Transfering LPs To The Computer On The Cheap (take 2)

[BLSamuel]

($^&@%! hit the wrong key when almost complete [:@] )

I bought a Teac audio CD recorder several years ago to copy my LPs to CD but never got around to even trying it out more than once or twice though does nice digital to digital copies.

Since that time we've acquired mp3 players. More recently the idea of having a music server someday sounds like a great idea.

Here are my requirements in no particular order

• Inexpensive
  • not cheap, no point in doing it if it's done too cheaply
• Easy to use
  
  • a little effort is fine
  • I'll never get started if it takes hours per disc, obviosuly, it will take approximately 23 minutes to record one LP side but don't want to have to watch it and do any gain riding
• Good sound quality
  • Kind of pointless if it doesn't sound at least as good as 256k mp3 file from CD
  • I'm sure my ears aren't as discerning as many here
  • What I end up doing will I'm sure not be at the Dave Mallette level of such a project, and maybe not even close, but I guess that'd be the target (apologies to Dave if he doesn't like being the reference to aspire to)
• Ability to record any analog source would be nice
  
  • I have a few cassettes, all but a few recorded from LP, that I might want to include in this project if they're still of acceptable quality - most have not been played for over 10 years

The leading contenders

Xitel INPort Deluxe

$65.99 at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Xitel-INport-Deluxe-Record-Computer/dp/B000HE7M3M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1236554571&sr=1-1

Xitel:

http://www.xitel.com/USA/prod_inportdl_sw.htm

Software: LP Recorder and LP Ripper both by CFB and Wave Corrector software for noise reduction

Pros

• Claims / reviews state software is extremely easy to use
• Reasonable cost

Cons

• Line level only -
  no phono preamp

ART USB Phono Plus v2

$76 at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Phono-Plus-USB-Preamp/dp/B000BBGCCI

$59.95 at B&H Photo:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/381598-REG/ART_USB_PHONOPLUS_USBPhonoPlus_v2_Audio_Interface.html

ART:

http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp?type=90&cat=13&id=128

Software: Audacity is included (open source)

Pros

• Relatively inexpensive, especially if would otherwise need a phono preamp
• Built in phono preamp
• Built in headphone preamp
• Software may be more powerful?

Cons

• Software may be more difficult to use? But could get the CFB software included with the Xitel but would drive up the cost

I first saw the Xitel here in the Cassette to USB thread started by Colterphoto1 in 2-Channel Audio and posted by Spocka who has had good luck with it and the ART USB Phono Plus posted in Right This Minute by Dennie but no known experience here. That said (call me lazy) I've not searched for both here [:$]

Anyway. Any recommendations?

I'm leaning towards the ART USB Phono Plus at this time so I don't have to drag my phono pre-amp out here. Turntable and cartridge will most likely be my Dual CS-5000 with Shure V15 type 5mr cartridge or possible a Kenwood (thanks HarryO!) I originally picked up to use to make a record cleaning machine but may be functional with a little work with a Shure M97HEAH cartridge that I had used on a Pioneer PL-100 before I got the V15 and the Dual.

I was almost ready to pull the trigger on the ART but thought I'd see if anyone had any recommendations.

Thanks in advance.

[JL Sargent]

The Art system is advertised at .01 THD which seems good. Might do a good job. Its tempting for me to try it. I read all the reviews on it and they were mixed as expected. I'm gonna investigate the Goldwave software to see what it can do in this regard.

Seems like every few years I revisit this idea. Its going to take some serious time to convert several hundred albums to wav. or MP3 files. I know you can't wait forever with technology but I keep wondering whats around the bend. I would like to put on a record and this device along with software automatically make hiqh quality MP3 files with artist/title tags in place. Seems like that has ALMOST arrived, but not quite. I know Iphone has that technology in some way.

[Marvel]

I'm gonna investigate the Goldwave software to see what it can do in this regard.

I've used Goldwave quite a bit, and find it easy to work with and quite powerful.If you don't want to pull the plug on Wavelab or Sound Forge, it is pretty hard to beat.

I would also take a look at some of the Magix software. Depending on what you are wanting to do, they have a lot of different packages available. Most of the Magix stuff is spun off from their professional line of software (Samplitude and Sequoia, which costs from 500 to almost 3000 Euros).

