Rich's Plea

[oscarsear]

Here's an accounting of an ex-smoker. It is not for the squeamish. Some here have ridiculed the veracity of my anti-tobacco rants. I agree that I can get a little too heated about the subject. I tried to explain why but that too was ridiculed.

Now people can see for themselves why I hate tobacco. I am doing this not just to make my point but I am also doing it for Rich. This is what he wanted to do with his story.

Link to http://richsplea.synthasite.com/

[Speedball]

My younger brother makes me so mad that he won't quit smoking. Of course I hardly say much about it and he knows I don't go along with it. One of my employees at work is 73 and after 25+ years of smoking he quit cold turkey. Now that's one strong fellow.

How's that Accuphase gear working?

[oscarsear]

There's a web site called 'quitnet' that is a very active online support system for people quitting their various tobacco habits. I am quite please with the entire set up I am running. It is on for at least 8 hours per day and I do not tire of it in anyway. The Accuphase delivers in all respects.

[Fish]

Smokin'= bad.Alcholol has ruined as many lives as any vice ever devised by man,do a rant on it too.

[djk]

My uncle Vern quit smoking cold turkey at age 44. He had been a saleman for Ligget and Meyers (Lucky Stike, L&M, etc) for many years.

It was very cold the day of the funeral, and everyone remarked how young he was (44).

And to think we all called them 'coffin nails'.

[oscarsear]

Smokin'= bad.Alcholol has ruined as many lives as any vice ever devised by man,do a rant on it too.

Fish, an excellent point. The 2 vices are an interesting comparison. Tobacco is incredibly addicting, its intoxicating effects are quite subtle but the health consequences are extreme. Alcohol is also addicting but nowhere near as addictive as tobacco. Its acute intoxicating effects are far more pronounced than tobacco. The social ills and health consequences related to alcohol are comparable to tobacco. Both, of course are legal.

If alcohol were as addictive as tobacco it would be made illegal. Why? Because the acuity of its intoxication is far worse than tobacco. We all know people addicted to alcohol and when drunk (which is daily) they are a real problem. At most about 15% of alcohol users become addicts. Imagine if that were more than 90% like it is for tobacco. We would have drunks everywhere, all the time. Society would not tolerate that or it would not survive it. Tobacco addiction is tolerated in society because its drug effects are not generally disruptive. Still no product should be sold to the American consumer that is known to addict like tobacco does. The addiction takes away the choice to quit. So it is a vice that users cannot easily stop when they decide it is time to (for any reason). They are both bad choices but only one captures most of its users in a tolerance dependent addiction. Most people who consume alcohol can use the product safely and in moderation. Most people who use alcohol can stop using it when they want to. The same is not true for tobacco. Most users will need to consume more product to get the same effect and quitting tobacco is a real nightmare.

[RichardP]

Just yesterday heard a fellow psychology professor give a talk about nicotine and cessation techniques. Diseases caused by smoking kill about 440,000 persons in the US yearly, while alcohol kills "only" about 100,000 (CDC data). About 24% of the US population smokes, while about 50% drinks at least occasionally. About 70% of regular smokers say they would like to quit altogether. Addictiveness of drugs is defined by several factors, including typical number of attempts before successful cessation, etc, and based on that definition, nicotine is rated as more addictive than heroin, cocaine, alcohol, marijuana, and caffeine.Those are some interesting statistics.

[Fish]

Your points are well taken and I don't want to take away from your smokin' is a bad thing but...There are NO numbers that can show the long term damage to people and society at large from alchohol.I know a few people that smoking has contributed to their poor health.I know many people that have had their lives wrecked,ended,died terrible deaths,suffered daily abuse and all that goes with it.

If you don't know any or never been around an alchy your really lucky,I'd prefer a smoker of the two.

Don't misunderstand,although I seldom drink I have many friends that do,and most in moderation,but I've seen some things.

[Joe Shmoe]

Indeed a sad story about Rich. Unfortunately I don't think it's going to make anyone think twice about quitting.

