Klipsch THX ultra 2 or RF 83 system

[RickZler]

Viggie:

This above all else is a very personal choice. But just my opinion I would take the 6 to 8 grand you saved on the THX-Ultra2 set up and buy a very good receiver to power your new Ref 8 set up. Like I said it is very personal choice but if you indeed like the sound of Onyko why not set up to the Integra line and listen to the Integra DTR 9.9 receiver. It cost about $2000- $2200 and has settings to not only tweak each channel but each device on that channel. I demo one and liked the sound especially for H.T. I decided on Denon AVR-5308CI and love the sound with the Klipsch. The thing about Klipsch speakers is they're very unforgiving to sub-par equiptment and cabling. The Denon runs very clean and has excellent response for both H.T. and SAC listening. You can probably pick one up in the neighborhood of $5,000 and be set for a long while. But like I said it all depends on your listening habits music or movies. If I was you and I couldn't swing the Denon I'd look at the brand new ROTEL -RSX-1560. It won the best value award at CES 2009 and I personally heard it on Ref-83 and it sounded awesome. I really think this would be a good choice for you. It has 4 HDMI 1.3 inputs and supports all the lastest codecs including deep color and true D.T.S. And it uses the faroudja video processor so you can send video thru H.D.M.I without worry. Just some thoughts but don't be afraid to demo multiply units. Many dealers let you demo receivers for 30 days and you can return them and try something else until you hear something you like. Trust me you'll know. A lot of folks here will try to make you demo seperates. You can also do that but after a certain price range around 2500-2800 hundred I can't tell the difference and the new receivers all come with room adjusting dynamic parameters that do the work for you. But like I said before demo demo demo.It is very personal.

RickZler

[IndyKlipschFan]

Good points Rick.

The Sunfire is just sooo awesome with Klipsch, if they had all the codecs in the pre amp and if it was THX Ultra 2 certified, it would easily be one of those top 5 must have for HT too. (OK, I am biased a little here, but I also demo'ed a lot of good gear as well.) I agree, if you have a very cheaply made Pre Amp, or Amp, it will show in Klipsch speakers for sure. So get a good name with good specs that is above most, and you will be rewarded. The Sunfire from a amp option is very dynamic and will run all out to just about anyones loudness levels, all day / all night, and be just fine. My wish for them (Sunfire) is to get on the additional codecs boat in the pre amp section. (You can always let the Blue Ray Player do this at the player level too of course with analog outs!)

There are a lot of people who like the Integra gear in here, but some claim the 2 channel is not quite as good. I have not heard it yet myself. Lord knows it seems to have everything u might want! I would love to have someone here locally bring one over for a demo. Hint hint someone help me out!

That said, sometimes as much of this is a science, I want to stop and say it is also an art of getting the right gear for YOUR room. So some of it is luck, sometimes things on paper just do or do not work out in your situation too. Please remember that when you listen with your ears and not some guy selling you or upgrading you to that specialty gear must have!

Roger

		DHC-9.9 THX Ultra2 Plus, 7.1-Channel, 3-Zone Preamplifier/Processor Specifications and features subject to change without notice.

[viggnesh]

rick/indy..thanks a lot guys for ur input..i have already purchased the THX ultra 2 and i have ordered the sunfire TGR401 which should reach me any day..am from india and its very tough to get electronics here..but i got a good deal on these..i paid 12000 $ for 7.2 thx ultra 2 and sunfire TGR 401..i am jus worried if the sunfire would find it hard to drive the ultra 2 subs...am waiting for my receiver to find out..

also i found out that sunfire TGR401 does not upscale normal DVDs thro HDMI..so i am looking out for a very good blu ray player with DTS HD decoding and HQV chip or equivalent, which does a good job on the upconverting of DVDs...i have zeroed in on optoma HD 80 or sanyo z3000 for my projector..i have ordered Auralex pro plus roominator kit for acoustics...i am looking for a good AT screen..and am finished..

So please suggest on the Bluray/screen and help me in realising my dream of a good theater at home..thanks in advance

Vig

[Bill H.]

Somebody get that man a towel.............seems he jumped into the Audio Pool, and got really wet ! LOL..........Congrats to you.

Please Post some pics when you get setup ! Wow.