[BLSamuel]

I've taken the plunge and now am the proud owner of an ART USB Phono Plus v2. I haven't tried it out yet but it will probably be awhile before I get that organized.... maybe I'll try it out as a headphone amplifier just for a quick check out as it will be awhile before I find room on my desk for turntable or on entertainment center for laptop.

Anyway. It came with Audacity which can also be downloaded.

Marvel wrote that Goldwave was pretty good and suggested looking at Magix. I have downloaded the trial version of Magix Audio Cleaning Lab v14. Maybe I should've gotten the deluxe version of that as it comes with a "high quality phono preamp" for $99.99 direct. For the long term I think the ART unit will be much more flexible and useful even doubling as a single source preamp or headphone amplifier. (Maybe 2 sources if one is digital, the RCA inputs may be switched between line level and RIAA phono equalization. http://www.magix.com/us/rescue-your-vinyl-tapes/

Anyway here are the contenders for software. I'm already biased a bit against Audacity as it sounds like it's a bit difficult to use and I'm lazy. But I guess I won't really know until I try it.

Audacity http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Goldwave http://www.goldwave.com/

Magix Audio Cleaning Lab http://www.magix.com/us/audio-cleaning-lab/

Please let me know if you have any recomendations.

Here are my requirements

• Inexpensive. Audacity is free. Goldwave goes for $49.99. Magix Audio Cleaning Lab goes for $34.99. I really don't want to spend anymore than I have to. WaveLab and Sound Forge are outta my budget at this time
• Easy to use - if it's too difficult I'll never get around to digitizing everything
• Good to very good sound quality

What I'm hoping to do

• Copy vinyl and maybe some cassettes to hard drive
• Identify tracks including ID3 tag informatino for mp3
• Clean up tics and pops, bad surface noise. Most of my LPs aren't too bad having religiously used a Disc Washer on most of the them - and I've read the small steam cleaner like I recently purhcased will do a really good job
• Burn to mp3 but would be wise to store in uncompressed format or maybe FLAC if available
• It would be nice to have a copy for potential loading to a music server in the future

I may just try the Audacity when I get around to trying things out and if it's too complicated try the trial version of Magix but I'd hate to start down the Magix path and find that I wished I would've used Goldwave.

[Marvel]

I have a slightly older version of Goldwave, and it can save as FLAC, Apple, WMA, MP3 and more, yada yada...

Like all software, you have to take some time to learn it. Audacity was not software that I found intuitive enough to spend enough time with.

[trashyrich1157]

I am expecting the ART I ordered to be in sometime this week. I plan on giving it a spin this weekend. I will let you know how it goes.

You mentioned some type of "steam cleaning " thing to clean records, can you elaborate on this.

Thanks.

[BLSamuel]

When I firest read about steam cleaning it was clean with the steam and wipe dry with microfiber cloths. I think that was the technique of a video I saw on You Tube.

Here are some links.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/97064/981494.aspx#981494

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/112677.aspx?PageIndex=4

Ok I only found 2 that said much but I'm sure there's more here... hopefully these will give you the basic idea.

I've not yet gotten organized to try the steam cleaning but hopeully soon to see how things go. Quite a few people swear by it - including some who use it with their record cleaning machines.

I have my ART USB Phone Plus but have not yet tried it out. I think it should make at least a decent phono preamp with added bonus of being able to transfer vinyl (and cassettes) to hard drive though sounds like I may want to get some software that's more user friendly than the included Audacity....

Good luck!

[colterphoto1]

I would never use a steam cleaner on my LP's the warpage is not good. even if it's temporary and the record returns to flat there would be some distortion of the grooves in the vinyl. No way.

[Marvel]

You can try the pva glue method. It will pull all the crud out of the grooves.

http://digitanalogue.blogspot.com/2008/08/wood-glue-deep-cleaning-vinyl-records.html

[trashyrich1157]

I got the ART and hooked it up last weekend. Works great as a preamp/headphone thingy. I bought a cable from Parts express to go from it to my computers USB and recorded an LP. Granted the LP was in pretty bad shape, but the Audacity(which is in beta testing ) seemed like it was made more for DJ's, I had to go to Audacitys site to see what did what , and even then it seemed like Latin to me. The clik/pop removal tool didnt remove anything, but it did make the music seem more compressed, and distorted.

