cc1091

I love my Rp-3s, but I do miss that full sound of the Heresy. Here is my solution. It takes the best of both the Heresy and the Rp-3 and combines them (using an MIT Terminator 2 Bi-wire). Rp-3 handles the low end, Heresy handles everything else. Rp-3 midrange and horn are unused. Odd how my KSW-10 didn't make the Heresy sound as good as this. Maybe Klipsch will add a new speaker capable of being Heritage class that is similar to this, but also extends the upper frequencies to beyond 20Khz? I won't hold my breath.

I too view BigBean's call to boycott with disdain. Though I would like to see more products of all sorts that are built in America, the simple fact is that the product appearing on the shelf has to be compete with those built around the world. If american products were always of high quality compared to those from other countries, the choice would be simpler. But since American products can not always be counted on to be superior in every way, the consumer is left to discover the best product for the buck. So do we lower the wage we pay our workers to build equipment so that the end product is less expensive, or do we impose import tarrifs to raise the price of foreign products to the level of those in our stores. Hmm..perhaps there is a third way..to support the vitalization of the foreign country so that their economy is at a level that is consistent with our own. When that happens, we will then see more of all products being built in America. I would much rather boycott poorly made equipment, and equipment that costs too much. I like my chinese made Rotel Amp.

to hell with e-bay.. Best wishes to your wife Jim.

Polk speakers will never be my cup of tea. On the other hand, a person could do a whole lot worse (Definitive Technology comes to mind). My perfect speaker would walk a delicate line between the sound field dynamics and sensitivity of a Klipsch, the overall detail of the B&W Kevlar driver and crystal clarity of a B&W Nautilus tweeter. Perhaps a dynaudio speaker would fit this bill, but I don't have the dough. I certainly wouldn't have any of that overly colored and almost Bose like sounding Polk mid bass. <hehe--I know, "Them's is fightin' words" Hopefully you will see I'm just Polk-in' some fun at ya..though it is overly colored by my ear>

and while I'm at it: Audio King (aka Ultimate Audio) is not a lot different from a Best Buy. In fact, these stores fit the early Best Buy model to a tee (you remember, before best buy was selling appliances and had a larger stereo department than computer department). Hell, why not buy from an internet retailer?

In my home town in eastern Iowa (which is now just over 200,000 strong counting the two small "suburbs" just across the street), the local retail environment was long dead before Walmart came to town. The Target's, K-mart's and mall stores had long before destroyed the retail environment (were talking about the mid 70's here). Walmart was not the start of the downfall for mom & pop retailers. That process had started long before. When I moved to Minneapolis (home of Best Buy, Target, Musicland INC, etc)in the early 90's I was amazed by how many of the mom&pop groceries that were still around. Now, they too have all but vanished. The ones that remain serve very specific ethnic groups. Usually non-white and non-english speaking. Though I loath Walmart, I cannot heap the death of smalltown america retail on their shoulders. It is the environment that make the Walmart's of the world possible that is to blame. Just as it is the same cause that forces Klipsch to build cheaper and cheaper speaker lines that are manufactured and sold in greater volume than ever before. I could not condemn Klipsch for seeking a larger market share, but I would become more scrupulous about the product sound and quality. If the Klipsch sound could not overcome the aura of cheapness lended by their proximity to Walmart then I could not buy their speakers. Similarly, if a speaker brand that sounded as good came along with a similar price that wasn't being sold in Walmart while the Klipsch were, then I'm sure I would gravitate to the brand that wasn't being sold at Walmart. Finally though, if some Aragon equipment were being sold at Walmart prices, I would be one of the first to purchase such equipment. But I'm not going to hold my breath for that.

