cjgeraci

Interesting, Rudy. I am also a big fan of Al's 1 inch horns. In fact, I like them so much that I decided to keep mine until I found something leaps and bounds better. Picking up these inexpensive horns (100 bucks per) was an easy way for me to play around with 2 inch drivers and still keep my Trachorns for the time being (which are up front with 902s). Carl.

Glad to hear that your friend has found his heaven. After all, this hobby is subjective and there are always different paths to get where you want to be. Are the speakers the first generation Utopias or the second generation Utopia Bes (for Beryllium tweeters)? If the second generation, the Bes are going for $35k+. I can think of some interesting cars that I could tool around once I get in that price range or higher............. Carl.

I second Big D's impressions of the Goldwood horn. I currently use the Goldwood horns with my rear pseudo-Belles with Radian 850 drivers, and was surprised at just how smooth they were without any EQ (at least with these 850s - my only point of reference on this horn). I was using them as three-way, but have since been using them as two-way (with the 850s). The horns do sound like they could benefit from a little EQ on the top end when you go two-way, and that is on my "to-do" list when I get caught up with the long honey-do list. That being said, they sound surprisingly good stock in two-way with the 850s, and I am not sweating it for the minute - since they are with my rears. I may still graduate up to Al or Greg's beautiful Tractrix style horns when the economy improves, but the Goldwoods are a good horn for the money. And well worth it just to get your feet wet in two-inch. Carl.

Could you elaborate Dean, The Forte's have a horn midrange and tweeter. The comparison was done with the Fortes's first followed by the RF-7's, listening to the RF-7's separately tend to grow on you. Scott, my next objective is to work on my pre-amp. I would like to remove the volume control along with the bass & treble controls since I am using them on the Pioneer. I'll wait for you to pour sand in your walls first to see if I wan't to do the same. What Dean was likely referring to was the fact that the RF-7s do not cross over to the horn until you hit 2200 hz. Therefore, a good portion of what is traditionally known as the "midrange" is covered by the shiny cones. Carl.

The template of the one inch horn has a narrow long throat, and as a result, it appears as though this is not a fair fight as being proposed - at least as the one inch horn is concerned. I agree with Dean. My one-inch Trachorns from Al are much shorter, and the throat size is much less constricted (as comparison to proposed). Al's horns are smooth as silk and effortless at all volumes. In comparison, I have tried the K400 with different drivers: to painful results due to the narrow throat. Carl.

I concur. I wonder if the 801s have a little shrine in front of them. Carl.

Dave, what a great event!! It was nice to catch up with those I have not seen since last year's gathering, and there was plenty of great food and drink to boot. Well, onto to the event. Various people rotated in and out for the first three rounds and then the shootout of champions. I counted the average listening audience to be approximately 15 people at a time. In the first round, the majority of the crowd voiced their preference for the Trends 10.1 tripath amp (with an upgraded stand alone PSU) over the pair of SET amps. After all, the little Trends (the size of a matchbox) won StereoMojo's 2007 blind digital amp shootout among 14 different amplifiers, and with an upgraded power supply, the little amp is no slouch. To my ears, the little Trends was almost as smooth as the SET on the top end (and amongst the smoothest solid state I have heard), and the Trends was superior in detail and bass definition. The second round was a route. To my ears, the Monarchy class A solid state sounded thin and edgy. On the other hand, the rebuilt Marantz 8B was smooth as silk, detailed in spades, and forceful at the same time. Having previously heard (and loved) this particular 8B in its original form, Craig Ostby's rebuild (NOS Valves) truly did a great job in restoring this beauty to its legendary status. Even though it was detailed on the top end, the 8B truly lived up to its moniker as the "king of the midrange." The crowd voiced its approval for this amp after the very first song. "Natural," "realistic" and "just like being there" were numerous comments heard by the crowd about the 8B. The last round was much closer. On the lower end, I actually preferred the bass of the Mark Levinson as sounding much tighter, and I thought that the bass of the Audio Research D115 was just "slightly" bloated. On the top end, however, the Levinson sounded a bit dry and slightly thin to my ears, and the AR tube monster sounded almost as sweet on the top end as the 8B. Given that the D115 was such a powerful tube amp, I was impressed with the amount of detail on the top end, and the lushness of the midrange was only exceeded by the Marantz 8B. The crowd preferred the Audio Research over the Mark Levinson, and this may also be a function of the speakers being run (horns love tubes). Ah......the speakers. As some of you may know, the test speakers were a pair of 1962/63 Klipschorns with JBL 2404 tweeters and a sweet pair of Universal aftermarket crossovers designed by Al Klappenberger (ALK Engineering). Kudos to Dave - his Khorns sounded great. They were very revealing, yet they adapted to the variety of musical formats with ease. Other than the various amps, the Khorns were the star of day. Thanks again to Dave and Colleen for again hosting this annual event!!