[viggnesh]

seriously bill...am dripping......just keep helping me out till i finish it guys..i can never thank u guys enough

[joebagadoughnuts]

Duplicate post. See below.

[joebagadoughnuts]

Good thread. I haven't visited in a long time. I thought I would share a few things that might be helpful.

It looks like you reached a good decision in your new dedicated theater. Fellow members offered thoughtful considerations. I'm sure that your designer had specific opinions about which speaker model would serve you best. They are very different designs, and their selection would require specific design approaches. The choice is very application and design dependent. I have lived with the Klipsch THX U2 system at home and in many of my designs for several years now. I know it well in everything from reference dedicated theaters to family media rooms. It is not only a superb performing line, it has exceptional placement/installation flexibility which is about performance flexibility as much as it is convenience. This has long been a goal that THX has encouraged in speaker system designs.

The 83s and similar floor standing models are excellent performers, but each type of speaker comes with its unique characteristics that may make it more suitable for one application than another. I find those a fine choice for designs/installations where they will be free-standing in the room. In professional cinema and dedicated home theater design, it is advantageous to minimize surprises, therefore the design and project execution follows certain approaches and protocols that achieve specific performance objectives. For dedicated theaters, the THX U2 line (especially the screen channel speakers) is a better choice for us because its design gives us the flexibility we need to utilize our installation techniques that permit us to achieve specific performance goals. Their footprint and forward-firing port are essential to how we design and construct. The large floor-standing models often have a rear port, which creates the need for a different approach than we prefer, therefore we stay clear of that unless it is a specific customer requirement.

Another thing that comes up with large floor standing models is the question of bass management. Two factors compete for consideration when placing LCR speakers. The creation of a good front stage of sound, and whether low frequency sound from a speaker in that location will be a benefit or detriment to low frequency response in the room. Low frequency response in small room acoustics is complicated enough with satellite/sub bass management. Using full-range speakers always complicates the task of verifying response and calibration, but can be done. Bass management can certainly be utilized effectively with towers. The problem is some folks are sure they are losing something. It is best to verify and apply as required.

Another thing that we take into consideration is the throw distance to the primary row, the size of the LCR speaker baffle and how the transducers are located. Presuming precise broadband localization of sound is a perfomance goal, this can be complicated a bit if large towers are used in short throw scenarios. This is one reason why big pro cinema stacks are not a great choice for normal home theater size rooms. In the case of both the towers and the pro stacks, if the room is big enough and the primary throw is long enough, none of those problems are noticable. My point is that the somewhat condensed tranducer design of the KL-650-THX is a benefit in this regard.

Regarding the size of the original poster's room, the THX U2 line would be very happy in that size room...and in rooms both smaller and larger than that. We had a recent project that was a dedicated room about that size. It was a particularly rewarding gig because the homeowner had rather demanding expectations (came to us through the THX web site), and involved us at the very earliest planning stages. The result was a reference theater that is an exceptional acoustic (and viewing) environment thanks to many factors including a low noise design and a custom acoustic treatment array designed to reach reverberation targets and a balance of broadband absorption and diffusion. The two row theater uses eleven speakers from the THX U2 line. All the speakers and the acoustic treatment array are concealed. If you would like to see images from it, I can provide a link to the web site.

Regarding pricing in this or any other time, I think there are creative ways for folks on both sides to approach this. The reference theater I described above was not a budget-is-no-object project. The homeowner made a two room addition to his home, and one room was the dedicated theater, so there was only so much money available to build out and equip the theater. He saved a lot of money by getting his hands dirty on weekends and/or seeking out competitive construction contractors. Once he had the design and continuing guidance, he could really knock out a lot of the less specialized work. A lot of the work in room with that level of performance expectation is specialized, but a lot is not. I'll admit it is not particularly easy to find providers who will work this way because so many companies just don't wish to take the time (I guess). If they have lots of overhead, they want to zoom on to the next gig. They rely on volume. If you can find a provider who will work with you (and really knows their stuff), you may find that they will be able to package what they are providing at a very attractive value. It should all be about three things: Lifestyle; expectations; and budget...the true essentials of "custom." The trick is finding providers that use that philosophy rather than volume retail sales.

