Khorn

Back a while ('70's) when I had a smaller house I had WAY bigger speaker systems in a room not that much larger than the one you describe. At one time or another I had a huge tri-amped Pro JBL system with seperate bass bins, wide wooden diffraction mid horns and high range horns then followed by LaScalas and then Klipschorns. Heck, even now my Klipschorns are in a room not that much bigger than yours, about 13' x 11' x 8' with a few external openings. I'm sort of semi "near field" listening and that can be a good thing. Although a bigger space is more ideal, you're domestic situation is far from being unusual.

I like : John Barbata Bobby Colomby

Very satisfied with my system as is. Only forseeable change would be if source software changes eg: fabulous new format introduced that was so much better it would be a "must have". Right now I'm concentrating on buying new (to me) music specially on SACD.

Anywhere from 90db to about 105db - 110db at listening position depending on type of music.

A link to one place its posted is below my sig but here it is anyway. 2 channel is the only sound system I have. Its a very simple and straight forward system...not too complicated: SACD Listening System: Sony SCD-1 2 Channel Stereo SACD Player Accustic Arts Pre-1 Solid State Pre-Amplifier Highly upgraded Nirvana Electronics Works A-60 60 wpc @ (8 ohms) Solid State 'Pure class A' Power Amplifier Klipsch "Klipschorn" Corner Horn Speaker Systems 104db/w/m Cardas Golden Cross Interconnects 'AEON 8'... 35' Speaker Cable runs Cardas Golden, Hex and Quad Power Cables. Target Stand supported by a custom built 2" MDF platform with adjustable "feet" BDR cones under pre-amp and amp

One manufacturer with a good reputation in the lower to mid price points is Arcam. If you could find a unit at a decent price to audition it might be worth the trouble.

I don't know what you consider "extreme" but the differences in players can be very substantial. These differences can easily be heard when auditioning players in a decent system when the only change is the player itself. I have found in the past that substantial improvement seems to occur at various plateaus. The under 1000k - 1500k level then the 1500k - 3000k level and the 4000k - 5000k and above level. These are by no means exact but I have found them generally to be valid. You mention the word "chain" in your post and that is very important. A sound system is like a chain and is only as strong as its weakest link. Another thing to consider is "synergy". You could have three different makes and designs of a certain type of component and all of roughly the same price and quality but one might sound/perform better in a given system due to to the "synergy" or matching of that component in that particular system. If the person who started this thread were to match a player to his system he might be able to attain a sound that in his situation is a big difference. From what I can gather he is asking to maximize the performance of what he has now, not upgrade his whole system. IMHO the best thing to do is get the loan of a couple of units and then just listen for a reasonable length of time, at least a day or two.

Ive had mine upgraded with Cardas wiring specifically designed for internal speaker wiring. They manufacture different driver specific gauges. Im happy with the results.

Yes, the Mayall is a pretty well recorded disc, one of my faves as far as that genre of music goes. But I really don't understand how you come to the conclusion of SACD being overly bright unless the discs you have experienced are from poor original masters or suffer poor SACD mastering. IMHO well recorded and mastered SACDs offer a very musical, relaxed and realistic sound quality. I find that a good SACD mastering is substantially superior to even the best of Red Book recordings that I have experienced.

---------------- On 8/26/2005 1:28:06 AM crazytubepower wrote: No the fourm will be closed, what am I to do, I cannot go on this weekend. What am I spossed to do! Help me ---------------- Hmmmm....let's see....I Know...BBQ!!! There's Steak....Chicken...Burgers....Chops....Roast.....

I had this built in January and have been very happy with it as an all round computer. Here are the basics: Processor: P4 560 3.6G 1MB 800FSB MOBO: AS-P5AD2-E-PRE Asus MOBO LGA 775 Intel 925XE Chipset Ram: 2GB DDR2 533MHZ 4 x 512MB PC4300 Video Card: Asus AS-AX800XT-2DT Asus (ATI) Radeon X800XT 256MB 2xDVI PCI Express Sound Card: Creative SBAUD2ZS 'Audigy2 ZS' Hard Drive: Seagate Baraccuda ST34008-32AS SATA2 400GB 7200 RPM 8MB NCQ Monitor: Viewsonic VP912B LCD 19" 12ms Antec mid-tower Sonata Enermax 600w Noise Taker PS Pioneer DVR-108 DVD writer LG 52x32x52 CD writer Logitech MX-510 Optical mouse and Elite Keyboard. Windows XP Pro Office 2003 Pro Symantec Norton Internet Security Suite a bunch of other software....