Waiting with baited breath. Carl.

This should be interesting. I am especially curious to see how my little 'ol cheap chip amp (with a tweak) does in the mix. Carl.

JC, were you guys using that Altec in a two way setup? I just looked at the specs and it claims 500 to 20 kHz! That's impressive. , passaveRudy, At one point I think JC ran the 902's in two way above Jub-clone bass bins. I know that Seti ran 511b's/902's above Jub-clone bins two way. I heard them both and without any EQ there was nothing missing in the HF to my ear I use the 902's in three way with passave nets and a JBL2404 tweeter for the sizzel on the top. Just my taste. Hope that helps tc 'Me too - love my 902s (actually new Great Plains 902s). I have used 902s up front with Al's one inch Trachorns with no EQ and to my ears, they go all the way out enough to satisfy me, without a tweeter. I used to cross my 902s over at 500 hz back in my (Khorn alone) days, but now I cross mine over at 800 hz (because I can in my current setup). So, I cannot speak to them at 400 hz. I have heard some nice two-inch drivers, but I still also love the sound of the 902s. VMMY. Come to think of it - - no more tweeters in my setup, front or rear. But.....don't currently have any sweeps of the 902/Trachorn combo. That will have to wait until I get through pile of "work" at work for the next couple of weeks. Carl.

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/131776.aspx Mike, the above following thread, called "Trachorns in the House," started off discussing Al's one-inch throat Trachorns but then got sidetracked into a discussion regarding the two-inch drivers Greg references. I believe Al also again references BMS in his latest thread about the B&C DCM50. Carl.

I dunno. Are you sure that your ears were accurate given the martinis? [8-|][:S] []

You have a pm. Carl.

BTW, John (DeafbyKhorns), congrats on your Trachorns. I ran Trachorns for awhile with the stock Klipsch midrange drivers, and can appreciate your excitement. I currently run both one inch and two inch drivers in my system, and I still love my original Trachorn 400s (paired up with Altec 902s). They appear effortless and can still handle high spls, despite their one-inch size. So......regardless of all the talk about two inch drivers (and throats) - since they are all the current rage, enjoy your Trachorns. I am. Carl.

Great post Al. Truly brought a smile to my face in light of much of the #$%& that has been taking place in this forum recently. Don't let "Johnny" rile your feathers. His allegiance to another in the forum is clearly showing. Just keep doing what you are doing - promoting common sense and a keen technical analysis to many who just do not want to read it. Carl.

Sorry to come back to the party late. I guess that I would have to respectfully disagree with Gartenman as I would upgrade the tubes in your Peach first before starting on the VRDs because the preamp has much more impact on your overall sound as opposed to your amp. Also, the JJs could be improved in your VRDs, but Craig designed a pretty nice amp that is able to use some inexpensive modern tubes and still sound good. As you probably know, the Peach has two different linestages, superloz and blueberry. The superloz uses two 6DJ8/6922/7308s (all the same type of tube - 6DJ8 - the other numbers denominate lower noise/longer life variants) and the blueberry uses one of those tubes. I would personally replace all three tubes in the Peach first. Be aware, as you have heard, the two line stages sound different - with the superloz being extended on the top end and more pronounced on the bottom end. Therefore, you want smoother tubes in the superloz mode (just make sure that those two are matched). Also, Mark Deneen, the Peach's creator, has also recommended that you put your best single tube in the Blueberry stage. I have personally found varous Amperex to be more extended on the top end than other types, but I have also preferred various Siemens and Telefunkens in my Peach. If you do a google, "Joe's Tube Lore" also evaluated 6DJ8s for reference. After you tube roll the Peach, give it month or so to listen to where you are before you start in on the VRDs. I learned the hard way to do upgrades in stages and not to combine things at once to give yourself a chance to evaluate the differences. Good luck. Carl.

thanks for the feedback, good reference on the 12AX7s, i have a Grado Sonata and was thinking of upgrading to the Reference...How do you like the Reference? I really like the Reference. Having heard and owned several other Grados, the top end of the Reference sounds more extended and the midrange is sweeter. The move was worth it to me. Carl.

Totally agree; I love the analogy. I also agree that tube preference, like most everything in audio is subjective to one's own ears. Years ago, a well-known reviewer performed an extensive review/analysis of many different brands of NOS tubes according to type (Joe's tube lore). Even though final tastes are subjective, I have found the analysis in Joe's Tube Lore to be fairly accurate as to the flavors of certain tubes. Since we are talking about 12AX7s in the JD100, see here: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html Carl.