I have not noticed an abnormally loud hiss from my Denon receiver, but it was there. Seems less after I routed the main pre out to a Rotel Amp. My 2 channel listening is often done via the "Direct" setting, so I bypass any extra circuitry on the tone controls. When the tone controls are available, they are always set to the "flat" position (tweleve o'clock). When I need to boost or subtract a frequency, I use the tape loop and an equalizer. I do remember one time when there was a lot of hiss. That was when my goddaughter had turned up the treble and I was listening in 5 channel stereo mode. Even the B&Ws had an abnormal amount of hiss. ------------------ Denon AVR-2700 Denon DCD1500-II Audio Control Octave Phillips CDR-765 Nakamichi BX-100 Sony PS-LX3 Rotel RB-991 Klipsch Heresy (1981) Klipsch RP-3 B&W602 MIT Terminator2 Bi-Wire Computer system: NAD 7130 Realistic Optimus Pro-7s (its only a computer system) Klipsch KSW-10

I considered Polk speakers before buying my Klipsch Rp-3s a few years back. It seemed like there was a very definite price point where the sound went from terrible on the cheap smaller speakers, to acceptable on their larger models. They all had that same silky warm, but overly colored low midrange sound that I remember from 15 years or so back when several friends owned Polks. Also, only the pricer models seemed to have any life in the upper sound ranges. They rate well compared to the newer Infinitys in my book. Better than any Definitive Technology speaker. Have the same silky mylar sound as a Martin Logan (though nowhere near the treble detail..or detail in general). And they can't hold a candle to a good pair of B&W speakers driven with adequete power.

Kansas Leftoverture. I don't know if they have remastered this CD yet, but the original CD release stunk. I still prefer the LP version even with its obvious aging. Husker Du's Zen Arcade CD also suck sonically compared to the LP. Led Zepplin Houses of the Holy & Led Zepplin #1 DITTO. I was also disappointed in the remastered Dire Straights Making Movies CD.

Actually Foreign watts are measured on the metric system and are slightly larger than the domestic system of watts. Take your English watt rating and multiply by 5/3 to get the metric equivalent. Hence the wattage rating for foreign models must be 3/5 the max power output of domestic models. Your local power company was working with Enron to try to reduce the size of the domestic watt further while charging the same rate for that watt. This message has been edited by cc1091 on 03-12-2002 at 12:29 AM

More musical? Hmmm..you must have really screwed-up your Rp-3s. Mine are very musical. As for the cerametallic cone of the RF-7's 10" driver, I don't think it could take the deep bass at 27-90 hz operation. If it can, it wouldn't sound as good as the present cone woofer. Only mod I would make to the Rp-3 is to cut out its mid and tweeter and replace them with a Heresy OR two RF-3s set at slightly different angles to get more Heresy like dispersion of sound. But that mod is a ways down the road. If you're heart is set on replacing the driver, use the driver from the KSW-10 woofer. I think you'll find it drops right in (like it was the same exact woofer with a different part name...which it is). Money better spent would be to purchase a Sunfire subwoofer. Or if you're really looking to shake the neighborhood, get the Earthquake Supernova or the Bag End Infrasub 18. If you can't hear the bass on one of those, then you're probably dead.

I'll stick to the two Klipsch speakers that I own, the Heresy and the RP-3. The RP-3 wins in these categories: -Balanced sound from 20khz to sub 30hz, no one frequency range outshining the other. -Point source like directivity..the right channel is on the right, left on the left..blends well in the middle. -More accurate in reproducing delicate quiet high notes than the Heresy. - Great speaker for both music and home theater. The Heresy wins in these categories: - LOUD. It can be loud with very little power. (efficient) - Dispersion of sound. The sound eminating from the speaker creates a wave of sound that is very distinct in its breadth of coverage of the room. Very even, very concentrated wide soundfield (much different from a point source) - quiet notes and electronics noise alike are easily heard on this speaker. - Sound eminating from this speaker has a much stronger sounding reflection from side and back walls than other speakers (except possibly other exponential horn speakers). - Ability to reproduce dynamics. Soft & quiet IS soft & quiet. Loud is very loud. - best used for music. Of the two, I enjoy the RP-3 most, but I fire-up the Heresy enough to know that they can still amaze me. I remember being impressed by the Klipsch Quartet (and I think the Chorus too). I will never forget my two encounters with Klipschorns (I can still feel that slam of the bass hitting my chest). I've heard the Belle Klipsches, but have no memory of any impression about it. I remember wishing my Heresy's had the bass of a Cornwall. I remember being mildly impressed with the bass offered by the KG2. The Forte 1 was cheap in my opinion, but had better bass than my Heresys. The RF-3, 5,&7 I am disappointed in. The RB3&5 are impressive for their size and price. I didn't like the sound from the Legend line or the Synergy line when I bought my RP-3s. That's my take.

