Trooper

"XX watts per channel at 8 ohms, 20-20,000Hz, 0.25%THD, both channels driven" That's basically the format that the FTC now REQUIRES of all audio amplifier/receiver manufacturers but almost no one plays by the rules. The list of offenders is much longer than the list of non-offenders. I suspect, but don't know for sure, that HK receiver power specs may be legit which would explain why they are lower than most similarly priced receivers. This may also be one tangible benefit of buying a THX receiver because part of the THX spec requires an all outputs driven specfication (the manufacturer may not quote it as such but THX does measure it).

Yea, RF-7. You get a glimpse of it in the preview I've seen on TV too. It's right behind Jennifer Garner in her boyfriend's apartment.

There are 2 different Samsung/Klipsch HTIBs. One with Quintets and a KSW sub and the other with, essentially, a ProMedia 5.1 set of speakers. I know at least one person with the second system and he loves it - and the price was right. Of course most people will just use the internal DVD player and never have the potential to experience the described problem - if it does even exist. I guess you'd have to be running your digital cable box or satellite receiver through it to have that potential issue.

IndyKlipsch, I recently purchased a set of 4 seats by Coja Leather from Direct Plus here in Indy. I got the red pseudo-suede (looks good and is spill resistant). You can look here for some of their styles: http://www.coja.com/products.asp?productID=10

Whoa! If I understand your last post correctly that changes everything. So you're leaving the passive stock crossovers in the speaker? If so, then the active crossover definitely buys you nothing. As long as you take out the metal strips (or wires) between the woofer and tweeter inputs on the input cup and wire a separate amp to each set you've got what you want. Adding the active crossover will not cause the amps to "work" any less. The detailed explanation as to why may be too complicated but here goes a try... Above the woofers' crossover point the impedance keeps increasing way past the average 8 ohms (into the tens or hundreds of ohms). As this impedance increases with increasing frequency the amp is required to "work" less and less - enough as to be insignificant. Same goes for the tweeter.

I'd say given the nature of the speaker drivers (metal) it's much more likely that there are potentially nasty resonant peaks at the higher end of each driver's response. Thus, the tweeter likely has a peak you'll need to address and the woofer probably has one an octave or so above it's pass band that should be addressed (even though it will already be rolled of somewhat by the crossover). Back to the big picture...real speaker crossovers are not "cookbook" style filters. For example, even though the crossover for the RF-7 is listed as 2200Hz that doesn't necessarily (in fact it's not likely) that the HP for the tweeter and the LP for the woofer are actually at 2200Hz. There may be some overlap or actually a space between the two points - whatever it takes to make a flat ACOUSTICAL response when both drivers are operating. Also, the Q of each filter is unlikely to be the standard 0.7. Basically, unless your active crossover allows you to set the LP and HP independently, with control of order and Q AND you know what they should be or have a way to measure the acoustical response you will most likely not help anything. Sorry, but speakers are more complicated than most anyone knows and you can't just jump in, set the crossover to 2200Hz and be done.

---------------- ... BTW, we now know that a tube amplifier can deliver about 5 times more current (voltage?) than a solid-state amplifier, making low powered tube amplifiers sound better than their low wattage would indicate…. ---------------- Huh!?! The laws of physics prevent anything like that from happening. Now if you'd said 5 times more distortion I'd be with you.

IMO, Most of the people recommending a high current amplifier don't really know what they're talking about. But it's a long running audiophile necessity. As you can see from all of the equations presented by others above every amplifier that outputs 100W into 8 ohms is putting the same amount of current into that 8 ohm load (I=sqrt(100W/8 ohms) = 3.53A). This of course assumes amplifiers output the power that the manufacturer claims which is another story. What people typically mean by "high-current" is one of 2 things: 1. The amp can maintain it's output power into multiple channels simultaneously. For example to do 2 channels @ 100W requires 7.06A from the power supply. For 5 channels; 17.65A, etc. Some amps do 1 or 2 channels just fine then fall on their face - meaning maybe 70W into 5 channels (I think this is where HK gets there ratings and where people like Sony lie). The reason the power output drops is because the power supply can't supply enough current. 2. The amp can double its power into 4 ohms. An amp with sufficient current available will double (or nearly double) power into 4 ohms vs. its 8 ohm rating. This is beacuse the VOLTAGE required to make 100W @ 8 ohms and 200W @ 4 ohms is the same. The CURRENT required doubles. (Remember Voltage * Current = Power) Engineering-wise a "high-current" amp has 2 main characteristics: Low output impedence (which all modern solid state amps have) and a power supply capable of supplying the necessary current.