That is my 2 cents.

I think it would be great to take a pristine LP and transfer it to your computer, but to try to clean it up? I am not sure. If any of you guys have used it and been sucessful, please point out the error of my ways.

that being said, I would like to know what the Goldwave is capable of. Sounds like good software.

I am done.

[colterphoto1]

most 'pop and click' reduction machines (at least the old Pioneer one I used to have) can only sense quick impulses and attempt to eq or compress them out of the mix. This has the unfortunate side of effect of removing things like cymbals unless done very carefully. I don't know if today's computer based algorithms are better than what was avaiable years ago or not. This type of noise is difficult to filter out.

Keep trying, it's a worthy effort.

Ben, any results from your experiments yet?

Michael

[Coytee]

You can try the pva glue method. It will pull all the crud out of the grooves.

Decades ago when I had LP's, I used the sand blast method... did great for the dirt however the process left the sound a little flat...[*-)]

[BLSamuel]

Ben, any results from your experiments yet?

I've opened the box and the USP Phono Plus packaging, but that's it so far. [:$] It will probably be awhile. After Rich's difficulty with the included software I may breakdown and get the Goldwave Bruce recommends. That said I suspect I should at least try the free stuff first but it sounds way too cumbersome.

I may try it as a pre-amp first straight into the Carver amplifier sitting on a desk waiting for a new power switch just to see if it has enough output to function as a preamp. I can hook it up to the Tannoy SRM 12B studio monitors I picked up last weekend for an office system. I'd probably start out with a portable CD player, tuner, or mp3 player as the source until I'd get the TT moved from the front room. But I first have to find our office first as it's the catch all junk room of the house.

I also want to learn to clean my LPs better than my DiscWasher. I bought one of those little steamers but haven't had the time or courage to try it out so maybe I'd be better off getting a good brush and get out the Dawn dish soap..

[trashyrich1157]

I will probably spend some time on the Audacity website this week to get familiar with the software and try it again next weekend on some lp's that are in good shape.

I will keep you posted.

[Marvel]

If you only had a couple of songs to do, you can just edit the individual pops. After a while you get the hang of it, but it is really tedious. I would only do that with some radical clicks and pops. The noise/click/pop reduction filters are usually adjustable, so you can try what works best and still leaves the sound you want to keep.

I almost hate audacity. Most packages are similar in operation. You record the track into the editor and then play with it. How easily you can do that also comes down to how easily you can repeat the process for each track you record.

[trashyrich1157]

Ok. I have had the Art for a few weeks now and am starting to love it. The first lp I tried to record should of been in the trash, I bought another copy that was in really good condition and the results were much better.

I have been using it to mainly record my lps to my computer.and then to make cds. If the lp is in good shape and you give it a good cleaning, you will get a good recording.

As far as the Audacity goes, I have played with it a bit, but agree with Colter that any of the pop/hiss/crackle software compresses/distorts the signal and makes it sound funky. So mostly I have just been recording them straight thru, and not really using what the Audacity has to offer.

But it is great to get the old lps out, and there is a vinyl shop just 2 1/2 blocks from my place, got 5 lps for 21$ today. This is great.

[JJkizak]

If you used some decent software like Sound Forge you could jack that pop stuff around about 1000 different ways without clunking up the sound. I have done this about a couple hundred times using the defaults with pristene results. You can also fix dropouts, missing sections, clipped peaks and channel levels. You can download the trial and use it for free for 30 days.

JJK

[trashyrich1157]

Thanks I will look into that.

[ace168516]

I also recommend Sound Forge...I played around with it and some plugins in the late '90s and it was good then. I know since then Sonic Foundry has been bought out by Sony, but the last version of Sound Forge...I think 7 that I played with post buy-out was still phenominal.

[Marvel]

Sony has done a great job - keeping Sound Forge a top contender. Perhaps THE ONLY contender. It would be great at any price. They have a smaller, home version for about $70, but the big one runs $300.

Bruce