Yesfan70

Boy, I know how some of you feel about mismatched speakers. My first 7.1 system comprised of: Klispch KG5.5 for the front L&R Klipsch KV-2 for the center pair of Yamaha bookshelfs (pretty big for bookshelfs...3-ways that had 12s in them) for the side surrounds pair of Realistic speakers that were simliar to the Yammies. Talk about a Heinz 57 assortment of speakers . I got tired of them after a few months and went back to 5.1. Fast forward years later to the present and I too have an all Klipsch setup. KG5.5s for the front L&R and side surrounds. A KG4.5 "bookshelf" for the center and a pair of KG2.5 for the back surrounds. A world of difference.

I noticed the dB column is in negative values. How "loud" is -120dB or -112dB in relation to the dB reading we see on a SPL meter? A reading of 50dB is very low compared to say 75dB (the "standard" for calibrating speaker levels) or 120dB for a typical rock concert. As far as DVD vs CD. I like my CD changer better, not because of sound quality, but because disc to disc changes seem to be faster with CD only changers compared to DVD changer. They only have to read one type of disc, the CD. I did consider buying a DVD changer at one time, but settled for my Denon 2200 since it could also play SACDs.

I have always wondered how my KG speakers would fair against the Heritage stuff. I figured it would be close (have not heard the Heritage line...yet), but when I first heard the Reference line, I gave up. I don't think they sound good enough for me to give up my KGs, but still better none the less. And then I see where some of you have no problem saying the Reference line doesn't compare to the Heritage. I guess that's end of story for me. Maybe the KGs ain't so close after all, but I would still love to hear an all Heritage outfit. I love the sound of the Reference line, so now I'm really intrigued to hear what the Heritage line has to offer. Considering Klipsch has been making them since the 50s, they have to be pretty damn good. That's a hell of a long run for any speaker.

As far as SACDs go, I like Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon the best. DVD concerts: The Allman Brothers Band- Live at the Beacon Theater is very very good as is David Gilmour- Live in Concert. Those two are probably my favorites.

---------------- On 6/27/2005 3:55:22 PM shane_0_mac wrote: $590 each that is awesome! I wish there was a goodguys around here. ---------------- Yeah, no sh-t. That kinda price would make me consider getting rid of my KG setup for RF-7s. Sweet deal!

---------------- On 6/24/2005 10:19:07 AM jlukins wrote: Yesfan, what about sheilding. The KV-2 and 3 are magnetically sheilded. If you put a kg2.5 on top of a tv you start to run into problems with interference, right? ---------------- I don't think that would be too much of a problem if you are using a RPTV as opposed to a direct view set like a 27" to 32" size television. The CRT guns will be midway, center and toward the bottom of a RPTV's cabinet. I have a Pioneer 60"er, and I have had my KG5.5 almost right against it and had no problems. If piece of mind is a concern, you could always try to get the KG2.5V. It is the same speaker, but video sheilded.

1)The Sunfire should have its own built in power amp. I'm guessing it is a powered sub like most of today's subs are, so the only thing you should have to do is connect its RCA input to the Denon's RCA Sub output jacks. Then just connect the rest of the channels of the Denon to the Sunfire amp. L-L, R-R, C-C, and so on. 2)If you are using the sub to cover the low end of the center speaker, then just put it between the Denon and Sunfire amp. Connect the Denon's center output to the sub's input on the Sunfire sub, then from the sub's output to the Sunfire amp's center channel input. Then select "large" for the center speaker in your Denon's bass management and adjust the crossover on the sub to the desired point. All the frequencies above the crossover point of the sub should be passed on to the Sunfire amp and then on to your center channel speaker. I would only do this if your Sunfire sub is a second sub. If it is the only sub in your system, then connect it to your receiver's sub output. Hope this helps.

I think the KG2.5 would be great since they are fairly cheap to get from places like Ebay. That, or what about some bookshelfs from the Synergy line? They should be fairly inexpensive and they would be new. You mentioned a movies only role for the surrounds, so I figured this would be a good option as well.

For the matching center, I would go for the KG2.5. If you are tight on space I would use another pair for the surrounds in a 5.1 rig. The KG2.5 also has a lower frequency limit (50Hz compared to 75Hz for the KV-2), which will also let you go with a lower crossover setting for your sub. I have to disagree about the KV-2. I don't think they are a good match for the KG5.5s, at least that's what my ears tell me. I used a KV-2 for years as my center, but felt it was lacking. After replacing an old pair of Yamaha speakers I was using for the surrounds with another pair of KG5.5s, the KV-2 really stuck out like a sore thumb. I would go for the KG2.5s or build your own custom center like STL and me have done with our systems.