Sidenote: Mobile - I didn't know a pic of a woofer could look so sultry. Yeeeow! Greens of plants etc are usually the downfall of Digital Cameras. The olympus captures it better than a Nikon Digital from what I've see. I think you're images have finally made the decision plain for me: Olympus. Back to Audio: Maaannn! You guys make me envious. Mods like this should be worth an independant thread on an independant website. BRAVO!

I have been a speaker wire proponent for quite some time, but I was unprepared for the magnitude of difference that quality interconnects from the pre-out to the amp made. For all the improvement, I'm sure there is a reason that the retailer gave me (for free) this somewhat raggedy pair of Monster cable interconnects. Time to go out any buy new. I see a few of you have a preferred brand, anyone else want to suggest a certain brand? Or conversely, is there any brand to avoid (besides Radio Shack). There are a number to choose from: Cardas? Tributaries? WireWorld? AudioQuest? Kimber cable? Monster? XLO? Straight Wire? Analysis Plus? MIT?

I tried using a separate cable to the RP-3 bass amp. For some reason, the amp often seemed to be very finnicky about turning on this way (perhaps the output from my Denon's sub out wasn't registering with enough auhority to trigger the amps). Anyhow, I find that running a bi-wire cable from my 200 watt rotel to the back of the RP-3s (minus binding clip) produces more than adequete bass. I don't believe my listening room is smaller than usual, but I know that one sub is pointed toward a wall that is only 8 to 12 inches away (angled away slightly to form what might be loosely considered as a horn configuration) I think this improves the loudness of the bass I hear in my favorite listening chair. Surely if I were to move the speaker away from this corner, the bass volume would decrease to more normal levels.

I brought home my Rotel amp from its five week visit to the repair shop (yeah, I did something really dumb, fortunately the Rotel warranty covered ALL the cost). I had been "suffering" with my Denon receiver's built-in amps during the interim and had used the connecting cable that had run from the preamp out to my Rotel amp elsewhere. When I reconnected the amp, I instead used Radio Shack gold RCA plugs. Usually I have no problem with these. They are not high grade connectors, but are many times better than the connectors that come with the equipment. Unfortunately, this time I could tell the difference. I was expecting to hear glorious sound once again. Instead, I heard good sound that was a little more bass oriented than I was used to. Also the treble was not well defined and seemed lifeless. I felt sick. Had I done something to this amp that would never let it return to its former open sounding, powerful self? Hoping to recreate my exact set-up from before the mishap, I searched around for that set of Monster Cable interconnects and placed them where the Radio Shack cables had been. Ahhhh...beautiful sound once again. Now I am making plans to switch out ALL of my Radio shack cables for something better. I have been a proponent of purchasing high quality speaker cables before now, but now I see the light for the highest quality interconnects too.

Good point Tom I've never understood the car audio thing. I like good sounds in my car, and seldom can I get that from a factory installed system. But I'm certainly not looking to shake the whole neighborhood. Clean sound, with reasonably good coverage of the sound frequencies and enough power to drown out the sound of the road. Home stereo though, I'll spend several thousand there. On the other end though, there are some groups where if you don't spend a minimum of 5 to 10 thousand on a pair of speakers along, then you just don't have what it takes. Maaan....if only I could exchange my paycheck for home audio equipment.

two fittyfi now. He11s bells! At that price I can buy these mint babies and sell my somewhat used and abused pair at a wash or better!