Smokers are preached to day in and day out about the dangers/health risks of their habit. There is a warning on every pack they buy, yet they still remain indifferent.The problem is that it the cigarette companies have made them so highly addicitive, many cannot quit even though they would like to. Remember the movie "The Insider" with Russel Crowe? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0140352/) that was based ona true story! Cigarette companies don't want you to quit.. they have scientists hired to make it so you don't. pfft... even Ozzy has said "that sh!t is worse than crack" LOL... I just listened as Dennis Miller on Late Night slammed Obama for lecturing Americans on personal discretion, and he himself cannot quit smoking....[]

I watched my step father die of cancer related to smoking, asbestos etc.. It's not going to be long before my biological father ends up the same way, he not only battles cigarettes but also is an alcoholic. (see pic)

So... trust me when I say that I am just as bitter as you when it comes to smoking and smokers in general!

[HTADDICT]

I'm a five year quitter of Copenhagen, that is after 14 years of chewing, and I still miss it every day. It truly is the Devils bane...however I have four boys of my own and decided in mid pinch to quit and have never touched it since, now if I do happen to get cancer at least I can say I tried, and I can go to my grave a man instead of feeling like a coward who was too afraid to quit.

[germerikan]

Thanks for the link, I read on to the other links mentioned and the story on Brian Curtis was just as bad. The picture at the top brought back memories. Been there done that, afterwards kept smoking. That is not a monkey on your back it is a big 500lb. Gorilla that beats you everytime you want him to get off.

Due to the other thread on Quitting smoking (and the fact I thought I had a heart attack) my self preservation kicked in and with the help and support of the people here (Thanks oscarsear and other klipschies for the info and supporting words) I was able to kick the habbit now since November 2007. My wife still smokes and if beating were allowed I would beat her every day that she still does it. All I can do now is give her the best support possible and continue to hope.

Do I still want to smoke? Believe it or not in some situations Yep. It is hard to get the drug out of your system but once out it is up to the mind to keep it out and unfortunately that is the weakest link. I am not a militant anti-smoker now (except for my wife) and if everyone stoped smoking at the same time the tax loss would probably cripple the worlds economy. A fine Cohiba and a smooth 15 Anos rum (just thought why does smoking and alcahol go so good together?) is a wonderful end to an evening, but I can also understand why oscarsear goes balistic when he hears the word smoker. Having to deal with the "worst case" with the smokers day in and day out would be to much for me. My hat is off to him and all medis like him.

Joe... you have my sympathies dude. Only people who go through something like this can relate.

[oscarsear]

It is curious that my detractors have not chimed in sharing their indignant pot shots at yet, another tobacco rant. I suspect that they have not even visited Rich and read his plea. But they are all juggling razors. It is human nature to think positive so I cannot deny them their skepticism's. Their real denial is not accepting their addiction, that they are captured by the drug nicotine. The fact remains that Rich was once in those shoes. He, too, 'understood' the risks and assumed the 'it won't be me' attitude. Then one day, it was him, and the miserable saga began.Joe, I am honest about this issue. If your step father had mesothelioma it was a form of lung cancer that can exclusively be attributed to asbestos. It is just as horrible, but not attributed to tobacco. Regardless, having dealt with his experience you do understand precisely this issue. There are so many taking this terrifying ride because this country fails to adequately corral up this amoral industry.For you folks who despise my purposes, despise away. My problem is that I care more for you than you do for yourselves. That is a personality flaw I can readily live with.

[tuned4life]