Cheers []

[DU73]

just keep helping me out till i finish it guys..i can never thank u guys enough

we thank you,, generally speaking why cant all people be this polite and appreciative.. people here love this stuff, this is what they do.. this is a great site. Many good and helpful people. You dont even have to like audio to enjoy yourself here.

Sorry I can not contribute to your soon to be totally out of this world system as I don't know much about this stuff and I need these guys here to asist me all the time. I'm still trying to figure out how to connect my vcr to tv [:$]

Post pics when you can. I think clearly you are going to have the best home theatre in India.

Post pics if you can when things arrive.

Please dont be a stranger once all set up.. post lots... a green bar will follow []

[iwillwalk]

Somebody get that man a towel.............seems he jumped into the Audio Pool, and got really wet ! LOL..........Congrats to you.

Please Post some pics when you get setup ! Wow.

you had better invest in a stack of towels...i this is only your first tie getting wet, then soon you will be waterloged like the rest of us....we cant dry off. look at indy he still isnt dry

[IndyKlipschFan]

Look at the Sony 550 Blu Ray DVD player.. Analog out, for codecs (Sound formats) and it will upscale too. I think this is what your looking at, same as I was!

[viggnesh]

thanks a lot joe...i will get into the room acoustics hopefully by next week end...i have built the wall with 4.5 inch brick and then stuffed glass wool for 5mm and again built a 45.inch brick work on all the side walls....am planning to put a drop ceiling with plywood and treat the cieling, walls with auralex proplus kit..the floor will be wooded with a rug thrown in the half from the screen to the first row....

am looking at elite screens acoustic pro version..it is either available in 106 or 120 incher....any idea how these are..my room is 22 feet long by 15 feet wide with 9" cieling...if i put the center behind the screen, then i will have a 20 feet distance from the screen to the back wall...am buying an optoma HD 80 projector....can i set it up to throw 120 inches?? please share your thoughts..

Indy, thanks for the suggestion..it looks good...but i was bedating between pioneer elite, denon 3800BT, marantz THX blu ray player..are these way better than the sony??

Thanks in advance guys..cheers

[Youthman]

if i put the center behind the screen, then i will have a 20 feet distance from the screen to the back wall...am buying an optoma HD 80 projector....can i set it up to throw 120 inches?? please share your thoughts..

Take a look at the calculator pro on projectorcentral.com. Choose what format screen (16:9 or 2.35:1),change the size to 120" and you will see you will need to mount the projector between 16' 2" and 19' 4". Play with the parameters and it will give you a good idea of how you can set it up.

[tommyboy]

just keep helping me out till i finish it guys..i can never thank u guys enough

we thank you,, generally speaking why cant all people be this polite and appreciative.. people here love this stuff, this is what they do.. this is a great site. Many good and helpful people. You dont even have to like audio to enjoy yourself here.

Sorry I can not contribute to your soon to be totally out of this world system as I don't know much about this stuff and I need these guys here to asist me all the time. I'm still trying to figure out how to connect my vcr to tv

Post pics when you can. I think clearly you are going to have the best home theatre in India.

Post pics if you can when things arrive.

Please dont be a stranger once all set up.. post lots... a green bar will follow

I second what he said!!! [Y]

[viggnesh]

am sure will do..i will be very happy to post the pics alongside some of the best systems in the world on this forum

[Tomys]

Hi Guys, Please let's me in. I need help too..[:'(]

I've just bought THX 2, On the back of Sub Amp, there are 2 input conectors L & R for Pre Amp output. Now I've got Rotel RSP-1570. which has Sub 1 & 2 output conections. Question: Can I conect Sub1 to the L of Klipsch Sub Amp & Sub 2 to the R. Or I can only use Y Jack cable to conect Pre Amp Sub1 to L & R of KA-1000-THX Sub Amp ?

Secondly Is it sound better to Bi-Wire all speakers or it doesn't make any difference ? I've been reading a lots on the net, but still haven't come any conclusion..[:$]

I have 2 Amps: (for 7.1 set up) Rotel RMB-1575 & RB-1092 (still struggling how to set it up) very much appreciate for your help.