I bought a new computer system recently and the monitor I bought is a Viewsonic VP912b. It has a fantastic display quality and a pretty fast 12ms response time. There are absolutely no pixel problems. Im really happy with this unit and they have even newer models with faster response times if that is what you are looking for.

I've had Cardas Cross interconnects in my system before and I liked them very much. In my case they provided a warm, smooth and detailed sound. The price you're getting is real good. Cables can be very system dependent. What will you be using them with?

If I'm not mistaken, the x-over frequency points on the Klipschorns are individually "tuned" at time of assembly due to minor differences in each hand assembled enclosure (e.g. not "exactly" at 400hz). I would assume this would also apply to the LaScalas as well. This would make it a rather delicate process to set the dividing networks points and slopes. It would probably be best attemped with units that have "dial in" variable points and, even then you would have to have a "tuned ear" for optimal results. It might make more sense if you were substituting an "industrial" woofer for higher output (with less bass extension) OR using let's say a SS amp for the bass "slam" and a tube amp for mid-high "sweetness". Under normal circumstances as the speakers are so highly sensitive in their stock state I don't know how much would actually be gained in a home setting.

---------------- On 6/24/2004 10:44:42 AM Q-Man wrote You can't make the bass horn play lower by changing the woofer. The horn itself is controling the low freguency cut off point. Look at the LaScala compared to the klipschorn, they use the same woofer. You need a good sub, and there arn't many that can keep up with a Klipschorn. Room size will aslo be a factor. ---------------- I agree that for lower response bass augmentation in the form of subwoofers is the answer. I had LaScala's prior to Klipschorns and IMO there is no contest. It's not that the bass respose is just lower on the Klipschorns but there is a very noticable over all smoothness to the presentation over the LaScalas. The problem with finding a good subwoofer system is not so much the lower response and output but rather the "musicality". That is the attribute that the Klipschorn's possess over other speakers specially in the bass area. Low frequency reproduction is not that hard to obtain, look at all the cheap subs around that can reproduce explosions and all that. If a sub is just meant for movie use its not hard to get at a reasonable cost. It's when you want to reproduce accurate, musical and emotionally involving bass that it becomes a challenge and, it doesn't come cheap cause the amplification also becomes an important factor. That's why the Klipschorn's folded horn system is so unique over the range that it does cover.

---------------- On 6/24/2004 4:35:12 AM edwinr wrote: The original Bose 901's. I think they still make them. ---------------- They may still make 901's but they changed quite a bit after the first or second incarnation. The first few 901's were far less efficient and required heavy amplifiction to drive properly, A friend had them and used Crown Amps with them way back in the 70's. The later ones didn't even come close. In any case positioning was critical and, you had to like the type of sound.

---------------- On 6/23/2004 2:39:28 PM Frzninvt wrote: I use two Velodyne F-1500R's w/15" drivers to augment the bass, trust me the enclosure for them is much, much smaller they can dig much deeper (were talking Hz in the teens here) than the 2235H or 2245H for that matter since you will be dominant in the 30-50Hz range with those drivers and the Servo's in the Velo's make them much cleaner and accurate with no boominess whatsoever all that in a 20" cube is certainly hard to beat. Especially since they can be purchased on the used market for about $500. I guess that makes a hell of a lot more sense in a home environment and amplification is included. What frequency do you X-over at?

---------------- On 6/23/2004 11:05:00 AM D-MAN wrote: Khorn, Haven't done anything but thought about it... There is a JBL 15" 4 Ohm version that is pretty darn close to a K33E, or so it would seem. They are much more expensive than the Klipsch driver, which is why I hesitate. The major impact that changing out the woofer will be the crossover and the attendant mid/upper frequency outputs. They are inseparably inter-related. This problem can be better solved with an electronic 2 or 3 way crossover vs. a fixed passive one. I think rather than screwing around with the Klipschorn bass driver the optimal tact would be augmentation of the LF by adding the following: for the X-over: Bryston 10B X-Over For the LF drivers: JBL 2245H Two JBL single driver "subwoofer" cabinets For amplification at a reasonable price: Bryston 14B One decision would be at which fequency to X-over to the Klipschorn's bass driver. Klipschorns coupled with a pair of these subs should be a formidable system.

