The Dude

Ok first off I wouldn't necessarily call it a dedicated home theater. Nor is it for me, but I have a friend that was over at another friends house. Just to get this strait there were 3 of us myself friend 1 and his neighbor friend 2. Friend 1 has a Jamestown 120" screen with Optoma projector, and a 7.1 in wall surround sound system in a box setup with a Harman/kardon receiver. This is not a dedicated ht, it is more of a family/rec room kind of atmosphere. Which is what I will end up having(but obviously a different setup. I was talking more along the lines of family/rec room), and Friend 2 will have. Now friend 2 was talking how he would like something like this(this is who is on the topic of wanting a ht on a budget) Now budget from what he threw out was 5000.00 reason I say that is for the fact when he ask'ed how much friend 1's ht cost he thought it would have been around 5000. Now he might be wanting more or even less but judging from is taste he might be able to be pushed a little more. Now don't get me wrong friend 1's setup sounded great tonight sounded fine, but for movies it could be a lot better. Like I said friend 2's taste is a little different then friend 1's and myself. I do know he wants that wow factor, for one he is a big Star Wars/ Zeppelin fan oh wait i myself are fans of these. So I feel he is going to want a little more then friend 1. I think if he goes used on the speakers he could get a good price on some Heritage or Reference. I was thinking he could go with something along the projector/screen setup friend 1 has, Reference RF-52 II or RF-62 II, Onkyo Receiver . Some of those pieces would put him at or around if not a little more then about 5,000.00. Now if we could go used on the speakers he could higher end such as the RF-82 II system. I think the big thing would be to upgrade the sub since his rec room is fairly large. Now why such the long story, well other then the fact I wanted you guys to know a little about my friend and I am bored.

did you do a ohm check to make sure it has a 4 ohm voice coil.

Thanks, djk All three I have are mounted this way, I am sure when I installed them I probably looked up the manual or other pics. Its been a while and was sitting downstairs last night and got to thinking aren't those jbl baby cheeks mounted the other way(I know they are not exactly the same but have some similarities). So it made me wonder are mine suppose to be mounted that way. Thanks for clearing it up.

Its a Selenium hm17-25, I was looking at it. I know it was different on the sides vs the bottom. But I just realized I might have it 90 degrees off.

I think the kpt have a 15 downward firing, I build my own and used the 18" hangman. http://www.hangmanstore.com/Hangman-Products-Professional-French-Cleat-p/cbh.htm

Dude that same thing happened to me about 9 years ago with my first HK avr225, Luckily I was telling my buddy I had to take it in for service,. He says dude is the little one walking yet, I says well she is, He says check your balance knob. Good think I didn't spend money I didn't have at the time.

Have you tried to add some acoustic diffusion or absorption around your speakers, especially on the floor and ceiling halfway to your listening spot? The midrange horn in a CW spills a lot of energy in the vertical dimension between about 1800 Hz and 500 Hz, that is, down to the crossover frequency to the bass bin. Controlling this excess energy will increase detail and listenability dramatically and you can turn it up louder.Just my $0.02 Chris I will give this a try, I actually have been working on building a couple. Thanks for the input.

I had Cornwalls in a room 10x11' though they did sound good when I turned it up it was so in my face I couldnt focus on the detail. I then went to the Forte 1 it sounded good but once again somethinb about the bass that seemed boomy, I dont know if that is the correct way to say what I herd but thats how it sounded. I know have Heresy 1 with the riser tucked into the corner powered by a tube pre amp, ss power amp. I dont know what people are talking about when they say Heresies are lacking bass, I know its not kick in the chest bass. But I think it sounds pretty darn good. Then again I guess I never had my khorns in there as well. Dont forget Crites offers that cs1.5 ported like Heresy clone that is like a Hersey on roids, I think if I ever felt I needed more bass I would give it a try.

About $3KUS...each...the last time I looked. The 4003 must be really, really nice in order to be "more refined". I can't imagine a driver more natural sounding than the 4002. JMHO. I'd bet it would have to be EQed pretty high in order for most folks here to hear the effects of a "super-tweeter" due to natural age-related hearing loss. You also have the real problem of crossover design and time-alignment to within ~1/4 inch of the midrange horn/driver acoustic center. An active crossover would be required, in addition to an instrumented rig to help in the delay adjustment settings, IMHO....and your dogs and cats will hate you... Chris Actually, they quoted me as follows: TD-4003 $3500, TD-4002 $2250, TD-2002 $1695 and ET-703 $1475 I know as a matter of fact that my hearing drops off pretty rapidly above 12.5Khz. And while I can't hear much of anything above that, I can sometimes detect what those higher frequencies are doing, affecting, (frequency modulation?) interacting with the frequencies below. And yes, an active crossover would essentially be required and time alignment critical. From my discussion with them I think this was assumed since they also were recommending whole systems, all of which require active crossover (not that I won't be going active after the 402 switch) until I sent them links to my system here on the Forum so they could get a picture of where I'm coming from (and want to go). The few systems I've heard with supertweeters weren't setup that way, I've prefered them with the supertweeter switched out of the equation. Just my opinion but keep in mind I can't hear much of anything up there anyway. is that a piece.