---------------- On 3/25/2004 1:10:50 AM wheelman wrote: I think they have top notch cd players and thats what were hearing. Good in good out. ---------------- Whatever the difference is you're hearing it's not becasue they have some super-duper cd player. Bullet-proof CD players, yes - special audio-wise, no.

Really? FM radio sounds better?!? Must be the limited frequency response it has - 20Hz-15kHz at best, the incredible amount of dynamic range compression they use resulting in only 6-12dB of dynmaic range (the joke in the industry is if the signal level needles move the engineer gets fired!) or the previously mentioned EQ to give everything a little more bass and treble than it originally had. All of this seems to go against the "Audiophile Code" but whatever floats your boat. Maybe you're listening to the local PBS/NPR station in which case the compression and EQ may not be applied.

Klipsch THX Ultra2 speakers. Should be out very soon.

IndyKlipschFan will agree, the Aragon Stage One processor mated with an Aragon amp is dead silent (when it's supposed to be). It was developed and tested with Klipsch speakers after all.

Frankie - go ahead and try the Ref Sats with your PM 2.1. The impedance won't be a problem. As far as clipping, etc. there's a simple solution. If you crank it up enough that you hear a lot of distortion just turn it down a little. Preventing damage to speakers is as easy as using your ears.

rphjls is correct - KSWs are now available through Best Buy.

I've heard the HT-SK5 in a real listening room (as opposed to just on the shelf at the store) and it is quite impressive for it's modest size and cost. It blew away several similarly and higher priced competitors such as Sony, Bose, etc. A co-worker knows a couple of people that purchased this system and they love them.

Want to know the trick of doubling output power into a lower impedance? Build an amp that's actualy capable of 140W into 8 ohms, 240W into 4, 400W into 2 ohms. Now call it 100W into 8 ohms, 200W into 4 and 400W into 2. You can make almost any amp look good in this respect by just lowering the 8 ohm spec. The laws of physics prevent any amp from ACTUALLY doubling power output but marketing found a way around it. This isn't to say that these amps with good specs aren't well built, desirable, etc. but arguing about an amp's "goodness" based on this specmanship is silly if you know what's really going on.

What percentage of the product has to be made in China in order for it to be "bad"? All the pieces and final assembly or how about just the drivers and cossover? What if just a couple of capacitors are sourced from China? Just wondered what the threshold is.

I get the feeling not everyone realizes that the KES-6100 is a complete system - i.e. universal DVD player (DVD-Audio & SACD), 100W per channel amp, powered sub, 6 sats, etc. The THX Ultra2 system announced earlier is just speakers (with, of course, the powered sub).

Check out the Klipsch Newscenter for press releases concerning CES products. Several new things listed.

I saw all these in person at CEDIA and they're OK looking except for the volume "ring" - it's not a knob anymore. It's actually a hollow ring. Silver plastic on the outside and blue light on the inside. It might have seemed like a cool idea but in person, and on every model, it looked pretty cheesy, IMO.

I bought and tested the SOS unit. If it did what they claimed, it wouldn't be too bad of a deal. But using some very nice test equipment we found that 4 out of 5 times it applied EQ in the wrong place i.e. putting a parametric notch where there was already a suckout in the in-room repsonse. Clever implementation and package but doesn't do what it advertises.

---------------- The Sunfire power amps also represent a better value then the competition(I am not talking about the low cost BS here).The newest seven channel Signature amp can supply 400W into 8Ohms all channels driven!And doubles this into 4 Ohms there is not much competition,plus sound quality is up there too. ---------------- How many AC circuits does it take for the Sunfire to do this? 7*400W=2800W so even if it was 100% efficient (which it isn't) you can only get 1800W from a standard 15A house circuit (120v*15A=1800W). Even with a 20A circuit breaker you're limited to 2400W (120v*20A=2400W). Does the amp need to be connected to a 230v, 20A circuit to meet that spec? Ole Bob Carver is good but even he must obey the laws of physics.

I think some "Indy-trip" attendees might also recommend the Aragon 2005, 2007 or 3005. I believe one of the demo rooms used the 3005 with a full RF7 system. I use the 2005 & 2002 with mine.

Yeah - it doesn't play HD DVDs just "interpolates" more lines for your HDTV display from standard DVDs. I believe it uses the latest Faroudja chipset.

---------------- On 7/17/2003 9:16:25 PM Marshal wrote: http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=90122562&loc=111 Does anyone have this? Does it live up to its billing? ---------------- One "catch" to that player is that your HDTV must have a DVI input and DHCP(or something like that) digital copy protection license for the 720p or 1080i output to work. Otherwise you only get standard 480p out of the component output.