---------------- On 6/23/2004 10:42:03 AM Q-Man wrote: The best bet is to stick with the K-33E. It is made for Klipsch, and Eminence (sp?)won't sell it to anyone elce. They even say that none of their other drivers will work in it's place. We talk about mods and improving the upper end of the Klipschorn, which can be done, but you never hear us telling anyone how to improve the bass horn. The genius of Paul lies in the bass horn. ---------------- Agreed, the biggest attribute of the K-33 are compliance and through its loading has the ability to translate quick transients and maintain musicality to a reasonably low frequency response. Modern, specially, home theater requirements, alter the playing field to a great degree. Reproducing artillery shell explosions, volacnic eruptions and earthquakes was never an intended function of Klipschorns although they do a credible job in that regard.....to a degree. If going the bass augmentation route probably the best bet would be to set up 2245H's in 12 cu ft enclosers driven by KW monoblocks to use with my Kipschorns then, run for my life, 'cause from that point on I'd (probably) be homeless

---------------- On 6/23/2004 10:15:07 AM Frzninvt wrote: It's bigger brother would be the 2245H 18" woofer if so. ---------------- That's right, the 2245H is probably my fave and mounted in a 12ft/3 enclosure it can be awesome if driven by 500 to 1KW of amplification. Size constraints limit setting up a system with bass units like those in a home environment. The smaller 2235H would be an interesting experiment iF setting up a multi amped actively X'overed Klipschorn system.

Anybody here tried using the JBL 2245H med eff low frequency driver in Klipschorns? I would guess a multi amp configuration would be needed for driving it due to the less compliant driver as well as the lower sensitivity rating, although it is capable of handling a steady sine wave input of 150 watts so could be driven by a huge amp. If so what frequency dividing network did you use and what alteration was necessary for the driver throw (22mm peak to peak excursion)?

---------------- On 6/21/2004 10:13:23 PM AK-4 wrote: I would continue to use the Klipschorns as near-field monitors as I do now. ---------------- Ya know, because of room size restraints that's probably how the majority of Klipschorns are used. I guess for a near-field listening system like in the kitchen, my choice would be something like the BBC spec LS/35a or the new Spendor S3/5se speakers driven by a good high current (probably British) integrated. These speakers have an almost uncanny mid range realism to them. One attribute that both the LS/35a or equivalent speaker and the Klipschorn (talk about opposite ends of the spectrum) have in common is, if you hear a voice or a single instrument like a piano playing on any of these speakers in the next room you could swear the source was actually live.

Klipschorns offer the sound we like in a reasonably sized "all in one" solution. I've had a pair as my main speakers since about 1980. Can they do everything better than every other speaker? If we look at it reasonably, not likely. But they do most things so well while mainaining a resonable size/cost ratio that they are the best "ultimate" answer in most cases. I just replied to someone who got a McIntosh MC2205 amp and metioned that I used to have one that drove my curved horn bass bins in my bi-amplified McIntosh/JBL Pro system back in the seventies. The bass response/output in that system depended on the drivers used. For extremely high output you could use a very high efficiency "musical instrument" driver. For more bass extension such as home Hi-FI you would use a medium efficiency longer throw driver but, of course more driving power would be required. That's what I used hence, the McIntosh amps. I drove the mid range compression drivers which were loaded into very big, heavy and wide wooden diffraction/horn/lenses. The HF were slot loaded tweeters. The bass driven by a McIntosh MC2205 amp was crossed over using a JBL active frequency dividing network. The mids & HF were driven by a McIntosh MC250 and passive crossovers. I'll say it again I love my Klipschorns but, in all honesty I found that McIntosh/JBL Pro system more "emotionally involving" but then again with Klipschorns you don't have multi amps & mid range diffraction horns half the size of your living room! The only thing to worry about with Klipschorns is that you drive them with suitable high quality amplification be it SET or SS and you feed it from a really good source 'cause Klipschorns are very very revealing of what is fed into them. Give them a really good "front end" and a proper amp/pre-amp combo and you will be very, very happy.

Great Amp, those "autoformers" have a magic to them. I used one to drive my curved horn bass cabinets when I had my bi-amped McIntosh/JBL Pro system back in the seventies. I used an McIntosh MC250 to drive the mid and HF horn loaded compression drivers and an active frequency dividing network betwen the bass and mid/HF. I love my Klipschorns but, I really think that was my most "emotionally" involving system. Enjoy your amp.

---------------- On 6/18/2004 7:26:43 AM paulparrot wrote: Good thing you checked. Also, no speaker is 100% efficient, or even close. ---------------- So very true, while you may be able to get a certain measurable SPL level from a speaker system with a defined input, you may not get the quality of sound that you desire. For example maybe you can drive a speaker to a given SPL with let's say an inexpensive 50 wpc receiver it will probably sound thin and lifeless when compared to driving the same speaker with an high current capable 50 wpc amplifier that has far more reserve to draw upon. Sensitivity ratings are only part of the story.