I have been reading that the use of two back surround speakers for 7.1 will give better results than a single back surround for 6.1. Supposedly, the way our ears are oriented, a single back surround speaker will give you the illusion that sound is coming from within your head instead of behind your head as with a pair of back surrounds. I have a 6.1 setup now, but I do have a pair of matching bookshelfs that I have thought about hooking up and seeing...er, I meant hearing....for myself to see if there is a difference. Just hadn't gotten around to hooking it up. I have also read that bumping the main L&R surrounds up by 2-3dB will give you the same effect (if in a small room) as having 7.1. I haven't tried this myself, but figured it might be worth mentioning in case someone wanted to give it a go.

I was going to suggest the same thing as Frzninvt. Right now, I'm still using a KG2.5 bookshelf as a center match for my KG5.5 towers until my custom center is finished (all I like is veneering it). I had used a KV-2 and pretty much felt the way you did about your RC-7. The KV-2 stuck out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of my speakers. I think the Heritage is from the same line as the K-horn, LaScallas and Belles, so (going on a hunch) that should work perfectly. After a little reading and asking around, I toed in my speakers where they were aimed at the listening position and ran the system "no center" (after recalibrating speaker levels, be sure to do this) for a while to see how I liked it. Much better. I popped in the AVIA test DVD and ran the swirling pink noise and compared the system with/without the KV-2. No contest. When I close my eyes, I couldn't tell which speaker was playing the "swirling ball", but I could clearly tell where in the soundfield it was. Before, I could actually hear when the KV-2 would fade in/out when the ball was moving along the front three speakers. So then I tried some demo material. I popped in The Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring. If you have this disc, particulaly the EE version, play "Balin's Tomb" (the infamous cave troll scene). I listened to the dialog among the characters. It was very clear and intelligable compared to before. Even the clinging of Gimli's sword as he ran into the great hall was more distinct as compared to the center channel playing that info. To me, the center speaker is not the most important speaker. It is the least crucial. I think what's the most important actually is how the center channel information is presented by the system. This is what I have learned from my experience and listening to what others have tried. If I had to put it in order, then I would say the most important is: 1) three identical, or timbre matched speakers. 2) A phantom center 3) a mismatched center. That's just me though. Some will disagree, some agree. If I were going to buy a whole new system, I would get the stereo right first (as was said earlier in this thread) if I didn't have the funds for getting the front three right off the bat. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the comments. No particlar reason on why I went with a vertical style. I have read where there are lobing issues with drivers in a horizontal lay out, as compared to the typical vertical oriented array in a bookshelf and tower. I did try my KV-2 standing on it's end compared to the how it's supposed to be setup up and could tell a little bit of difference, not too much though. Thanks for the link colterphoto. I'll check them out.

Hey all, I thought I would post a link to some pics of my custom center. I have glued and painted part of the enclosure and used the parts from one of my KG4.5s, so the pics I have now are more or less "dry fit" pics to see what it is going to look like. Here's the link: http://community.webshots.com/album/367101249xeZTfd I know it might not look as good as some of you seasoned woodworkers' speakers out there, but doesn't look too bad for a first timer. All that's left to do is veneer the top, bottom and side panels. I used Rustoleum's textured black spray paint for the front panel and a Krylon's semi-flat black for the back panels. Looks pretty good. I have emailed GL Veneers for some pricing info on their oak veneer, but no replies so far. If any of you all have any ideas on what kind to get and/or if you know a better source, I'm all ears. I have thought about Minwax for the finish. Watco has been recommended, but I haven't seen anything from my local HD. I'm going to try Lowe's within the next couple of weeks to see if they carry it. I'll have more pics later.

How would you compare the 5.5s to the 3.5s? Just curious as to see what your thoughts were.

The crossovers in my KG5.5s were made in Mexico. BTW P&S, You mentioned owning Digital Phase speakers. Is that the same speakers made in Chattanooga, TN? Just curious since I leave about 30 miles N of Chattanooga.

Cool. I would also like to see what your thoughts are on how the 3.5s compare to the 5.5s. I have the 5.5s as mains and surrounds and use a KG2.5 for the center. Even though the tweeter is slightly different and the woofers are smaller, I'm surprised how close to timbre they are to my 5.5s.

