DrWho Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 It sounds like you are chasing the perfect theoretical that does not exist. Am I right? Absolutely [Y] But anytime you can hit the ideal or come real close is one less compromise to be made... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 It sounds like you are chasing the perfect theoretical that does not exist. Am I right? Absolutely But anytime you can hit the ideal or come real close is one less compromise to be made... Hey, Mike. It would have to be so hard to be a loudspeaker designer. I know you're going for the theoretical best scenario, but how can you possibly accomodate for every possible room variation? I reckon it would be relatively easy to design a speaker with known room characteristics... But real life siituations... I reckon near field/studio monitor designs work so well because they are 'tuned' in such a fashion that they don't really need to take into account room interactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 When Michael has a break, and we can tinker with a passive crossovers I want to try the 510 combo on my La Scala bottoms in my HT. I will get back to everyone here. Right now he is having wayyyyyyy too much fun in the "Roadie Workshop" to do much else! LOL.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 "yeppers, got em! Need some drivers now. SF bought a pair that were too unweildy to travel from IN to NY so he passed them to me. I found the cast throats fairly rapidly so they're about ready to go. " I did this twice.....I bought a set that was in Indy area, and a set that was in Florida.....decided not to ship them and offered them up.....however....still waiting for reports as to how they sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 JBL's: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1239419967&/JBL-2360a-JBL-short-throw-horn yeppers, got em! Need some drivers now. SF bought a pair that were too unweildy to travel from IN to NY so he passed them to me. I found the cast throats fairly rapidly so they're about ready to go. In reference to the JBL 2360 bi-radial horns, I am curious to see what you do with these and how they work out for you. I recently picked up a pair of the same model with JBL drivers (2446's) and will be using them for a current project of mine. Interestingly, these were part of lot of five (all new in box). I wonder what happened to the other 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie1dog Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 The JBL horns are WAY too deep to be used with the Jubilee bass bins. What I'm going to be looking for are horns that are short in height, like the stock Khorn units, in fact I got thinking I could get some Khorn midrange and tweeter units complete and put the two side by side with the tweeter on the inside of the midrange horn. I would be making a short as possible midrange/tweeter unit that would look similar to the stock Khorn unit. That way I could keep the height as short as possible so that I could stack the second bass bin on top to keep it looking symetrical. With each bass bin being 40" tall, the mid section would be about 12" or so tall, so that I would end up with a speaker that would be less than 8' tall. That would fit my corners nicely. I like the sound of the stock Khorn units anyway. I'm just suprised when I look at the AES paper on the Jubilee and look at Fig. 8 Frequency response of final prototype that it has an extremely poor looking response curve,,....nothing flat at all about it. Just makes me wonder about using some of the other drivers like was mentioned above that have a almost ruler flat response curve. I would think it would have to be a much better sounding top end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 ...and the jbl 2382A is no good because............ 2382a(2).pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie1dog Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 ...and the jbl 2382A is no good because............ Never heard of that one...that is not the same one they were talking about above which was 30" tall and 32" deep. This one you posted up a link to appears to be only 9" tall. Looking at the freq.response chart they posted using the JBL compression driver, it falls off rapidly after 5k so it would not seem to be a midrange only unit. I was looking for a 2 way design initally to keep some cost and simplicity in check. Thanks for the link though as I'm looking at all options to keep that mid/high midsection as short as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie1dog Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 I love the looks of this Visaton horn I found today although it is quite pricey. very nice looking and very short too. http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/p/V-6056-M300/M+300+-+Exponential+Horn This is the complete speaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie1dog Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Then I found this AES article on using two JBL 10" high efficiency drivers to replace the std Khorn midrange unit. very interesting swap. http://home.comcast.net/~wooferboy/Page_3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Then I found this AES article on using two JBL 10" high efficiency drivers to replace the std Khorn midrange unit. very interesting swap. http://home.comcast.net/~wooferboy/Page_3.html The fellow who wrote that article frequents this forum. He is quite knowlegible, although I don't necessarily agree with all his thoughts. You should definitely search the old threads to better understand his recommendations. Personally, I think the midrange should be done by a horn and not direct radiators. This is my bias. Regarding the JBL 2360: yes it is a big boy! It is not too deep since the Jubilee does need to be snugged into a corner. The reason they were mentioned is that they are available and affordable and have some nice features. As with any product, there are various pros and cons however. There are certainly other horns to choose from for a two-way system. Horns from EV and Community may be appropriate. I don't know the various models. Search the threads over at Audio Asylum for opinions by "DJK". He is a wealth of information. Good Luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I was looking for a 2 way design initally to keep some cost and simplicity in check. I think you will find that as horns become rectangle as opposed to square or round, their high end response rolls off faster than an equv round or square horn. So basically, the lower the profile, the more the odds