Deang

A truly frightening thread. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

Out sourced - I emailed Bob about the Reference drivers last week, and apparently -- it's a trade secret The fact that the Heritage stuff was put on hold for so long due to supply problems also indicates that these drivers are out-sourced as well. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

That's true, you can theorize all kinds of nifty stuff -- that is why I originally kept trying to put the emphasis on how the new cones sound. I keep resorting to throwing up this damn white paper to back up my experience. The truth is -- I just think they do a hell of a job. Something 'engineering' related has to account for the cleanliness of the midrange, and dynamic punch found in the upper bass -- all together without falling apart. If we don't credit these new drivers with 'something', then what do we credit for the grand sound of these boxes? ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

I was actually looking at the model called the 'Whisper' for $14,500. You're right though -- the Focus is the one he is referring too because the Whisper uses 15" woofers. Beautiful speakers for sure. Looks like that upper midrange is being carried by a dome driver. That top end probably does sound very sweet. Can't even imagine how much power you would need feed into one of these to get the same slam as Klipsch with low power tube gear. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

Clueless Everything past my signature 'Dean' is from the white paper. Many feel Klipsch not adding a midrange horn to the Reference speakers -- objectionable. I counter that 2-ways sound better anyway. The 'Heritage Brigade' counters that since most 'music' actually occurs in the midrange -- dropping the midrange horn means that the Reference speakers are not really horn driven, and that the horn loaded tweeter amounts to nothing more than a 'token' horn. I counter that two-ways sound better. Actually, I would say that the horn in Reference is handling all of the higher harmonics associated with the fundamental tones -- and so is largely responsible for much of the low level detail. I also point out that the new drivers are far superior to other drivers using conventional driver materials (straight aluminium, paper, polyproylene, and Kevlar)-- and that the Reference cones, though not horns -- are very dynamic due to their thinness (light) and stiffness. They counter that this is B.S., and that the aluminium cones are nothing more than that -- aluminium. This means that in addition to not providing the hair trigger dynamics of a horn midrange, they are subject to main problem associated with metal drivers, ie - 'ringing'. The ringing on the highs is no problem, since most of it takes place around 22Khz. Only your dog or cat will hear it. The ringing in the bigger cones is a problem. In spite of the great transients and speed found in the metal cones -- the ringing is clearly audible at the higher SPL's. I don't hear this property with the Reference speakers. If anyone would notice it, it would be me -- because I drove my previous RB5's, and my present RF7's to blistering levels. They don't ring. Why? I say the anodizing process creating the thin layers of ceramic on either side of the cone creates the damping necessary to squelch the ringing. John, obviously thinks I'm deluded -- and that the anodizing doesn't amount to a hill of beans. The white paper explains the benefits of the process. http://www.infinitysystems.com/home_audio/whitepapers/cmmd.pdf ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-12-2002 at 04:16 PM

Well... 1) Most average sized listening rooms would not accomodate the Legacy well. I would have no use for them just from that standpoint. 2) Not a good speaker to run with a low powered tube amp. So...you are stuck with the wonderfully grainy, filmy sound of solid state. 3) I personally do not care for the sound of multi-way designs -- especially those employing dedicated cone midrange drivers. The only multi-ways I have ever heard that I liked, used dome midrange drivers (like old ADS). In other words, it's not a two-way -- so who needs it. 3) Ribbon tweeters sound to soft. What a horrible choice for HT. 4) I betcha my RF7's sound more dynamic with a 15 watt tube amp than those beasts with 200 watts. 5) As far as quality of sound goes, THAT is purely subjective. IF you factor in cost -- consider that for $14,000 you can get seven pairs, or (14) RF7's. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-12-2002 at 08:23 PM

My cones are prettier than your cones ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

So Ken, was that nice Russian ammo non-corrosive? Might want to soak the metal of that weapon in kerosene for a day or so. Kev, did these Cornwalls sell out of Ohio -- or BF Egypt like the rest I always see? That's O.K. -- there's something about holding a rare matched set of Amperex 7308's in your hand -- that is another kind of rush altogether. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