My bad. I misunderstood you. I thought you were deciding which ones to keep. I do like Wjaco's suggestion. The SS-1s would give you a more enveloping surround field, especially if your room is fairly big, compared to the KG3.5s. This would probably be better if your system setup is more movies than 5.1 music. On the other hand, I would probably use the KG3.5s for the L&R surrounds, and use the SS-1s for the back surround channels. I think this would be a better setup, if 5.1 surround music (DVD-A and SACD) are going to be a big priority in your setup. The KG3.5 will be closer to timbre with the 5.5s. The only downside I can think of to this would be the SS-1s might be "too much" for the back surround channels if your room is pretty narrow. Just some thoughts. I have read in HT Mag (a few years back) where they have tried different types of surrounds in a 7.1 rig. Some liked all direct radiators, some all dipoles, and some a mixture of both. I guess what it bowls down to is what works best for you.

You could use both. Some recievers, particularly the Denons, will have an "A/B" switch for this. One pair of surrounds for 5.1 music, another for 5.1 movies. For me though, I just keep one pair of surrounds. It is more convenient. You don't have to worry about hooking up/routing another pair of wires and there's one less pair of speakers taking up floorspace. That's just a preference on my part.

Thirdeye, You got mail. Check you PM bud.

---------------- On 6/2/2005 11:05:47 PM MrMcGoo wrote: Pink noise exercises the speakers over their full bandwidth, 20 Hz to 20 kHz. Your movie DVDs are mixed with speakers set with pink noise. Pink noise should be used with capable speakers like big floorstanders. Engage the crossover, but turn the subwoofer off while setting levels. Be sure to turn the sub on again afterward....... ---------------- The AVIA disc does have a 5 speaker pan optional with a 150Hz HP option. This should eliminate the necessity of having to turn the sub on/off when setting the main channel levels.

I agree with Olorin. I think you are better off by going with the same product line as your mains. The most important is having the front three timbre-matched, followed by the surrounds. A good example of this is the Klipsch KG5.5 and KLF-10. They look identical, but sound nothing alike (at least to me). Same with the Synergy and Reference lines. To me they are also night and day.

I would try the following and see what results you get: 1) cut the mains volume another dB or two. Maybe even try the compression (usually labeled "Midnight mode" or something similiar) feature in your receiver's menu. This will boost lower volumes (like whispers) and cut the louder volumes (like explosions). 2) Put the center speaker (if possible) in a vertical position. I have read where there are lobing issues with many centers due to the MTM array being horizontally opposed instead of being vertical like ordinary towers and bookshelfs. The horizontal configuration of center speakers is mainly a compromise since they are usually placed above or below a TV's screen. 3) run without a center speaker. See how your system sounds with the mains doing center channel dialog as compared to the center doing it. Be sure to have your L&R mains toed in toward the sweet spot to get the best performance. If you feel it sounds better, than maybe just go with a bigger center speaker. I would make this a last resort though (after you have tried acoustic treatments etc. as the others have mentioned) since it will be the most expensive. Hope this helps.

I used quilt batting for my KG5.5s. They seemed to hit lower, but the improvement I heard was a better more detailed midrange and treble. Just make sure (if your speakers are ported) that there is a clear path or channel to the port and it's not blocked in anyway so the speaker can still "breathe". I would try it without any damping material first. See what it sounds like without any kind of damping, then add your material and see what results you get. The best thing is you could always put back the original material if you hear no improvements of any kind.

I have a question. When I was looking around the GL Veneer website, I noticed they had products under "veneer" and one under "10 mil". What is the difference? Is the 10 mil the raw veneer and if so, is it pretty thick? I'm guessing it's probably 3/8" thick (or 10 mm). Any ideas on what type of finish/shade Klipsch used for their "medium oak finish"? I would like my center speaker to match my mains as much as possible.

I like Denon. I have had great luck with them in the past. Marantz would be another one. Actually, I have been reading that Marantz and NAD are probably better suited since some consider them warmer sounding than Denon (haven't compared the three). For the surrounds, I would keep all of them the same since your room is 15x17. I'm sure 4 RB-25s (if you are going for a 7.1 setup) could fill it with sound. Both the RS and RB speakers list for the same price, so you could always try both out to see which works best for you. Sounds like a great setup. I do love the Reference speakers.