I go on this rant in hopes it might help someone. I will be 55 in June. I smoke over 2 packs of Marlboro reds a day. I am alcoholic and have been sober for 20 years and 346 days. Thats to say that I have not had a drink of alchohol or mind altering drug of any kind. Thats saying alot in that I drank, and smoked Pot every day for 21 years. Form 1983 to 1988 I had a full blown valium addiction. When I first got sober I couldn't laugh or cry or see any color. I don't miss drinking or druging. That person that drank and drugged is like someone I used to know. I am happier now than I ever was as a child. I am originally from a remote farming area in Northern N.Y. Most of the guys I knew were smoking cigerettes by age 12. We all thought we could quit if we wanted to, the problem was we didn't want to. Why would we, 30 cents a pack with a machine in every gas station. There was even a cigerette machine in the all night laundermat. I quit cigerettes cold turkey in 1977 and stayed off them for 6 years. That whole 6 years I knew I was one cigerette away from 2 packs a day. Why did I light that first cigerette after 6 years ? It's a baffling question. Certainly not because of lack of will power. Maybe it was that old lie, I can quit again if I want to. Maybe because of my compulsive obsessive personality. Maybe because I liked playing with fire. In 1990 I quit again. I was mercy flighted to the hospital with a tempture of 106.7. I caught viral phnemonia, the same kind that killed Jim Henson. I was in a coma for 9 days. They read me my last rights and told my mother that if I survived I would have severe brain damage because my temp was to high for to long. When I came out of the coma the first thing I saw was my AA sponsor crying. He told me I was in the hospital and that every thing was OK. When I opened my eyes it was like someone turned the power back on. First words out of my mouth were do you have a cigerette and who's got my wallet. My lungs were damaged permantly as was a valve in my heart. After coming out of the coma it took a week to be strong enough to get out of bed. The doctors told me that if I started smoking again I wouldn't see age 40. I started smoking again 3 months after I got out of the hospital .In 2005 my wife started a 48 week interfron ribberviron treatment for Hep C. By the time she discovered she was sick she already had advanced chirrois. She was told that if she didn't smoke the treatment had a better chance of working. I wanted to give her the best possable chance so I quit . I quit this time for 11 months 26 days. Other than gaining alot of weight I didn't miss smoking and was enjoying being a non smoker. I tried not to show it but it hit me hard when her treatment was unsucessful. It was shortly after that the mental obsession returned. I fought it day and night for weeks. No amount of prayer would relive the obsession. The fact that I have emphasema was a mute point. I share all this in hopes that maybe you can try not to judge us so harshly. IMO those afflicted are not at fault. I quit drinking, my smoking got worse, I quit smoking my eating went out of control. My observation has been that to a man those with compulsive obsessive tendancies never get totally free. I suspect it is a manifestation of self centeredness. My only reprieve has been service to others and I got addicted to that to. Not addicted to Klipsch yet but I should watch for the warning signs. GOD grant me the serinity to accept that I won't live forever, The courage to age with grace, and the Wisdom to LOVE those who condemn me.

[germerikan]

That whole 6 years I knew I was one cigerette away from 2 packs a day. Why did I light that first cigerette after 6 years ? It's a baffling question. ....

I share all this in hopes that maybe you can try not to judge us so harshly. IMO those afflicted are not at fault. I quit drinking, my smoking got worse, I quit smoking my eating went out of control. .......

GOD grant me the serinity to accept that I won't live forever, The courage to age with grace, and the Wisdom to LOVE those who condemn me.

I know what you mean. After I quit I also turned to food and gained 45lbs. Now I´m back down 25lbs with 20 to go. The detox is the worst IMO. I also know as I sit here and type this if I take one of the ciggies laying here from my wife 10 min. later I´ll be down at the store buying a new pack.

No judgement from this side, this is a situation where you can go in circles for years. Ciggies are the worst drug in my book because it is legal. It is our fault because we started with it, but it is one of the hardest things to do in your life to get away. You know everything you have to do since you got off the bottle, my hats off to you. It´s never to late, but it is your personal choice. I wish you all the best in case you ever want to stop again.

This is the 3rd and I hope last time I´ll stop.

[Joe Shmoe]

For you folks who despise my purposes, despise away. My problem is that I care more for you than you do for yourselves. That is a personality flaw I can readily live with.

Well said Oscar. As for my step father, it was mostly the asbestos the first time around. They were able to get it into remission, however his unability to quit smoking got him a short time afterward.

My biological father unfortunately I am not as close to. His issue is directly from smoking, but his alcoholism makes it tough to even try and get close to him, or feel sorry for him. []

[oscarsear]

tuned4life.... I 100% agree with you. It is NOT the fault of those afflicted.

If you re-read my various postings on this subject you will find that my anger is primarily directed at the tobacco industry and our chicken gov't for allowing that industry to continue to prey on our citizenry. I became angered with particular posters on the Klipsch forum for their efforts to belittle by concerns and hamstring my efforts to advise. I spoke to their actions not their addictions.

I am very sorry to read about your struggles with addictions. Sharing your story here took a ton of courage. Your account of quitting tobacco is not unusual. Go to quitnet.com and read the stories of those desperately trying to end their nicotine addictions. I too once had a drug addiction to pain control meds. They were prescribed and I took them as they were prescribed but they addict just the same. My pharmacy ran out of refills one Friday and I figured I could manage the weekend without. Sat to Sun was a living nightmare that haunts me to this very moment. I got squared away on Monday and 2 months later was doing a very meager job of pain control eating loads of Ibuprofin, Tylenol, anything but narcotic pain meds. I still do that same meager job the same way today. I could quit an addiction and some people simply are not so equipped. My brother is a alcoholic. I won't allow him near any member of my family. He's scary.