are that a tweeter will be needed. The effect of this high end compression is more noticable the closer you are to the horns. Folks have used eq to push the envelope... basically they pump up the incoming signal inversely to the horn roll off with some tweaks due to room accoustic's. btw, the main plus of the 2382a horn is the 120 degreehorizontal pattern.....that will be tough to beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhendrix Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 btw, the main plus of the 2382a horn is the 120 degreehorizontal pattern.....that will be tough to beat. I can understand 120 degree pattern use in large "pro" applications, but why would one want the dispersion in a home? Seems like you would be spraying things all over the walls, creating a mess of reflected information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I can understand 120 degree pattern use in large "pro" applications, but why would one want the dispersion in a home? Seems like you would be spraying things all over the walls, creating a mess of reflected information. You mean kind of like if the muscians were actually playing in your home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhendrix Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 You mean kind of like if the muscians were actually playing in your home? Musicians playing in your home are very different from two speakers sitting in a corner trying to accurately reproduce the sound of musicians playing in various venues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Stacking two Jub LF bins will only net you an extra 6dB on top of the 130dB+ that a single bin will already do and that you should never even come close to requiring. In the meantime, you'll introduce extra comb-filtering and apparently throwing away MF/HF performance just so you can fit it in your room (not to mention your HF/MF will be limited to 120dB tops). In all honesty, if loud and big sound is all you're after then I would recommend a wall of direct radiators for your bass...or maybe even the MWM bassbin. It sounds like you're willing to throw away everything that the Jub LF has to offer (which is mainly the option for a top section like the K402). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 " I can understand 120 degree pattern use in large "pro" applications,but why would one want the dispersion in a home? Seems like you wouldbe spraying things all over the walls, creating a mess of reflectedinformation." I wasn't assuming that everyone puts their speakers in corners....a 90 degree horizontal pattern would be just fine there. For pro applications, most of the time you will find 60 degree horizontal pattern horns used for the extra throw which helps reach out to the audience. There are a lot of folks putting their Heritage products in flanking positions facing the listener...sort of like a reverse firing squad... you won't get as detailed an image using a 90 degree horizontal horn as you would a 120 degree one in this commonly used senerio. So basically, if all speakers were in corners...90 degrees would work...but wait....7.1 is 7 speakers...a room only has 4 corners...where ever you find a speaker not placed in a corner towed in...the 120 would work better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhendrix Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 but wait....7.1 is 7 speakers...a room only has 4 corners...where ever you find a speaker not placed in a corner towed in...the 120 would work better. Yes, the 120 degree horn might, indeed, work better in a side-surround application. Even the Klipsch KPT-1201 and 8001 surrounds use a 100 degree horn. However, used in a L/R main position, the 120 will be spraying information all over adjacent walls. Isn't this why folks use lots of absorption media at the point of first reflection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie1dog Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Mike: Thanks for your input, but everytime I've listened to two pairs of speakers together, it always sounds better,... effortless, more dynamic slam, more presence, better bottom end giving more "ambience to the sound",just more realisitic to me, but everybody is different and has different hearing. I'm not of the "my precious midrange purity and delicacy camp". Mini monitors, slender towers, bookshelf speakers never can and never will be able to reproduce the sound of being in the middle of a 18pc Big Band. they are worthless to me. Once again, everybody likes something different. Comb-filtering is non-existant to me and if it is a detrimental factor to sound reproduction, it's an extremely small one as the benefits of the extra speakers far outweigh its effects. Never have I listened to two pairs of speakers and said, " Boy, the comb filtering ruined the sound" Every concert I've attended usually has multiple speakers on stage. The last Pat Metheny concert I attended had one of the highest fidelity sounds I've ever experienced and there were a large amount of speakers playing together.' The MWM bass bin will not fit in most living rooms...it's footprint is far too big..too deep and too wide and requires a minimum of 4 of them to do justice to the sound. [] The problem with the 402 is that it's too tall for me. As far as your comment" you should never even come close to requiring" Ive heard the Jubs twice now and both times left saying, "Sure would be about right if there were 4 of these in a room as I never reached the volume level that puts the band in your room. Coytees was close, but his room is alot smaller than mine. The other factor you are not aware of is that I have an extremely large room to fill up. Approx. dimensions....32ft wide 28ft deep with 14ft ceilings throughout most of the room...that makes a HUGE difference in required output. Now compare that to your normal 8ft tall ceiling, 14ft wide, 20ft deep room....well, you can do the math. I also cannot put a "wall of direct radiators" in my room as it is my living room and my front wall has a 110" diagonal screen on it. My main wall is 19 ft wide that has the screen on it. The Jubs will fit into the corners nicely, and allow me to increase the size of my screen to 140" diagonal which is my next project for the video side of the AV system. Hope this explains my situation better. Bigger is better.[Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I never reached the volume level that puts the band in your room. Coytees was close, but his room is alot smaller than mine. Ya, but I only had it on 3... [:|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.