ClaudeJ1

Funny. Maybe les Fancophones behave the same way, as I have yet to stain and trim out mine (add banana plugs on bottom, riser, oak molding, etc.) I didn't take pictures of the build because it looks just like the drawing from the top, and much easier than your THT build for sure........I used pocket holes and screw, so no clamps were required.........everything pre drilled before assembly.......which was slow and careful over only 2 days. Photos to follow.

Agreed on the base specs............... It's possible for mass produced units NOT to meet specification. Also big horns with big compression drivers that reach 110 db/watt makes high power amps the worst choice for music, even with an ultra conservative "crest factor" 23 db, it still makes a 20 Watt amplifier for a mid-tweeter seem very powerful lindeed, which is where you look at S/N ratio referenced to full output, which you NEVER reach in a mid tweeter situation except for PA stacks for live music. For home stereo, even the most dynamic of recordings don't require that kind of voltage swing. All other things being equal, the smaller power amps win the audible noise detection game every time...............oh, yeah, judicious SYSTEMS approach to GROUNDING too.....................I used to designe PC boards and that applie to audio as well as digital circuits. PS: I typically use only MILLIWATTS for normal listening from my not-so-conservative 90W/ch. power rating of my Onkyo receiver. I have to put my ear up to the horns to hear hiss..........dead quiet by way of short connections/integration good ground in a single box.

I built a "coffe table sub" from scratch from plans I got off the DIY forum. The performance is similar to the original Danley DTS-20 and THAT shakes my little basement room aplenty. With a single LAB 12, I feel no need for mor for movies OR music........got a solid18-60 Hz. performance from that one cabinet with the mouth right at my feet. I can only imagine what twin DTS-10's can do with 4 beefed up (3" Voice Coils instead of the 2 1/2" for LAB 12) Eminence Subwoofer drivers in 22 ft. horns..........geez. that is what Mr. KG4 should get for his MWMs if he's so inclined to put toghether more boxes.

OK, I can't resist this one: Do you throw a "hissy fit" when your hear it? LOL.

After having a two MWMs bins per channel indoors, I think it's a waste of time and efford to use 4 bins when 2 will do. It's only a 3db gain in output for a whole lot more cubic feet. I'm sure others will disagree.

Boy, no kidding, that's still enough power (20 db watts) to knock down a few linebackers indoors or out. Good advice.

Finally got it done a month ago. Still need to flush route the edges and stain, add oak trim, etc. since it is a coffee table. Protected by a thick blanket for now. Sounds great on music and movies. Flat from 18 Hz. to 60 Hz., with a slight dip at 70 and rise above 80. Using a 60 Hz setting below corner horns (see Avatar). For movies, the output gets the LFE channel with a 10 db boost. Otherwise, for music, it's 0 db boost and just extends down to 20 Hz. Never knew there was that much low bass in CD's before and thought it wasn't needed with corner horns. I was wrong. I can get to the woofer from the horn mouth, no problem.

I plan to use the MB-2 on the MWM's with the JBL 2360A horn I'm thinking to build another pair of MWM's to match the ones I built maybe next week I will start. Ecellent choice. You will have a close match to what I had for 2 years.

That's a steal deal. Those stacks should cost $600. I would have the MB 2 on top of a Khorn or MWM, since the efficiency matches, then add my coffee table tapped horn sub which uses the Lab12 driver. this will get you from 20 Hz. to 1.2 Khz. allowing something like Bob Crites top end from his little 2-way speaker to do the rest of the job to 19Khz.

You can't build an MB-1 it's a pretty fancy, huge molded horn, typically build in 2 halves, which is typical of Peavey back then. IIf you look at my Avatar, it's the bottom black one, immediately abover the corner bass horn. The MB-2 hovever is easily copied since it's a simple wood/conical type horn. Nothing in common between them except a 12" driver.

My coffee table sub, using the LAB12 driver, is very close to the DTS 20 in performance.......it's just folded more. The design was a coop effort on the DIY forum, using David McBean's Hornresp software for the simulation, Don Snyder's folding scheme and a couple of guys built it. With Mic in mouth, mine measures Ruler flat from 20-60 Hz. which is a perfect complement to my K bass horn clones and the rest of my horn stack (see Avatar). It adds a missing dimention to music, and kicks royal butt with movies. All from a $550 Onkyo receiver control unit with Audyssey Multi EQ room correction, and some exxternal bass, sub bass amplifiers.

Me too. I'm happy with my Coffee Table Tapped Horn of 18 foot folded length. Ruler flat from 20-60 Hz at the mouth, output to 15 Hz. useable with room gain. I don't use a Highpass filter because I don't listent that loud for music, but the +10 db LFE boost for movies does tax the Xmax of the LAB12, I can feel it with my hand, since the driver is close to the mouth and accecible from the couch............yowza. I've had other subs in the past, including TWIN VMPS Large subs with lots of watts, but I like the seamless blend of the Tapped Horn with the corner horns.....it just extends the low and another octave and a half..........amazed at what I was missing before.

