soundog

The 4638s arived last night and I hooked one of them up to the parts express remote controled (very handy for playing wiht crossover points and for adjusting volume} plate amp. Holy sh..!!!!! My wife came home and said "Ae you crazy? Turn it down it's shaking the whole house!" (a very solidly built pre WWII CH colonial)!!! It was cranked slightly but it is very very powerful. Jurasic Park III was a real tour-de-force. Decided not to hook up the second one in the living room but rather put it in the basement with the all Heritage HT (have to lure an unsuspecting friend to my house to carry these 140 plus pound monaliths to the basement). Don't want to knock the RS-3s off the walls. Playing at a reduced volume along side the LaScalas they really sing. Very nice, very musical sound. And, Tom you're right, the midrange now sounds better than ever! It is a matter of balance. This is sure a lot of fun. A block and a half long tractor trailer pulled up in front of my house as a few wide eyed neighbors walked by as I was strugling with the delivery man to unload them from the trunk. Can only imagine what they were thinking. I'm sure sooner or latter they will make some sort of comment, probably after talking to my wife. Looking forward to Lima. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

I'm thinking of taking Tom Brennan's suggeastion and just leave the parts express plate ampss siting in their inner shipping material which I may spray paint black to match. Good ventalation, cheap and sure to produce some "what the hell is that?" comments. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 03-13-2002 at 08:33 AM

Would sure be great to have some Heritage speakers there to run comparrisons with Tom Brennan's stuff. No I'm not willing to bring the Khorns and LaScalas on the plane with me. Getting the LaScalas I'm using as surrounds off the hooks I am hanging them on the walls with would be just too much trouble. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 03-13-2002 at 08:17 AM

That possibility has occured to me. But note the "vented" enclosure in the Layne announcement. The Hereesy's would have to be vented to get the full effect of the new woofer. Makes one wonder about the effect of venting on the stock woofer especially using these parts express devices. Anyway, I'm up to my eyeballs in projects. The EICO HF81 is still begging to be tried out, the JBL bass bins are coming and will need to be hooked up to the parts express amps and placed (no small feat at 140 plus pounds!). I'm going to the Audiofest in Lima and picking up those bargain laScalas in Maryland and visiting my grandchildren on the way, and then there's the curling bonspiels and a huge influx of Olympic inspired wanabees, my 15 year old's basketball games. So if someone else (like NOS) wants to execute soundjunkie's excellent idea and report back to us, I'd be grateful and keep them in my prayers. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

Tom- I've found that both the Klipschorns and LaScalas require a lot of attention to room acoustics and acoustical treatment - absorption and diffusion material as well as , in the case of the LaScalas, placement. Of course they are very sensitive to source material (the harshness of some CDs and transistor amps). I have found that the combination of good DAC and tube preamp with a good solid state amp (for solid bass "punch") produces the best results. As you know the LaScalas definately benefit from good subs (I've used LF-10s to good effect). I have the JBL 4638 bass units (2) coming and they should work well with the LaScalas, I think. As you might remember, I got some old Altec 511B horns which I have experimented with, using the K55V drivers with an adopter. They require a lot of damping. I found giant baggies filled with play sand draped over the top and as a base support works well) they are an improvement' producing a smoother clearer more widely dispersed midrange. I would love to find a way to raise the crossover frequency of the bass bin to 500cps which would allow me to experiment with other drivers. Never-the-less the difference is not so dramatic as to cause me to make this a priority. I find the midrange quite good for most recordings with dampened K400 horns (after a lot of experimentation with room treatment and provided the tubes are in good condition!). Anyway, I'm waiting to hearing your set-up and discussing this more with you in Lima before I make permanent the 511B set-up (will have to construct some sort of top enclosure for the 511B and the sandbags}. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 03-13-2002 at 07:53 AM

These may interest you - K55Vs (Alnico magnets will not interfer with TV picture due to their construction)with K600 horns. If your amp can handle it use both with another tweeter top and bottom or each side ...it will centeralize the sound in the middle of the screen. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1338348946 ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 03-12-2002 at 08:31 AM

