pretty reasonable price.

Forum member DaddyDee had a pair of the Wright 3.5's so he would be a good one to ask. You can't beat that price. WOW..... If I weren't saving my money for unreasonably sized speakers I'd have to consider that one.