Just built an 18-foot tapped horn "coffee table" sub with ONE LAB 12 woofer. The mouth is at my feet and makes the skin on my shins flap. It measures ruler flat to from 20-60Hz. at the mouth and has useable output to about 17 Hz. I keep the levels down since I'm in a condo. I can't even imagine what 3 DTS 10's would do with even longer horns (25 feet?) and 6 times the number of drivers. Heck most guyus are happy with ONE SPUD and mine is like 1 1/2 spuds.

Now that's what I call major sucking up! You never know.........

Now that's what I call major sucking up! You never know.........

It's via a computer connection and their downloadable software. I'ts 0.8881 milliseconds per foot. You need to delay the treble section, not the bass.The MWM is a 6 foot horn so let's say that your VC on the mibass is 2 feet back when it's mouth is even with the MWM mouth. You need to delay 4X the number above.

Yes, the Crown can be programmed for time delay.

PWK's own speakers were totally out of corners in his home. He built false corners out of 2x4's and drywall...4x4 feet. His living room was large and accomodated Valerie's Steinway and Bosendorfer Grand Pianos to the right of his 3 channel array, which was about 20 feet wide as I recall. That was a great, great room and sounded very good. I'm sure he wasn't against anything that improved sound without introducing distortion. I'm sure he was well aware of PEQ since his commercial divison embraced active crossovers and his own Jubilee speakers used steeper slopes, larger throat driver in the mid, and way more components in the passive network to EQ the sound flatter.

Built the Tapped horn on page 19 of this thread finally, as a "coffee table sub." Need to trim it up, stain, varnish, etc. Hooked up to my 5.1 last night and did the Audyssey setup on my Onkyo 706 receiver. The mouth of the horn is at my feet. The logic was that since it's an 18-foot horn, I would physically align the driver throat with the corners of the room, since my head is about 5 feet from th mouth. I was wrong about the resultant distance, as Audyssey chose 3.5 foot distance for the sub. The depth and definition of bass on musichas improved tremendously and the impact on and realism on movies is even more so, without pissing off the neighbors in my condo. Keep in mind that I listen at 85 db or less, but the amazing detail I get from my BIG STACK (see avatar) is very satisfying on all program material from my Blue Ray player.

I would give the crown to Roberto Delle Curt................www.royaldevice.com his whole basement is a pair of concrete sub horns to 10 hz. with 8 18" woofers in each throat. Built his own amps, speakers and ROOM. The whole house is a tweaked hi fi room. His sound principles are sound and they agree with much of what PWK has said about efficiency-distortion relationship.

They sound good and it was only going to be temporary until the MB-2 cabinets come down from San Fran. I have them crossed at 300Hz-800Hz 24db slope. Good choice of bandwidth and slopes with the MWM. I'd be anxious to read if you agree with my hypothesis about straight horns vs. folded in that critical lower midrange.

So how the 555 clones sound. What are your Xover points and at what slopes?

Well, let's see. I think you may find the extra critical detail from a straight axis horn to be better than the 555/LaScala/FH1 type of short W bin, since the sound changes direction abruptly 3 times in all of them. So I think you will find the MB2 to give you more detail and transient impact in the band I prefer to call "Lower Midrange" rather than MidBass. From my experices in the last 4 years, I believe that we should only allow folded horns below 200 Hz. because too many peaks and valleys show up at those frequencies. They can be tamed by digital PEQ but acoustically you are still turning corners. I prefer to be looking right down the throat of a horn for as much of the vocal range as possivle (80-1,400 Hz.). I had to do it with 2 horns, but I would prefer one. The MB-1 handles from 120 to 700 with first order network, so it gets real close. MB2's are a smaller, less efficient version of the MB-1's which were top of the line for Peavey in those days (104 vs. 109 db/W). They also have a bit less low end by about 150 Hz.but should be measured, eh? The longer horn/bigger mouth with CD properties, throat phase plug and a 60x40 dispersion angle of the MB-1 allows that horn to have a larger bandwidth as well. I cross mine to the K bins at 120 Hz, so I"m using as little of the many folded K bin at the higher end of it's band, where things get funky fast.Bt that being said, the MB-2 is an acceptable compromise, especially since it matches the efficiency of the MWM to a close degree, not requiring gain matching as much as my MB-1 does. Based on the large surface real estate of the MWM bin, you can easility accomodate and MB-1 and have it phase aligned with the bass by having it's driver stick out of the back about 2 feet. With the MB-2 you may need some time delay, which, unfortunately, in most analog active Xovers, the time delays are designed to delay the woofers, not the mid/treble horns.

I cross my JBL horns at 700 Hz.That lower bin looks like a 555 which was designed my Gary Gillum's son for the HPS-4000 theater system in the Boston area. Gary was former chief engineer under PWK and the co-patent holder on the MWM. I'm glad to see you using only one MWMs bin for the bass. I used to have 2 per side and found it was a waste of space.......one per ch. is plenty.

Yes, but his speakers have not horns.