Many Thanksss

[joebagadoughnuts]

Hi there,

Good question about the KA-1000-THX amp. It is not clear in the owners manual, but despite the two inputs, the KA-1000-THX is a summing amp, therefore will not deliver two discrete sub signals. You only need to send it a signal to one input. The amp will sum this and send it to both subs. This is a bit unfortunate, because there is sometimes the need to place subs in locations where they are asymetrical to the central listening and calibration point. If the amp would send out two separate signals, then the two sub outputs of your AVR could be used to give you more installation flexibility.

The only hint of this in the owners manual is the fact that it is recommended that the two subs be located together. This is so that there is not a delay issue. The only way to sent two discrete sub signals is to add an additional amp. Not likely for most. []

Alas, not a perfect product in this respect, but I bet you'll still enjoy it. []

[Tomys]

Thankss joebagadoughnuts

[IndyKlipschFan]

From the klipsch website....

Where is the best place to put a subwoofer in my room?
It
is generally believed that the bass you hear below approximately 80 Hz
is non-directional. This means that you can point the loudspeaker in
any direction and the sound will still reach the listener's ears. Since
much of the bass that subwoofers produce is below that frequency, you
can place the subwoofer almost anywhere in the room. This is the
opposite of full-range speakers, which have just a few placement
options in a room that allow them to sound good, since they must be
positioned for the best combination of imaging and tonal balance.
Putting a subwoofer in a corner of the room may cause the sub to sound
louder. If your subwoofer is a ported design, keep it at least twice
the diameter of the port exit (probably 6-12 inches) away from the
nearest wall, so that air flowing out of the port is not obstructed. If
the bass seems too boomy, you can fine-tune the sub by moving it
farther from the wall until it sounds smooth to your ears.

The
best way to find the ideal place for your subwoofer is to hook it up
and put it right where you will be sitting in the room. Set the
subwoofer to level, low pass and phase. Play something with consistent,
deep bass and move around the room on your knees; this way your head is
about where it would be when you are seated. The spot where the bass
sounds best is a spot where you might put your subwoofer. You may find
more than one location.

Corner placement of the subwoofer
typically yields the loudest output (highest efficiency). This does not
mean that it will always sound best in this position; experimenting
with placement is always suggested. It's also important to have the
sound from the sub reach the listener in sync with the sound from the
main speakers; otherwise the sound may not blend properly. You should
not be able to hear your subwoofer as a separate entity—it should seem
that your main speakers go deeper with greater impact and authority.

Can I put more than one subwoofer in my room?
Sometimes,
adding a second subwoofer can smooth bass response throughout the room.
This is due to strong acoustic standing waves in the room which are
dependent on the basic room dimensions (height, length, and width) and
the placement of the sub and primary listening area. With a single sub,
it is possible to obtain strong bass at one spot, with very weak bass
elsewhere in the room. You can hear this by carefully listening to bass
as you move a few feet in any direction. If you have strong bass/weak
bass problems, using a second sub in a different location may reduce
the severity of the problem. The important thing to remember is to find
what sounds best to you! Each room is different; experiment until you
find the placement that produces the most pleasing bass to your ears.

Some
people feel they can never have enough bass. So long as they are placed
properly, multiple subwoofers typically produce more bass. It is
important to note that unless the second subwoofer goes deeper than the
first one, adding additional subwoofers will only raise the bass
volume—it will not produce deeper base. You’ll need to experiment with
different positions (as previously described) to find the best places
for two or more subwoofers. Some people use one subwoofer for a certain
frequency range and the second for another (such as the LFE channel in
5.1 recordings). Other options are to connect one subwoofer to the
front channels and one to the rear channels, or one to the center
channel and the other to the remaining channels.

[viggnesh]

Roger..how do u rate the JL audio Fathom f113?? will it work well with the klipsch THX subs inmy setup??am getting a great deal on that?? plz share ur thoughts

[DrWho]

Is space an issue in your setup? The F113 is more hype if you ask me unless you simply can't live with a larger subwoofer (in which case it's pretty much an only option).

Integrating it with your KW-120's will be difficult....ports have 180 degree phase rotation which likely isn't gonna line up with the phase rotation of the JL...you'll probably find yourself sacrificing lows or sacrificing highs. The JL also won't keep up with the SPL of the KW-120's either.

There is a point where it usually makes sense to go custom with the subwoofer....especially when you start getting into the higher dollar options. Dunno if you wanna go that route or not or what is even available in your area.