Because I dont want to punch holes in the backs of my Heresys but figured that those proposing to put their Heresys in a larger cabinet planned to abandon their original cabnets so they would have less to lose. I also hoped someone may have tried these or understood the principle behind them and could predict their effectiveness. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

Thanks ... I'm going to pick them up Sunday ... great price! I've become a LaScala investor! Well this way I get my center channel with a spare and if Ray ever wants his pair back I'll still be all set. I got a previous set with one blown woofer for $300. but had to make an overnight trip to get them. Needed to visit friends and relatives down there anyway. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 03-11-2002 at 08:04 AM

Recently there was a discussion in this forum about mounting Heresy components in larger cabinets. While I wouldn't do it, I was looking through a Parts Express catalog and noticed part # 296-546 - A "Scan Speak Aperiodic Vent". It is touted as a damping device that produces better bass from sealed enclosures that are less than optimum size. I have no idea how this thing works but if anyone has decided to use a bigger enclosure they may want to experiment with these first. If anyone has any experience or understanding about these devices, I would be interested. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=296-546 ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

Yes it is a good upgrade. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

Overuse of insecticides. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

JAD- That has been my experience with the 1050 and receivers I have been able to compare it to. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

While I'm not familiar with the receivers you mention, I can tell you the Outlaw 1050 provides top notch sound quality. It would work very well with any of the Klipsch reference speakers and, of course, would also provide A/V surround options. Great customer service also. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 03-08-2002 at 06:20 AM

Surround is fun for action movies .... I really like live concerts in surround ... the energy of the audience is infectious .... but then when I was a teenager I had one of the first stereo tape decks and the first stereo records (before a stereo cartridge was available) ... my friends and I entertained ourselves by looking at the groves through a microscope ... back then I had planes and trains crossing the room ... now I have them circling the room! Progress! ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

Ed- I have the LaScalas stacked and positioned to the side and slightly to the rear of the main seating position. The bottom ones are on lockable rollers. I rotated the top ones slightly towards the front; the bottom ones more to the center until I arrived at the best angles and positions. Since there are mids and tweeters top and bottom they center midway which seems about right. I have the RS3s in my other system about 7 feet high i and I'm thinking that might be to high. They should be alongside or slightly to the rear (the latter is ideal for multi-channel SACD) and above ear level but how much above ear level I think depends on the posiitoning of mains and center and I bet depends on room characteristics. Like sub placement I think the answer is to experiment, experiment, experiment. Remember in movie theaters the surround speakers tend to be on the small side and have to be diffuse because of the many rows of seats. Movies are made with this in mind. However SACD and DVDA multichannel is calling for full range speakers all around. Looks like some compromising is inevitable. At one point I was thinking of extending the top section of the LaScalas upward to move both mid and tweeter higher but they would still be quite directional. The above seems to be a better way to go. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 03-06-2002 at 08:22 PM

The venerable Klipschorn has become one of the most successful and enduring applications of horn technology. A result of some of the best engineering minds of the time, this technology was developed in the 40s and 50s for movie theaters. The components in the designs developed for smaller theaters were then translated into speakers for the home. Since recordings were in monaural, only one speaker was needed and, thus, their large size and bulk was not as critical a factor as it is today in multi-channel home theater applications. Never-the-less these old horns, designed for theaters, make for very good home theater today. But there are problems. Their size and bulk do not lend themselves to decorator applications and, thus, require dedicated rooms. Todays surround sound was designed for elevated surround and rear speakers. Ever try to hang a LaScala on the wall? Also the Heritage speakers were very focused and thus directional; were surrounds usually work best with a more diffuse effect. However, with determination they can make one spectacular home theater with the added benefit of full range capabilities for SACD and DVDA multi-channel music. I recently acquired two Heresys for use as rear channels (elevated on sand-filled Lovan stands) and have my LaScalas stacked and angled for a more diffuse side surround effect.My center channel uses LaScala components but with Altec 511B horns driven by K55Vs in an enclosure/TV stand I constructed. I am now using my LH10s wired using their line level inputs one for each Khorn and set to a 40 Hz crossover as Ray Garrison suggested (He was right my first attempt had them hooked up wrong). For non-musical movies I flip on my KSW-15 which is in the center of the room and supplies jarring and house-shaking LFEs. This brings us to the role of sub woofers in the modern Home Theater which allows for smaller speakers for center, surrounds and rear. Easily placed and mounted, they are more suited to decorator applications and space limitation considerations. So the answer to your question is depends. The newer speakers were designed for home theater and music and certainly the Klipch reference series does very well in this regard with the least effort. The Heritage speakers are, however, better on music reproduction but require a good deal of effort (not the least of which is obtaining them) to apply to a home theater application. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

