Q-Man

I have to agree with Craig. I like the sound of the LaScala best when it is tucked into a corner.

WOW! BobG, it's nice to see that you are still around. I hope all is well.

It is, unless you can use another Klipschorn.

K-55, what's that? The dealer that I talked to sells both JBL and BMS. I started looking into the 2" driver to use with the University Classic bass horn. Some of you know that I like the sound of the Classic better then the Klipschorn, but the classic doesn't go as low. I can also fit a larger horn on top of the Classic. I found a guy in Canada that makes some horns that are usable to 300Hz, but they are too large to fit on top of the Klipschorn. If the BMS driver and this horn sound any where near as good as my Altec 290-16K driver, Altec 311-90 horn, and the JBL 2404-H tweeter it should be a keeper. Then I will have to find or make a horn that will work with the Klipschorn. If this works, it should be a mod that anyone can do. The reason I say that is because you can buy the parts new, instead of looking for classic drivers and horns.

D-Man, I'm going to try the H4592ND one of these days. I've been meaning to compare it to my Altec and JBL top hat. I'm way behind on the things that I want to do, as you know. I still want to try the bass horn that we discussed. I'm told by a pro JBL dealer that he likes the sound of the BMS drivers over the JBL drivers that he sells.

For $1,600.00 you need to buy them even if you don't want them. You then can play with them for a while and get to know the speaker. Everyone should know what the Klipschorn sounds like. Don't pass up the opportunity to experience the Klipschorn sound. It will help you to be able to judge the sound of other speakers. Then go ahead and sell them and make a few bucks.

That picture was taken when I was still working on it. I can tell, because of the wires coming off of the back of the speaker. I can actually attenuate the tweeter in 1,2,& 3db steps. There were a few times that I felt that I should knock it down a db or 2, but my kids say not to. Since their ears are better then mine above 10khz I keep it the way they say. The Klipschorn is 31-1/4" wide, so you can see that the 311-90 is 29 wide. The 290-16K driver has a fs of 225Hz per Altec and 260Hz per measuring. I've been told that the best way to minimize distortion is to stay away from fs. by about one ovtive. The network crossover point went to about 400Hz., a little higher then I wanted to go.

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I too don't use any attenuation with the tweeters, and I have a custom network that I can attenuate them by 1.5db. I never felt the need to even try the setting. I also use the tweeters with a different midrange horn and driver, so were not compering apples to apples here. I only use the Klipschorn basshorn. I never tried the tweeter with the K-55 and K-400. John Warren has designed an add on tweeter network for the stock Klipschorn and the JBL 2404-H tweeter.

---------------- On 7/8/2005 11:49:43 AM damonrpayne wrote: I thought about this some more. Was anyone else relieved with what they heard during the listening test? I've not done blind A/B tests before, so this was my first chance to confirm to myself that I can indeed hear the differences in different systems. I've read things that state humans do not have very good sonic memory, so going from one person's house to another will befuddle what you hear. ---------------- I say you need to A/B the gear if you really want to recognize and understand the difference in the sound. This is a must when doing speaker mods. I've been fooled by a few speakers over the years. I'll hear a speaker somewhere and think that it sounds rather good. Then I'll take it home and put it next to a Klipschorn, LaScala, or one or two of my other speakers that I like. With in minutes I say to myself. " You were fooled again."

I wouldn't let a contractor/home builder put in the false corners. The position of the corners is critical and I doubt they will get them right. You may also want to change things some. I changed my room at least 6 or 7 times now , and I'll probably do it again.

Rudy, I'm sorry that I havn't answered your questions yet. I have a lot going on right now. I'll try to get back to you this weekend, and explain more. I received the C-1 and I have been busy experminting with different set-up options. The hardest thing was getting the front effect channels up. I've also been trying to pick out a new car for my wife. Last night I took out the 400hp GTO with a 6 speed std. shift. That was fun. I think that might be her next car, except it will have to be an automatic :-(. The face of the TV is about 40" from the wall behind it, and the false corners are designed to be flush with the TV. The corners arn't just walls. Mine are more like a cabinet with a back,top, and sides. I can actually get inside of tham if I pull the TV out. The easiest thing to do is draw them out on the floor after you deside where you want your sweet spot to be.