"I'd love to change the world, but I don't know what to do -- so I'll leave it up to you."f>s>c> ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

These opinions are very good news for guy with the now empty wallet. Thanks. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

You're right "anodization" isn't a word. Of course, I didn't know that until I just tried to look it up. Hey, I told you I wasn't an expert. If the process doesn't make any difference, than why do these anodized drivers sound so different compared to more conventional drivers? I listened to some NEAR's once (with metal drivers) and you could clearly hear the ringing at higher SPL's. I don't hear this with the Reference speakers. How much damping should one expect find on the surface of metal to make a difference? Doesn't seem like it would take much. The speaker in my last post is not JBL Northridge, it is made by Infinity. Man, you're brutal. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-09-2002 at 09:07 PM

John, What kind of shape do you usually see the EICO's in at your hamfests? Any idea about how much they run? ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-09-2002 at 08:43 PM

where is everybody sure is dark in here there is the door for two channel forum follow me ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25/ S F Line 1/ S9000ES/ HSU x-over/ SVS CS+/ RF-7 Klipschcones®f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

Where did I get 8 watts from? Who knows. Whoa, 14 watts. Killer ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25/ S F Line 1/ S9000ES/ HSU x-over/ SVS CS+/ RF-7 Klipschcones®f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

Hey, I'm just trying to keep things moving over here on the old 2-channel forum, lol. It sure makes one jittery when you sit down and figure out you just got done spending enough on NOS tubes to buy a 3rd world country. (4) Amperex 7308 USN-CEP, white label, PQ military type, gold pins, and matched triode sections. $400 (4) Amperex 6922 PQ Label, white box, USA made, gold pins. $280 (2) Beckman labeled, Amperex 6922, USA made, gold pins. $100 (4) Amperex 6DJ8, Bugleboy Logo, made in Holland. $140 (2) Mullard 6922, SQ label, gold pins. $130 (4) RCA 6CG7 Clear tops. $64 (4) Siemens, East German EL-34's, matched quad. $125 ...and this is just for the freaking NOS. There is also the $170 I spent on my matched quad Svetlana KT-88's. I could have bought a set of Cornwall's with all that money!!! Ah, better not to think about these things. Oh yes, ask me if I like the sound of the 6922!!! Yeesh. At any rate. I'm set. I'm close to having enough tubes for 3 complete retube jobs on my equipment. This is important, as my wife is quitting her job in July to fully dedicate her time to home schooling the kids. So, no more play money for some time to come. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 / S F Line 1 / S9000ES / HSU x-over / SVS CS+ / RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-09-2002 at 08:34 PM

Kelly, I was really just making a half-hearted jest. I was inferring that in order to get the sonics the AE-25 gives me at full tilt -- I would probably be constantly pushing the EICO past its safe operating limits. Of course, I realize that there really ain't squat difference between 8 watts and 15 watts in the real world. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25/ S F Line 1/ S9000ES/ HSU x-over/ SVS CS+/ RF-7 Klipschcones®f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

To the Father of KAiN64, I know this may seem very hard to believe, and since I have 5 children of my own, I know just how hard it can be -- but your son actually knows what he's talking about I would take 2 Klipsch RF7's over 5 speakers of just about anything else. Huh, as a matter of fact, I DID buy 2 RF7's over 5 of anything else. I've been doing this audio thing for 25 years and have never been so impressed with a speaker at this price point. Yes, it's a ton of money when you are still raising a family -- but on the other hand -- you will never be dissapointed, and they will give you a life time of listening pleasure. As far as I'm concerned -- there is no 'Home Theater' experience', or 'live music' experience without horns. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25/ S F Line 1/ S9000ES/ HSU x-over/ SVS CS+/ RF-7 Klipschcones®f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

Leok, Thanks for the additional info. Am I correct in my understanding that this low power distortion inherent with solid state amps is not so prominent in amps not using transistors in pairs? Does this make sense what I am trying to say? ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25/ S F Line 1/ S9000ES/ HSU x-over/ SVS CS+/ RF-7 Klipschcones®f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-09-2002 at 02:58 PM