Khorns are not currently in production so finding a new pair would be difficult. You can save a lot by buying used. The trick is finding a pair within pick up distance because at 168 lbs shipping and crating can be expensive. They do seperate into two parts. The year they were made makes for some small but debatable differences. If you can get a pair in good condition for under $2000. grab them regardless of year made. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

I think what Ray was recomending was to hook the subs in parallel to the Khorns using the subs line level input.. Thus the Khorns would receive input directly from the amp as would the subs. The line level outs that would involve the filtering you mentioned would not be used. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

yea that's a typo - S.B. LF-10 - I think I'll try them one more time - Ray usually is on target but he used a Rel with LaScalas which is somewhat different. I'm real satisfied with the Khorn bass but when I get a burst of energy I'm going to try it with line inputs and a 40hz rolloff point on both my Khorns with my two LF-10s. They are very musical and it is possible I had them wired less than optimally. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

Devices to allow one to switch between three optical inputs are available from Parts Express and Radio Shack. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 03-03-2002 at 05:07 PM

If you want good music you need a good pair of main speakers. The RB-5s would be far more acceptable than the surrounds. However, considering the quality and price of the receiver you are considering - anything short of full size main speakers does not make any sense to me. Multiple subs work well but would be better connected to the LFE output of your receiver. Your really going to miss those Khorns for music. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 03-03-2002 at 06:38 AM

Brings back memories. They both look in perfect (just out of the box) condition! ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

Keep us informed ...I got one on ebay for $105. about a month ago and just have not had time to work on it or even hook it up. Maybe after the Curling season ends.(no jokes -I am up to my eyeballs in curling jokes - but the Olympics have produced a lot of new member inquires - look its no more ridiculous than golf or bowling}. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

I am. With todays air fare bargains - it's costing me less than a week-end in NYC - looks like a much better chance to exchange information and hear and compare the speakers I am really interested in without the crowds and chaos of the CES and NYC shows ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems

Edster- I am using a 511B with a K55 driver in my center channel ...it works great even though the K55 goes down to 400hz. The dispersion is wider and it sounds better on vocals. Multi-channel SACDs seem to centralize the vocalist to the point where if you disconnect the center channel the vocalist practically vanishes. Of course, DVDs, Videos and TV puts the actors and vocalists in the center channel also, so this is a good solution for me. Greater clarity and dispersion without altering the sonic mid range match. I do not see a great advantage in altering the cosmetics of my Khorns to accommodate the 511s since they are only 12 feet apart. But I bet you would need this to use the 27 foot PWK setup which was based on the older wider horns. Al did a great job with his Belles but then, since they crossover at a higher frequency; he could use better drivers with them so this makes the effort more worth it. HornEd- Thanks for the link; the Toole lecture papers are fascinating and informative. I wonder whether the PWK dimensions conform to some of those "ideal" room ratios I've seen but cant seem to find at the moment. Wish I had the organization and retrieval capabilities of you, Gil, Homeless and others. That man with the menacing kung fu movies reminds me of one of my nightclub bouncer who appeared as a heavy in several Bruce Lee movies and was actually a kung fu master. He used to piss me off always doing those moves in my face but then it probably helped keep the troops in line. His brother was my head bouncer and was a former heavy-weight contender. With them I would tour the 70s after-hours clubs of New York including those in Harlem and Bed-Sty and the Lower East Side (where there were clubs that were not to be believed). The experiences have served me well in the work I do. For me to build a new house with a custom designed and dedicated home theater will take definite divine intervention and a miracle (people spend more on those then my whole house cost!) so keep me informed of your quest. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems