Bubo

I've had a stock pair for 30 years that sound good to me. Probably time to recap the cross overs. As to doing a bunch of mods, I would probably just build from scratch which would be cheaper and yield better results. As stated above, room treatments, and placement are important as is the source material GIGO.

In decending order, the best sound quality is: DTS Master audio at 24 x 96 Vinyl records, if they are good recordings GIGO CDs with an external DAC or a decent DVD player with RCA out, the DSP tech has really come down in price. After the above, less bits is less quality. And keep a mind to which DAC you are using, the 50 cent DAC in a phone is probably not as good as the one in a quality $35 DVD player, which is not as good as the one in a solid mid range $300-500 DAC etc..... More bits equals better quality, ceteris paribus. NO matter how expensive the gear, it can not fix a bad recording or over rated performer....

Yamaha makes products that have lots of effects that can be used with 6 or 7 speakers to reproduce various concert halls. IMHO the main thing to think about in a typical, I wish I had a bigger and better space for my stereo, room is damping and minimizing reflective surfaces. Book shelves with books, stuffed furniture, carpets or area rugs, heavy curtains for the windows. There is nothing quite as good as open doors and windows from my experience. Spaces with good corners, two of them seem to work well. My 2 cents......

Andy, Moving parts are the first thing to die. DSPs, like all micro processors, improve dramatically evey few years. If you like popping the CDs into the player, get an inexpensive DVD player with digital outputs, Sony has one for $35. Buy a DAC that you like, Emotiva has some good price performance options. The tech on DACs is rendering the differences between them so subtle for the mid range models, reports are that it is hard if not impossible to tell them apart. MAC also has a digital pre-amp worth a look for $$$. Then run you DAC analog outputs to your amplification system. If your DAC accepts multiple inputs aka digital pre-amp, you can also run a PC and other devices into it. I usually have a few hundred CDs that are new that I listen to on the DVD player until I rip them to the NAS hard disk for playback from any device in the house. The CDs go into bins as a backup. I'll start ripping my vinyl when the temps drop a little bit more. Hope this helps.....

It was a pleasure meeting everyone, and listening to the gear and music. Special thanks to our Host and his family for having us and rolling out the red carpet. If not for the economy of living area in my home design, I would gladly host one of these. Perhaps speakers in the windows, burgers on the grill, kegs in the yard, co-eds dancing on the tables and cars and lots of police...... the good old days......... In Naperville, business is so slow, we would probably get the SWAT team......wonder what the boys party to..... Seth, again thanks to you and your very nice family.

The Heritage speakers definitely have a different sound, since it's the one I've been listeing to for more than 30 years, it's the one I prefer. May be just a matter of expectations. The EL 34s designed for audio are supposed to have their own signature, I will be interested to listen to the amp. Female singer with a piano or orchestra is best for me when evaluating systems. Ronstadt Skylark is a good tune, though not the only one for the purpose. Noemie Wolfs (Hooverphonic) early moring Promo tour in the Netherlands https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Bs09twUmg&list=PLgugWBANrQyU39SWyIM6sCIJWo-A3GBlD&index=6

Naperville, I'm following. Good to see fellow enthusiasts on occasion.

Looking for a pair of B-3s Original boxes a giant plus. Thanks in advance!

Newegg is running a 60% off sale on Synergy speakers until 10-28. I own some of these and I am satisfied with them. I have no affiliation with this vendor.

Try Deltronics, they have done a lot of work for me. If they don't get it all on the first shot, they stand behind their work, which is more important in the long run. Woodridge and Chicago

Update Dec 15, 2012 Picked up the Mac 2205 Amp and the Pioneer VSX TX-09 at the shop last night. Deltronics in Chicago, actually the nearby Woodridge location. 2205 went in the rack and works flawlessly, a bit edgy but that is the 2205. This AM moved the speaker cables from the 2205 to VSX and ran the coax connection from the Sony cheapo CD player into the digital in on the Pioneer. This was a huge mistake, since all thoughts of selling this sweet sounding AB amp just went out the window. The worst part is I am going to have to back out on selling it to a neighbor for $350. Looks like the 2 large caps on the power supply and the speaker relay were replaced. The construction quality is the same as the mac stuff with Faraday cages for the internal components, 4 of them and lots of copper on the rfi enclosure for the system. Why did I plug it in? This makes it 6 receivers, 5 Yamaha mx amps, and a mac stack and a daughter who just fell in love with Vinyl records when I hooked up the old Dual 604 turntable, which according to the tech who tuned it up, my ears and the dual bank spectrum analyzer in my rack tracks dead on. Tech volunteered that the German unit tracks better that the $3000 TTs he gets in the shop "don't sell it ever". I feel at least one more 6 foot equipment rack headed for the Living Room.

The Pioneer Elite VS 09-TX was making a noise on shut off that was audible on speakers, took it to shop. Power supply requires repairs, power relay shot etc... this may be the source of the problem. Replaced it with my McIntosh MC-2205 amp, couple of weeks later noise at shut off, just got off the phone with the same shop, some caps leaking etc, DC leak etc. Now onto 3rd amp, Yamaha MX-600 that I picked up cheap a year ago, also making some noise at shut off. I'm running out of amp that are not in the shop at this point. However, booming bass not present on Mac or Yamaha

Thanks for the responses. Already answered but I'll restate: Bottoms are screwed on, lots of screws and yes install by hand or they will run through the wood. Gasket on bottoms appeared good the one time I inspected them (2 years ago), woofers appeared to be in good shape looking at them aka no holes or deformations. The Cavity is tight, so taking the woofers in and out is probably a pain and presents an opportunity to damage them. The cabinets are quite heavy, so this provides lots of pressure for the seal, but yes it could leak. Trouble shooting: I took the Pioneer Receiver out of the signal path and am now running the speakers off of my same year 1980 McIntosh equipment, I also connected a 1975 Dual turntable just back from refirb at the shop and tracking perfectly according to my spectrum analyzer EQ. On LPs the booming is reduced substantially perhaps because no one was driving the Hz freq on LPs in the 1970s. I took the RCA leads directly from the DVD player playing Delerium Karma track 1, the sound is flatter but less booming $3 DAC. Later today I will take my Emotive XDA 1 DAC which has a top 4 chip set in it and place it in the signal path and retest for booming sound. The Mac gear has been sitting in its boxes since it was factory refirbed a few years ago so it is definitely in spec and sounds like it on LPs, perfect. They did However not catch the Analog meter that is still not working on the 2205 amp, all switches and dials and sound are otherwise perfect. Once all of the electronics have been replaced and the good DAC is in place I will test again. The crossovers are due for a rebuild, so that may be the next step is to ship them to Crites for refirb and test, then go from there. PS how do you post pictures on here, very not obvious.

I'll hook up a Class A integrated amp to the speakers in the AM and see if the problem persists.

Cleaning sounds like a good idea, certainly a low cost start. Was thinking of pulling the crossovers and sending them to Crites for refirb and replacing the horn gaskets. Hopefully no dead rats hiding in the vents, but I'll look. thanks PS the old Altec 820 had just been completely disassebmled, refirbed and reassembled.

Greetings, Don't know if its the music I am listening to lately, Delerium Karma etc, but the bass on my 1979 LaScalas sounds loose and booming for lack of a better description. Speakers are stock origingal and currenly driven off of my old but loved Pioneer Elite VS 09-Tx vintage 5.1 AB receiver running in 2 ch. Low res on you tube, still smokes on percussion I have my Mac Stack C-32 and MC 2205 out of the Mac crates and am racking them as I type, well almost as I type. I am running the Elite on direct so its direct from the 24bit DAC to the amp section bypassing all the tech. With good headphones detail surpasses what is comming out of the LaScalas I recently listened to the same music on some Vintage Altec 820C dual 15" corner cabinits 50-16.5K. bass was far more detailed and complex and satisfying. The horns on the 803 drive down to 800Hz. The female voice resolution and quality sounds better on the LaScalas but that may just be the amp and CD player the owner had hooked up. He told me on tubes the sound was so much smoother. I already posted all the pics and cut sheets on the Audio Karma pages if you scroll down. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=476108 Honestly, I might have swaped him for my LaScalas if not for the extra $14K that would have been required. Any thoughs on booming LaScalas and mid bass resolution? My thoughts are turning towards Selinium drivers and horns. This is the baskettball size driver, so I may have to go down a bit in size and power. 112 db 1WM http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-230.pdf http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-329 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-230 And some kind of bass bins that are high res or a dual front firing 15 inch vented cab. Open for discussion, my faith has been shaken or do the crossovers just need a recap?

Quiet, Looks like we have the same La Scalas. I listened to everything inc movies in 2 Ch for years out of the McIntosh and was very content. I wanted to experience 5.1 and purchased the TOTL Synergy speakers 70% off at the end of life sale. The B3s are stacked on top of the LaScalas, C3 under the TV, and the S3s on the bookshelves behind me. When a movie is mastered properly, and a good recording quality, the 5.1 rocks. When I am listening to just music, I have done multiple AB tests, and the LaScalas always come out on top. You can probably get your hands on 5 B3s for not too much money used, and set up a similar stacked system. I'm currently trying to decide if I purchase 2 racks for the sides of the TV or build a 7 foot, 3 shelf open shelf stand for the amps etc. Whether I go vertical, or horizontal, I will end up with two complete, discrete stacked systems that are application specific. In the end, I will be bypassing the class D amp stage of the Pioneer Elite, and pre-amping the surround speakers into Class A AB Yamaha MX-800s, 3 of them. This should eliminate the irritating Class D bee buzzing sound of the internal AD-DA amplification process. If I'm not careful, it will also blow the B3s and the rest of the stuff apart literally as the magnets rip from the cones and drivers cook. But it's a chance worth taking. Judicious use of the gain controls on the Yamaha and the Mac equipment have kept my speakers healthy so far. If I did it again, I would pick off a good DTS Master surround processor with no internal Class D amps, Yuck. I may still do it and sell my Pioneer or use it as a boat anchor. Does anyone know of any good and inexpensive DTS master pre-amps? Emotiva?

With the Heresy's, 2 watts is screaming, Heritage stuff was designed with tubes in mind. Whatever you decide on for a pre-amp, be sure to get one that will allow you to use more than one amp. A speaker selector switch can be set up to move the speakers between two amps or you could play with 2 sets of speakers at some point in the future. BR LR. This will let you experiment with amps for different music, tube rolling and AB comparisons etc. Just checked the Klipsch web site, $850 list for Heresy 3s per speaker, and they support bi-amping. I've never looked into to it, but bi-amping with 2 40 watt class A tube amps might be cool after starting out with just one. Yaquin has some deals in the 40 watt range, but I understand the EL34s are too syrupy. Haven't listened to any of them, so its hearsay on my part. Good luck on whatever you decide. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx If at some point in the future, you decide to go 5.1, it can be done with 5 Heresy's; and a sub for movie sound effects. 5.1 bi amp center and fronts with heresys with 3x 40 w valve, rears with one amp. Used surround pre-amp that support DTS Master shouldn't be too much.

If I had the room, I would run LaScalas as fronts and heresy's as the sides and rears. Until I do, its a Synergy 5.1 system with the fronts sitting on top of the LaScalas, which are going to be run off of my Mac gear. IMHO DTS Master is the best I have heard, and it comes on DVDs and Blu-Rays, which also solves the problem of staring at a blank wall. What I discovered while recovering from an injury, was that running the DTS into the Elite and sending it out to just the 2 ch fronts was the best of both worlds. Sounds like rear channels are stripped, center is divided and sent to the fronts, sound is wonderful. The TOTL Synergy stuff just can't punch with the LaScalas My vote is for DTS Master 5.1... Stereo

What is high fidelity? I had a friend who was looking at upgrading and wanted to hear my stereo. We worked our way up from old CD, remastered CD, Synergy B3 surrounds etc, all the time staying with the same artists. I asked him where the artist was, over there, distant, close by, singing to you, sitting on your lap etc? When we finally arrived at Sheryl Crow DTS Master; Rockin the Globe DVD, running through the La Scala's I thought he was going to try to mount the Plasma TV, she was singing to him sitting on his lap. This DVD is right after Lance Armstrong, Sting, Owen Wilson and I think Clapton, Crow is pumping out the emotion. A week later we picked off mint recapped, re-veneered Heresy 1s, he disconnected all of his other speakers and listens to the Heresy's exclusively, didn't even bother to hook up the sub 12 I sold him.

John, You may want to list out your other equipment, amp etc. The problem you are going to have is your ears are accustomed to full range speakers. I have listened to the 83s and liked them, IMHO they are designed to be part of a 5.1 set with a sub though. For 2 channel listening, 3 ways with a 12 inch or larger woofer are hard to beat. I strongly encourage you to consider a pair of Heresy's, 2s in mint condition can be had for $500 and 3s mint for $1000 or new for 1800. Mount them on some end tables in the corners of the room or just to the side of your big screen TV on tables. Also since the speakers are highly efficient, you can move to a class A amp and get a sweeter sound if you don't have one already.

Just loaded it on my PC, tried Poe: Fly Away....one girl one piano Impresssive sound Update: Just spent an hour hunting and pecking though various artists, who don't sound like the artist I they linked to. Good service quality, lots of selections. I do miss my smooth jazz station and the collective decades of experience in hunting and pecking the various personalities bring to their shows. Radio will remain my primary source of finding new artists and movie soundtracks.

Dave, As to the optical interface in stereo gear, I have never studied it. The receiver has to derive the clock from the signal. I assume the signal and the clock are one way only simplex and not duplex, unless there is some need to lock the clocks for buffering or flow control which seems beyond the needs of stereo. Like data protocols, is there framing for the data bits and is the timing derived from the timing bits in the protocol? How robust is the protocol? Also, is the signaling binary or do they get cute on optical? I hadn't given it a lot of thought. Once the receiver derives the clock, so it knows where and when to look, its a matter of feeding the decoder at the speed it wants, so as a design issue, I don't know if the DAC guys put the data buffering in the receiver chips-set or the DAC chip-set to address any clock drift or over-speed issues. I would do both, but I'm not a stereo designer. My comments were based on optical isolation, letting the receiver's DAC decode and generate analog, and the age of the optical protocol whatever it is. If there are inferior optical driver chip sets that cause too much drift or can't handle drift that would be disappointing considering that age of the technology. For reference, I should have said, get any TOTL Blue Ray player ($100), since these are made in million unit quantities and you probably are on safe ground with the optical part. I have read comments about people hearing phase jitter, but have no idea what they are talking about. Bad DAC design?

To answer your question: The best CD player in the world is the cheapest one with an optical interface to your DAC which in this case is your surround receiver. My ears tell me the surround receivers EQ and DSPs are tweaked for their specific class D amps to clean up or mask any deficiencies class D vs class A. Take the receiver's EQ and DSPs out of the equation by using the most direct mode you have aka source direct, or pcm direct or whatever they call it. This bypasses all of the circuits and goes straight to the pre-amp. Simplest approach as stated above. It sounds like you are already going directly from your pre-amp into Emotive class A, AB amps. I haven't compared Emotiva Amps to Yamaha's or Macs class As, but there would be nowhere to go but down IMHO. The patch cords between your receiver and amp are important, so gold plated ends and O free copper, shielded are important. You can't have too much damping in a room, particularly with a cement floor and walls, I would also get the speakers off of the floor so they don't dry rot, if they are near the cement they are wicking. Also keeping the room dry with a de-humidifier is critical if you love your gear. Thick rugs and pads on cement are a must, something heavy on the back wall like a hanging carpet, or velor or foam backed curtains like a theater. Hope this helps