MBM135 Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Well, they're here. The oak-oiled monoliths now stand in my living room having ousted the Kg4s out of the poll position. I have spent several hours listening to them and trying different things. I think they will take some getting used too. I've been a Kg4 guy now for 14 years so this is quite a change. Here is what I've noticed: 1. FII's have more detail--no doubt. They also the solve the problem of detail at higher volume levels--the main goal I was shooting for. They are definitly superior in that regard. Dire Straight's "Money for Nothing" in HDCD held together fine and clear at the higher db's. So did Fleetwood Mac's "Go Your Own Way" and U2's "Where the Street's Have No Name" and Creed's "Arms Wide Open". Good stuff for testing the upper end. In short, LOUD and CLEAR. 2. They don't take much power to run--could be my imagination but they seem to be louder at lower vols than the 4's. 3. Imaging is great. I could swear sometimes that vocals are coming from my KV-3 center channel even though I'm running 2 channel. Even had to walk over there and make sure once...but I got that effect from the 4's often too. 4. Want bass? No problem. Whoa...damn. Kg4s had good bass, but, my god...I won't be rushing out to buy a sub anytime soon. Sounds like the drummer is in the living room... 5. Here's what may take some getting used too: The highs and mid-range are more defined than the 4's. But, they almost seem a bit "bright" to me--or it could be that I'm hearing the drivers more at ear level while seated since they are higher up than the 4's which are a much shorter speaker. I have them only about 14in from the wall--maybe need to move them out a bit. Any ideas here? The Forte's are also a 3-way system vice the Kg4's only two. 5. Overall impression is that I do believe I have "upgraded" from entry level--no doubt. Was it worth the dough? Are they that much better than the Kg4's? Time will tell but initial read is YES. Hell of a testament to the Kg4 though--they are not as good but definitely compete. I will not be selling the 4's antime soon. If a guy only has a few hundred to spend the Kg4 is the best thing out there. 6. I've heard that Forte's strengths really come out with better amplification. So, amp will be the next upgrade. No rush though--my H/K has good high-current (+/- 25amps)and sounds pretty good. Very Happy! Would like to hear from fellow Forte-addicts though on any ideas/experiences for placement, etc. MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 It took some time for me to get used to my Chorus II's. They seemed pretty damn brite at first, a crossover upgrade and my ears got used to it. I have a pair of 1970 sansui Sp-2000's that I was upgrading the crossovers and put them in the system for a listen. While the Sansui's sound good, they are dead sounding compared to the Chorus II's. Damn Sansui's have three blown tweeters though, could be one reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 MBM135, I've been using Forte IIs for a long time .. I bought mine new, just after they hit the market. For years the brightness puzzled me. I think I know what's going on now. The Forte II is very efficient. Even if you're playing them at over 100dB, it is likely most of the high frequency energy (where you're hearing brightness) is drawing a fraction of a watt from your amp. If your amp is solid state it probably delivers substantial distortion at a fraction of a watt (transistor amps are usually rated at full power only, for a reason). What distortion does is produce a bunch of additional frequencies that are sums and differences of all of the harmonic frequencies that should be there. This adds a whole lot of intense trash in the upper midrange. Tubes tend to be linear by construction and tube amps are less likely to have a thing called a crossover region at lower powers. As a result, tube amps tend to produce a lot less of that harmonic and intermodulation distortion that you're hearing. Try to borrow a very good transistor amp (class A if you can find one .. see other threads in this "2 channel" section) or a tube amp. I have used a Dynaco ST70 with the Fortes and it was a good match. I happened to be particularly impressed with Fleetwood Mac's "Go Your Own Way" from "The Dance" with that particular setup. I currently use, with the Forte IIs, a homemade amp based on the Tripath TA1101B chip which uses a modified pulse width modulation output. Its distortion at 1/8 Watt is .07%. With my RF-7s I use either the Tripath amp or a tube no-feedback push-pull triode class A design. It's low level distortion seems to be even lower. The Forte II is a real classic. Enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 MBM - I also upgraded from KG4s to Forte's about a year ago, and was pretty amazed at the same things you mentioned -- imaging, midrange, and bass. I loved every aspect of them, but I kept my KG4s 'cause I love them, too. I think the 3-way versus the 2-way makes a big difference in their sound. I read in a review by Julian Hirsch (of the Forte I's), I believe, that he found the Forte's sounded best NOT toed in, but facing straight into the room, unlike most other horn speakers. And placement seems to make a difference with these, perhaps more so than other models of Klipsch speakers. I upgraded again to Chorus, but I'm keeping my Forte's, too. Just too darn good to part with! Enjoy. Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 It is trite, but comments like these just push up prices. I've had my Forte II for three months and love them. I run them toed in and they are symetrically placed in symetrical corners. The center image is uncanny. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 MBM- Welcome to the Forte II club. I certainly love my OO pair as well. I have mine slightly toed in as well. They are about 7-8' on either side of my TV my prime listening position is about 11' from the TV, and I have them pointing at or just in front of that position, so if you break out your trig book, you can figure out the angle. I did try them facing straight and like the toe-in better. I suppose I could play around with the angle; maybe a better one than I have now. Just haven't had the time to play. As Mike Lindsay or Doug Drake mentioned in an earlier post, we Forte/Chorus owners are a proud group and don't think these speakers get enough respect, not meaning to offend any Heritage owners. I would agree that the 3-way design of the Forte is better than the KG-4, but those are certainly nice speakers as well. And, yes, the center image is incredible. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 dougdrake2: I have the article you mentioned by Julian Hirsch; it was in the July 1986 Stereo Review: What Mr. Hirsch said was, "We followed this recommendation with very satisfactory results, although it did not appear to be a critical requirement." This was the article that led me to the Fortes way back when... the ironic thing is that, when I compare some of Hirsch's comments in his editorials and other articles with what I have learned since then, I realize he may have been the deafest audio reviewer in hi-fi history (his praise of the Forte notwithstanding). He wrote on several occasions that all amplifiers sounded alike; he later said the same of cd players. His review of the Forte, and of most other pieces he tested, seemed to accent the measured responses of equipment, and not rely on terms like "fatiguing" or "forward". I appreciate the science behind some of his approaches, but have learned that some audio experiences cannot be quantified numerically. I do have to agree with his assessment of the Forte: "In absolute terms, and especially at its price, the Forte would be hard to match, let alone surpass." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 chuckears - Thanks for setting me straight I believe I was confusing that article with another I had read on the 'net. Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 how anyone could say that the toe in is not that critical is beyond me, the creation of a sono-graphic image is very critical to me when I am trying to create "the recording studio in my living room" illusion," I can understand the amplifier comments, as usual, people leave off the most important qualifier, that they all sound like within operating range, once amps start to clip, they all sound quite different with various tones, this is something tubophiles know, beacause, since all amps clip at some point, the soft clipping of tube amps becomes quite important to the quality of the sound- the thing about CD player, however, I will never understand, unless, as usual, we are missing some important qualifier, such as they reduce all line levels to exactly the same, we now know that player jitter makes a very big difference in the player signature ... ------------------ Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vahorns Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 While on this topic, I'd like opinions that compare the overall sound of the Forte line to the Cornwalls. Looking strictly at the Klipsch spec sheets, the Forte goes lower, to 32 Hz, versus the Cornwall's 38 Hz, but has a much smaller cabinet than the Cornwalls. Obviously the 15" passive radiator helps the Fortes. The Cornwalls weigh about 108 lbs. while the Forte are in the 70 lbs. range. Acoustic output for the Fortes is listed at 119db SPL, while the Cornwall is not shown on the spec sheet. I have an opportunity to buy either, which would you choose, and why? My impression is that the Fortes are more suited to reproducing rock music, while the Cornwalls have a different overall sound character. Insights from owners are appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Hi folks, I'm looking to put a nice system together