I'm curious about the quality of the preamp sections in integrated tube amps. What are the compromises involved in an integrated design as opposed to separates? I realized this is a very general question, but would welcome some comments nonetheless. Any ideas? ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25/ S F Line 1/ S9000ES/ HSU x-over/ SVS CS+/ RF-7 Klipschcones®f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

The article regarding the Williamson amps that John Warren posted the link for made reference to the inferiority of the oil filled caps. However, companies producing new amps present these caps as an 'upgrade' option. What's up with that? ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25/ S F Line 1/ S9000ES/ HSU x-over/ SVS CS+/ RF-7 Klipschcones®f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

Time for meat and potatoes. Now that I have completely exausted my bank account stocking up on NOS for my AE-25 and SF Line 1 -- what have I really gained in performance for my future tube needs? Are the sonic differences in NOS and NEW production tubes really worlds apart? Or is it more like slicing hairs? Is it like the debate regarding cables? Differences exist -- but so subtle as to not warrant the emptying of one's pocketbook? I suppose I could start ripping off my cages and pulling out all of my NOS tubes and replacing them with the Russian counterparts -- but auditory memory is so short, and it would be an exhausting process that I really don't feel like involving myself in right now. Hype and nonsense? Or the real deal? ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25/ S F Line 1/ S9000ES/ HSU x-over/ SVS CS+/ RF-7 Klipschcones®f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

I posted this question a while ago at the asylum and got various responses. The question is: What does 'standby mode' really do, and is it really beneficial to use it? The reason I ask is because I ran across a post some time ago indicating that Dennis Hadd of Cary Audio believed 'standby' mode to actually be HARDER on tubes, and that he did not advocate the use of it. What say ye? This of course leads to the natural follow up question: What is the proper treatment of tube amps in order to aid to the health and longevity of the tubes? Deanf>s> Cary AE-25/ S F Line 1/ S9000ES/ HSU x-over/ SVS CS+/ RF-7 Klipschcones®f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-09-2002 at 01:51 PM

Great posts Builder. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25/ S F Line 1/ S9000ES/ HSU x-over/ SVS CS+/ RF-7 Klipschcones®f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

Throw me in with Boa and Moon. I was kind of lazy in school. I graduated slightly above the middle in a class of 523. Luckily, my dad helped get me job here at WPAFB, and through other relationships formed at the base I landed a job in Computer Operations running IBM and CDC mainframes. I managed to the survive the UNIX distributed environments that superceded the mainframes -- and finally moved into networking 2 years ago. So now I design networks, and rely on experience and certifications to keep me marketable. I will say that hard work and a good attitude can take you a long way -- but only so far. People I work with who have degrees are making $15K a year more than me. Business rewards people with degrees -- because they paid their dues. If I had it to do all over again -- I would have went into the Air Force and went to school on the GI bill. All things considered -- God has been good to me. My advice: DO NOT SLACK. SET GOALS. FEED YOUR BRAIN. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25/ S F Line 1/ S9000ES/ HSU x-over/ SVS CS+/ RF-7 Klipschcones®f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>

A fraction of a watt huh? So what do we do about an idiot like myself that listens to predominately rock music and metal, and likes to push the envelope a little. I get quite a bit of satisfaction when listening at low levels in the early evening when everyone is at home. Yes, it sounds very good. However, if I take off early from work, or if no one is home -- I find my little AE-25 sounds its best when driven to the point of clipping. The soundfield becomes all enveloping, and the transients are nothing short of remarkable. I find the same when doing a DVD. I hook up the TV to the 9000es and let her rip. The sound is simply indescribable, and impossible to relate to a person who is doing all their listening with solid state gear. Oh if I only had the money, I would buy another AE-25 and go with vertical biamping. Maybe I can't understand the "fraction of a watt" thing, any more than my solid state friends can understand my '15 class A triode watts'. I think I can say with great confidence however, that an EICO-81 would last about 15 minutes in my system -- before being reduced to a pile of molten metal and glass. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25/ S F Line 1/ S9000ES/ HSU x-over/ SVS CS+/ RF-7 Klipschcones®f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s>