You DID have to bring that up, didn't you? The Merlin was transformed to a more magical preamp when I replaced the JAN Philips 6922 with an Amperex 6DJ8. My ears aren't bad, but they are 60 years old, and the difference is AMAZING. Bruce Same here i had a JJ 6922 in my Blueberry and put in a Amperex 6922 Pinched waist, the rich character of these old tubes continues to blow my mind... Yeahhh.......now we're talking -- an Amperex 6922 pinched waist. Very, very, very nice tube. I have a Holland Amperex 6922 PQ in the Blueberry stage of my Peach (which is the best I've heard in that stage) and would love to find a cherised pinched waist. That being said, my consolation is that I have two Siemens CCas (late 50s) in the Superloz stage of my Peach. I have also heard considerable improvements by changing over to certain NOS over the years. Most in here that have tried and heard the difference do not have a financial incentive to say so. I have rolled several NOS into my Jolida JD100 including Siemens, Amperex, Mullard, Sylvania, GE and RCAs. The best I have heard are Mullard CV4004s, which have been in my unit for over five years without missing a beat. To each their own. Carl.

They are fun. I've been using them for awhile now. The best sounding ones that I have found on the top end are also the lowest powered - and most basic. Some of the little T amps are the smoothest solid state on the top end that I have ever heard. If you want a treat, pick up a very inexpensive t amp (parts express still sells a dayton version for about 50 bucks) and hook up the amp directly to a source (CDP, ipod) and then to the speakers. At only about 10 watts, it won't crank to high spls, but the combo sounds pretty amazing for up to medium volumes. So much so that I have three of these little setups around the house (outside, garage, and bedroom). If you are going to use a little T amp to run full-range speakers, the amps sound better run directly without preamps - directly from a source. The smaller T amps also make great "horn" amps on the top end. If you actively bi (or tri) amp, and if you only ask them to run one horn per side (or one horn plus a tweeter), they have more than enough power to go as loud as you want. My main setup downstairs is a 7.1 setup with active biamping up front and active triamping in the rear (VOTTs/Khorns up front and quasi-Belles in the rear). Up front for my Altec 902s, I use a Trends "T" amp the size of a matchbox, and in the rear for my two-inch mid drivers and tweeters, I use a Sonic Impact Super T amp. Both amps have their own stand alone power supplies (I chose Kingrex's PSU), the effect of which is to make the little amps sound even wetter and round off what little edges were left. I have some nice tube amps in my setup and around the house and still enjoy my tube amps. But, for portable setups (and for portions of my main setup), I really love the little t amps. They are great so long as you do not ask them to do too much. Carl.

Your thread is less than 48 hours old, and you call "BS" on the Underwood mods because no owners have scrambled to answer your thread yet? Oh well, its a free country. Carl (Proud owner, Underwood Level One Jolida CDP) P.S. Try the search function.

Of course, Jay does not have much public support. He may have come across as a nice guy to you at lunch, but what he has done (now twice) is simply not honorable now matter how that you slice it. And as I have read elsewhere, apparently his actions are not appreciated by his colleagues in the business. NBC shares some of the blame, but sometimes the public gets it right - and recognizes an individual's role in a debacle, despite his protestations of innocence on Oprah. I disagree that based on Conan's numbers at the seven month mark that it was a foregone conclusion that he was not going to keep the Tonight Show, absent NBC idiocy and Jay's meddling. The reports when all of this broke indicated that the affiliate stations were the most concerned about Jay's poor numbers at 10 p.m. EST due to the detrimental effect on the lead-ins to local news telecasts, and that was the motivation for the behind-scenes revolt to NBC brass. Also remember just how bad Leno's ratings were early on, especially in 1993 and 1994 when he first went up against Letterman (Leno turned the tide in July 1995 starting with the "infamous" Hugh Grant interview and after NBC unveiled a new set putting him closer to the audience). NBC gave Leno three years to turn things around. Bringing up Conan's ratings after seven months is just an attempt to deflect blame on Conan, who deserves none. Oh well, nothing else matters so long as Jay is happy................ Maybe he will celebrate by purchasing another ten vintage musclecars to add to his collection.

Yup, hey sound even better on battery pwr...... Carl.

Those little amps are very durable. I was first turned on to them a couple of years ago. They have their limitations but they are an incredible bang for the buck. The strength of the amps is their smoothness on the top. They sound even better directly run from a source (CDP, Ipod) without a prepro. The other interesting thing is they sound a bit tubelike on the top end once you mate them up to a stand alone PSU. The sound improvement is really somewhat amazing with a PSU. I currently have a bunch of them in setups around the house (patio, garage, bedroom etc) that I simply plug in my CDP or ipod to various Klipsch and JBLs throughout the house. I also now run them front and back on the top end horns in my main setup with stand alone PSUs and a tube prepro (active). If you keep them within their capabilities, they sound amazingly good. welcome to the club. Carl.

Congrats on the Fortes. There is no doubt that the tractrix mid horn in the Forte II is smoother sounding than the mid horn in the Forte. That being said, some of us still prefer the sound of the Forte over the Forte IIs. The speakers appear to be voiced differently. YMMV. Its close though and both are great speakers. Carl.