Thanks for all the info guys, I think I have a good Idea what I want to do. Now its just contacting Roy, getting some prices and saving.

From what Roy told me and what I've read around hear it seems like the K402 should be ok with the Khorn. I guess some of it kind of depends on what driver you slap on the 402, and certainly how you pick your crossover points and slope thereafter. In regards to EQ, since adding the four Empire Epik subs, I also added a Behringer DEQ2496 on the Khorns and one on the Belle center speaker (3 total - one on the subs). On the Belle I used the time delay so the signal aligns with the Khorns, The Belle has the EQ cutoff at 80Hz so it doesn't interfere with the subs which are physically nearby and also time aligned with the Khorns. On both the Khorns and the Belle I use the DEQ2496's EQ for several "room curves". I have three different ones, more or less intended for different kinds of music. Starting at 20Khz, one is -8dB, rising 0.5dB per 1/3 octave until it reaches "flat". The second is -11dB, and the 3rd -14dB. The -8dB is for rock, -11dB for jazz and -14db for classical which is more in line with what we would normally hear in a concert hall. I used the DEQ2496's Auto EQ for getting the response as "smooth" as possible along those parameters. Obviously, you can use any of the EQ curves for whatever you want or bypass them entirely. Also, I kept 100Hz and lower out of the Auto EQ process for the Khorns and Belle because Behringer says the algorithm they use may cause inaccuracies in the results. I also run the Khorns full range thru the bass without any cutoff as on the Belle since the subs are time aligned with them. The EQ makes a subtle difference, mostly an improvement in articulation especially with voice in a "thick" mix. Everything I've said is in regards to digital playback only, primarily CD and SACD played on the SACD player. On vinyl LP I think the EQ settings described above makes things sound worse. thank you this answers alot

Ya that's probably the way I would end up going.

What ever became of this as I would like to see some plans on the Jubilee. Thanks Nick

Why don't you tastefully integrate them into your living area one weekend while she's out and see how she likes it? They might not look as bad as she thinks. When I was going to put a pair of Fortes in my living room I had my Cornwalls in there for about a week. When I was going to move them back up stairs the wife said, I kind of like the Cornwalls down here you should leave them. I looked at her with a puzzled face for about a min and know this is a time I keep my mouth shut and go with it. I have recently replaced the entertainment center with a different one.

So I take it you got your answer as if the k-402 will work with the Khorn bass bin. This was kind of what I as well have been wondering, will you be doing any equing withe the Khorn bass bin or did you figure out if you even need to with the k402 horn. I will be interested to here what you have to say about the sound of the k402/Khorn bass bin combo.

What did he say about using the 402 on top of the Khorn. All so Mike would the 510 be used as just as a mid, while still using a good tweeter. How high does the 510 go reason I ask I am currently using Bobs, 4500/400hz crossover. I don't want to have to spend more money on new crossovers. I wouldn't mind using the 402 as maybe someday I would upgrade to the Jub, but for know I have to work with what I got.

ditto So I take it you guys wouldn't recomend it. Which brings me to another question how low does the k400 go, if it does go down only go to 400 hz. Then were the lacking frequencies not a concern, if so then should I not be concerned about the altec 511b not going low enough. I guess I do have a few things I could play with to see how it sounds.

I think any time you change anything in your system such as adding curtains, sound traps, chairs couches etc.., especially speakers you want to rerun audyssey. There is a thread I think over at the AVS forum that talks about tweaking audyssey for perfection.. I think audyssey can be good or bad depending on your situation and liking. Some even turn off completely and adjust to they're own liking.

So since these readings are taken in a different environment then my room. It would be best for me to take some readings in my room to see were I have issues. Then boost the frequencies that need be. Would any of the eq's or active cross overs out there work, such as the minidsp, crown xti 1000, or even one of the Berhingers or EVs everyone uses. Maybe I should start with taking some measurements, any recommedation how to do this. Could I use my laptop and a caliberated mic with the right program. Thanks

First off I might not even know what I am asking(except that equing would be like turning up the frequencies between 400-500hz). Second this is mainly for HT purpose though I do like my music. Now the reason I ask, Is I have read that the Khorn struggles about 400hz. I am using the 511b horn with the k-55v, I knowing that the 511b horn only goes down to 500hz. Maybe its not necessary, maybe its bugging me. If I can what does it take. All so I am running a Lascala with the same configuration same horn same driver same crossover(which is the b&k 4500) from what I have read it goes over 400hz so is this still a problem. Thanks Nick

All so what is the frequency range of the 510

Is that the 2446h, and the 2445h. What are the drivers made of.

Dave, I like the way you explain this.

I think if you could get your l/c/r matched up right you would be in good shape, anything from the reference line would be great. You could look at some of the bookshelf systems to save you money, and space. Some good subs and you would be set.

Sounds to me he likes the Belles with the Crites upgrades such as new caps or crossovers, and new Crite tweeters. Sounds good to me.