Reading all the posts about speaker wires, amplifiers and speaker upgrades makes me wonder about what other people would list as the gratest upgrade to their system(s) they have put together so far (that is..besides adding Klipsch speakers). For me it would be like this: #1 Using the digital output from my CD player #2 Buying a better wire for connecting my CD player's digital output to my receiver's digital input. #3 Storing my Heresy's and upgrading to the RP3's (though I still miss some aspects of the Heresy's) #4(tie) Adding a HIGH quality speaker wire. OR Upgrading to a high power amp that is a little cleaner than my Receiver's amp (200wpc vs 85wpc AND .03THD vs .07THD) ------------------ Denon AVR-2700 Denon DCD1500-II Audio Control Octave Phillips CDR-765 Nakamichi BX-100 Sony PS-LX3 Rotel RB-991 Klipsch Heresy (1981) Klipsch RP-3 B&W602 MIT Terminator2 Bi-Wire Computer system: NAD 7130 Realistic Optimus Pro-7s (its only a computer system) Klipsch KSW-10

quote: On March 9, 2002, Paul Wilbur Klipsch will be 98 years old and counting. Let us all pray for Paul and his continued good health, so that he may share in the celebration of this, the book of his life. DITTO and AMEN

I keep hearing about this and would like to attend, but it is 6 hours at slightly better than the posted speeds to Chicago from My location in the "midwest" (Minneapolis). I made it to Lancaster, Ohio in 16 hours last fall. I think I'll wait for a location in the "midwest" or mideast of the USA that is closer.

I know my hearing has changed. When I got these I could hear up to 22.5 Khz. I know that I'd be lucky to hear much above 17khz now (perhaps I'm being optimistic here). Usually hearing doesn't roll off in the middle of your usable frequencies unless something is drastically wrong (and especially when most other speakers don't have the same problem). Yeah, I'd bet my tastes have changed. But it still doesn't explain the muddiness at these frequencies. Your right in that I should recheck the squawker, though since the crossover is at 700hz, I'm not sure if this would do anything but cover-up the muddy bass. While I'm inside the speaker, i guess I will double check to see that the woofer is still wired to the crossover correctly since I did partake in the reversable network mod from a while back (and did reverse it back to the original). Hmmm..also recheck my soldering. Has anyone found a decent non paper woofer replacement? Not looking for more bass here (although lord knows the Heresy needs that too), just cleaner bass.

Thanks mdeneen. I'm glad someone could clarify my generalist thoughts with the actual poop from the patent. I think I like the part where it says, "As is well-known..." the best. anyhoo..I would just like to add these two things: 1. The MITs really sound great 2. With respect (and condolences) to all those who may be mortally affected, I DO want to see this thread reach 6 pages. This message has been edited by cc1091 on 01-28-2002 at 12:35 AM

Yes muddy. In the upper portion of the lower range of the speaker (that is firmly in the bass driver area). Yes the terminals seem to be correct + to +, - to -. Tweeter and Squawker are crystal clear. Imaging from tweeter and squawker seem to be fine. Just the lower end of the speaker (not the absolute lowest sounds it produces) seem to be muddy and illdefined. Muddy as compared to B&W 602s, and Klipsch RP-3s as well as the Quads. I've owned these particular speakers for about 20 years. I don't recall them being like this until about 10 years had elapsed. Could there be a problem with the woofers or could there be a problem with the oil filled caps?

I'm curious if anyone else who owns early 1980s vintage Heresy speaekrs (Heresy I not II), hears a lot of 'muddiness' in the 150hz to 250hz range of the speaker. I noticed this when I was younger, but felt it was probably because of the realatively inexpensive equipment they were connected to. I have now tried them with my relatively clean Denon receiver used as a preamp, output to a very clean Rotel amp, same problem. To remove all doubt, this weekend my heresys were driven using a Cary tube amp, connected direct to a new NAD Silver series CD player that sounds very fine though the owner's Quad 57s. Same muddy sound unless I connect in my EQ and set those frequencies down 3 to 6 db. Cleans it up a little, but doesn't remove it. Any thoughts?