for a family member for under a grand. I noticed the following on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1334650598 I've never heard the Forte but I love (own) most of the rest of the Heritage line. Anybody know of this pair? I noticed a repair job on one of the two, although it looks like it was well done. I'm wondering if it is JHawk92 who's selling these Maybe he had a second pair? ------------------ If you don't like what is coming out, you wouldn't like what is going in." -PWK- --------------------- TWO-CHANNEL SYSTEM AES AE-25 "Superamp" AES AE-3 Pre-amp New Tube 4000 CD Player 1976 Klipschorns (ALK'ed) HOME THEATER Klipsch 1968 ALK Cornwall "II"s (LF/RF) ALK Belle Klipsch (Center) Klipsch Heresy (RR/LR) Klipsch KSW-12 sub Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Cornwalls) Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Heresy's) Denon AVR-4800 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD This message has been edited by Chris Robinson on 02-25-2002 at 03:41 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Chris- Nope, not mine. I was looking to bid on them, but with the mods, I am no longer interested. He was asking too much for an outright sale. I am looking for a OO pair of Forte IIs in near-mint condition, without any mods, preferably with original boxes and somewhat close. Yeah, it may be a dream, but I can wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Jhawk, I was recently on the quest that you are now undertaking (finding nice OO Forte II's). It's frustrating finding the right set, as they all seem to have water marks from plants, bad bases, or something else wrong. I was lucky enough to find a set at a very reasonable price from an esteemed fellow board member, and could not be happier with my purchase. They are well worth the wait. I plan to re-veneer the Chorus I's, and my Forte II's eventually so they all match up anyway, so the slight blems that are there will not be visible. Vahorns...If you have the opportunity to buy both, why not do it, compare the two sets, and depending on what you paid originally, sell the set you like least for a tidy profit. Just a thought I have not heard the Cornwalls, but the Forte's are very nice. I would say they have somewhere in between the sound of the Heritage stuff and the recently discontinued KLF stuff. Not as much slam as the Legends, but cleaner bass that still gets low. They are different in the mids and highs from the Heritage, but lower bass than everything but the KHorns (and the Cornwalls maybe), and I think the mids and highs hold their own pretty well against the older stuff. As mentioned earlier, the Forte's, while in demand, are still under-appreciated. I think they stand up very well to and sometimes surpass the Heritage Series (excluding the KHorns), and all of the RF and KLF stuff. They're just different is all...... Speed Good luck, Speed ------------------ Klipsch Chorus I Mains Klipsch Academy Center Klipsch Forte II surrounds Marantz SR19EX Receiver Yamaha 5 CD Changer Mitsubishi WS-55807 55" HDTV Playstation 2 for games/DVD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Leok, I have a Technics "New Class A" amplifier, for what I understand it is a real Class A on the first watts and then passes to a Class B. Do you know something about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Speed- Yep, I hear ya. I certainly don't want water stains, dinged up bases, etc. Even now, my wife sorta hates me since I don't want any plants on my Fortes. "But honey, there is so much usable flat space there!!!" NO WAY! Now I am toying with the idea of getting a pair of OO Chorus IIs and move the Fortes to the rears. Too many choices, but lotsa fun to play with. Good luck with your re-veneer project. Bet that will be a big job, but should be beautiful when done. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzer Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 jhawk92, Go for the Chorus IIs, I have them up front and KLF-20s rears. Your combo should sound VERY GOOD!!!!!! ------------------ Cruzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 cruzer- Yeah, I'm kinda leaning that way. We'll see how things go. What I really need to do is re-audition the Chorus II, since it's been 10 years since I did any critical listening to those. That will certainly help make a decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzer Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Jhawk92, I only can tell you that I have the privilege to listen to a lot of speakers, since I am in the military, the Chorus STILL the main speakers in my system...friends just keep telling me how good they sound. In one or two words, JUST DO IT!!!! You will NEVER be dissapointed and if you do, let me know, I WILL buy them from you. ------------------ Cruzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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