Big tobacco sees to it that their products are presented in the most attractive light as is legally possible. They spend millions researching how to accomplish selling tobacco and millions more doing it. And it works much too often. They trick people into using their products knowing full well that once on board they are an addicted customer for life. They do not care about any health problems associated with their products.

The gov't should immediately end all tobacco advertising. The gov't should immediately require that all tobacco products are industrially packaged and all brands are packaged the same way. The gov't should require that tobacco be sold only in state run outlets to ensure that all tobacco laws are properly enforced. In those stores, at the point of sale, Rich's and many other similar tales need to be plainly displayed. This does not make tobacco illegal but treats it like the addictive drug and health hazard that it is.

If you have any questions about your emphysema go to pulmonologychannel.com where forums on the subject exist. I moderate there. Thank you for sharing.

[Joe Shmoe]

Man... if you haven't saw "The Insider" I would recommend it. Excellent film and pretty informative on how the tobacco companies really work.

tuned4life - thanks for sharing and my heart goes out to you... []

[tuned4life]

tuned4life.... I 100% agree with you. It is NOT the fault of those afflicted.

If you re-read my various postings on this subject you will find that my anger is primarily directed at the tobacco industry and our chicken gov't for allowing that industry to continue to prey on our citizenry. I became angered with particular posters on the Klipsch forum for their efforts to belittle by concerns and hamstring my efforts to advise. I spoke to their actions not their addictions.

I am very sorry to read about your struggles with addictions. Sharing your story here took a ton of courage. Your account of quitting tobacco is not unusual. Go to quitnet.com and read the stories of those desperately trying to end their nicotine addictions. I too once had a drug addiction to pain control meds. They were prescribed and I took them as they were prescribed but they addict just the same. My pharmacy ran out of refills one Friday and I figured I could manage the weekend without. Sat to Sun was a living nightmare that haunts me to this very moment. I got squared away on Monday and 2 months later was doing a very meager job of pain control eating loads of Ibuprofin, Tylenol, anything but narcotic pain meds. I still do that same meager job the same way today. I could quit an addiction and some people simply are not so equipped. My brother is a alcoholic. I won't allow him near any member of my family. He's scary.

Big tobacco sees to it that their products are presented in the most attractive light as is legally possible. They spend millions researching how to accomplish selling tobacco and millions more doing it. And it works much too often. They trick people into using their products knowing full well that once on board they are an addicted customer for life. They do not care about any health problems associated with their products. The gov't should immediately end all tobacco advertising. The gov't should immediately require that all tobacco products are industrially packaged and all brands are packaged the same way. The gov't should require that tobacco be sold only in state run outlets to ensure that all tobacco laws are properly enforced. In those stores, at the point of sale, Rich's and many other similar tales need to be plainly displayed. This does not make tobacco illegal but treats it like the addictive drug and health hazard that it is.

If you have any questions about your emphysema go to pulmonologychannel.com where forums on the subject exist. I moderate there. Thank you for sharing.

I agree 100%, the tabacco companies should be brought to a halt. To quote Neil Young " Like vampires sucking blood from the Earth". Another Neil Young line I should heed. " It's to late for generall Custer, to late for Robert E. Lee, I better get back on it before its to late for me". It's good work your doing If you don't accomplise anything else in your life, if you help just one child not to start, or help one to quit, Your life's work will be a huge success.

[oscarsear]

Today the tobacco industry has taken its marketing schemes to new lows. The Feds ended tobacco advertisements in broadcast, print media and street signage. So the tobacco barons just moved on to the next best place to hunt their prey which is convenience stores. The targets are teenagers and the place is every 7-11, ARCO store and so forth. Their research showed that this is where most teens quick shop for snacks. They don't go shopping in big stores, they hit and run these types of stores. Check this out the next time your in one. You will find huge colorful displays on the various tobacco products prominently displayed and the closer to the candy the better. Big tobacco spends $12 BILLION per year on just this sort of advertisement. 67% of new tobacco users are 17 or younger. Phillip Morris conducted a psych study and determined the advantages to warning teens not to smoke and strict enforcement of age limits. The more you tell a teenager NOT to do something and that it is for adults only, the more they think it is something special and worth experimenting with.

Big tobacco truly practices marketing science in its advertising and it always has. Think of them as not one bit different than a street corner drug pusher lurking around high schools and teen hang outs.