Type 1 is the way I have mine mounted. The instructions recomended that way.

The front effect channels come from channels 9 & 10. They are output from PRO 1 and PRO 3 from the four programmble channels. The manual suggest a few ways on how to set them up. I'm going to start by cutting off the LaScala front effect speakers at 60Hz. I'm going to feed the right speaker 70% of the main right channel and 30% of the main left channel with it's polarity reversed. I'll then set the distance a few feet farther away then they really are for a more spacious sound field. I'll tweak it from there. I can tell that I won't be setting this thing up in one night. It's going to take sometime to get it adjusted to the room and my taste.

I was affraid of that, that's why I planned on starting with the unbalanced. I'll drop you an email after I get mine up and running. I may have a question or two more by then. I have mine running silent now, but it took a few tricks with how I run and shield some of my cables to get it that way.

Rudy, You can make front effect channels with your C-2 processor. Once you go with front effect speakers you will never listen to music without them again. Yamaha receivers taught me this trick. That's my main reason for going with the C-1.

Rudy, I just ordered a C-1 and have a question for you. Are you using the balanced or unbalanced outputs? I'm going to start off using the unbalanced, because the balanced are 6 db hotter. I'm afraid that that might cause a loud hiss level from the Klipschorns.

I have my Klipschorns on the short wall with false corners. The sweet spot is 20' back. I think false corners work better then room corners. You can build them square, so the klipschorns will have a tight fit. Mine our double thick 3/4" plywood on 2x6 framimg. Plenty strong enought to hold the Klipschorn center channel and the LaScala front effect speakers.

It might be helpfull to also use a bar clamp. You could tighten up the sides by pulling them into the 2X4 braces. You might even be able to get by just using the bar clamp alone. Maybe just pinching the sides in might stiffen them enought?????

Al, That would be a good way to do it after you try out a temporary brace first, to see if it's worth the effort. Theirs no doubt the bracing will cut down on a resonate frequency somewhere in the bass horn. Meaning a slightly cleaner sound. Again, how much of an improvement? I never tried it, so I can't comment on it. Paul did cut a few corners. We discussed this mod two or three years ago. John Albright might have tried it. I remember talking to him about it. So Al, I've been catching up with my reading here. I see you have been busy. I guess there is no slowing the old man down .

Bracing is the way to go. Doubling up the exterior does very little to stiffen the cabinet. For now rough cut a 2x4 and try it. Cut it smaller then required and wedge it againts the dog house and the exterior side of the cabinet. I say cut it smaller so you can pad the ends when you wedge it into place. Use a towel, piece of rubber, or something handy that can be placed between rhe 2X4 ends and the cabinet. This will keep the 2X4 from scratching the cabinet. Do one speaker and A/B it with the other one and see if you think that it will be worth doing the mod.

Andy, I was looking at the drawings for the center channel basshorn that we sent back and forth to each other some time ago. It might be worth giving it a try. Hang in there, Q.

Goes to show you that this Forum has a lot of new comers if they wern't around at the time of the first visit. This is part of the reason I stayed away from the Forum this last year. It seems that all the queations being asked now have been answered over and over again over the years. There is a lot of usefull information on this Forum. You just need to go back in time and take the time to read alot of the old post and topics.

---------------- On 6/26/2005 1:21:58 PM DrWho wrote: ---------------- On 6/26/2005 12:38:17 AM tpg wrote: My sources and amplification are not the best, but I'd prefer to start inside and move out. ---------------- I sincerely think you got it backwards...get the source and amplification right first and then start playing with the speaker. With audio you always want to start with the weakest link and I can guarantee the crossover isn't the weakest link by any means (unless of course the components are damaged or not working properly). If you've ever listened to the stock speaker on very high quality amplification and sources you'll know what I'm talking about. IF there is any improvement with a new crossover, you're not going to hear the difference if your source and amps suck. You might think you hear the difference, but it's mostly a psychological game. ---------------- I disagree here. I believe that you should first make the speaker be all that it can be, then move on. Once you have found the speaker that moves you, and you don't think that you can buy another speaker that will suit your taste more then the one you have, then tweak it. I feel that some of you still need to find this speaker, before putting too much money in the ones that you have. Unless your like me and some others here, and just like to play around and have fun experimenting.