Mr. Widget Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I have a few questions about these rare beauties. I have recently seen a pair that might be available and was wondering why the rosewood of this pair has turned medium to light brown somewhat in the color range of Teak. They are RL (lacquered rosewood) and the grain is certainly rosewood, but they are no longer that deep red color that I am sure they were when new. I have seen photos posted on line of other vintage rosewood Klipschorns that are similar in color, but others are still the deep red color. Is this lacquer vs. oil? Is it due to the amount of sun they were exposed to? These are from 1977, so I am sure they are genuine Brazilian Rosewood and not the Pau Ferro that is used these days and called rosewood. Would it reduce their value if the lacquer was stripped and they were refinished in oil? There are numerous light scratches in the lacquer but the wood below seems fine. The hope would also be that sanding the wood lightly might bring back the color. Anyone have experience in this area? Finally, these are not mine... what would be a fair price to offer? They seem to be in average condition... used, but not abused. Thanks for any input. Widget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 With the economy the way that it is...good time to buy khorns as prices continue to drop...bad time to sell khorns unless you bought them at craiglist prices. This thread has been sitting for most of the day becuase historically we get folks with little forum activity post these types of senerio questions then the next thing you know the subject speakers wind up on ebay at a ridiculous price. So best bet is to check ebay past sales using the advance search feature and select completed listings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Widget Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Thanks for the input... I am a regular over at another discussion forum and folks there can get quite testy towards "What is this worth?" posts from newbies. The main thrust of my inquiry though was about the wood. Does anyone know why some rosewood speakers stay red and others turn brown and will refinishing them possibly return some of the original color? I remember seeing these when Brazilian Rosewood was available and they were simply amazing looking... this pair is nice, but not quite so amazing. Widget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesV Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Does anyone know why some rosewood speakers stay red and others turn brown and will refinishing them possibly return some of the original color? I have seen some post that talk about speaker turning a different shade due to BLO and direct sunlight, this may be the case. I could also be wrong. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo72 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 This thread has been sitting for most of the day becuase historically we get folks with little forum activity post these types of senerio questions then the next thing you know the subject speakers wind up on ebay at a ridiculous price. So best bet is to check ebay past sales using the advance search feature and select completed listings. Mr Widget is an active member over at the Lansing Heritage forums, where I spend a fair amount of time reading but not posting like I do here. I'm sure his situation is simliar but opposite. He is a respected and knowledgeable member over there, so lets cut him some slack. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 If they are truly the Brazilian Rosewood versions it would be indicated on the labels as such (i.e. KB-BRL = Klipschorn, B-Type cabinet, Brazilian Rosewood Lacquer) if not it would be KB-RL for regular Rosewood Lacquer. The grain and color can vary significantly. Sun exposure would certainly lighten them over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 i agree with frznin above about not being brazillian rosewood because it would say it on the label. i have owned a set of factory rosewood lacquered cornwalls from 1978 and they are very light in color. label said C-RL. had a teak set also ( not factory ) and the rosewood was lighter in color also. as far as value, pictures would tell the story. 1500 - 2200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 My guess is the rosewood you've seen in photos has greatly exaggerated reddish color to them. I've seen Greg (one of our great forum member refinishers) post numerous pics of rosewood veneer that almost looks to be bright red. He has stated quite often that the color in the pics are due to the lighting and they do not look that way in person. I think what you're seeing with these Khorns is probably closer to the real color of rosewood. A light sanding will definitely bring new life to them and you could change to an oil finish at that point that will certainly change the color. As far as price.........$2000 to $2500 depending on condition, shipping issues, etc., IMHO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Widget Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 These are definitely rosewood. See pics... I agree pics can be misleading, but I have worked with Brazilian Rosewood and I remember Klipsch using some excellent examples of the stuff back in the '70s. I have to believe that these were significantly different looking when new. These are at a local estate auction and I am tempted to bid on these and refinish them even though I have no need for yet another pair of speakers. That said, they will likely go for more than I am willing to pay and besides that I'd prefer to avoid putting my marriage on the rocks again for some beautiful speakers. Widget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 If a flash was used or weird room lighting sometimes that would make them look different than they would in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Widget Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 Second image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Widget Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 If a flash was used or weird room lighting sometimes that would make them look different than they would in person. These images look on my computer very close to the way they looked in person... and far from old rosewood veneer samples that I still have and far from my memory of the rosewood Klipschorns I saw 30+ years ago. Widget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Widget Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 If they are truly the Brazilian Rosewood versions it would be indicated on the labels as such (i.e. KB-BRL = Klipschorn, B-Type cabinet, Brazilian Rosewood Lacquer) if not it would be KB-RL for regular Rosewood Lacquer. The grain and color can vary significantly. Sun exposure would certainly lighten them over the years. I guess I didn't read your post as carefully as I should have initially. So apparently even back in 1977 Klipsch was using pau ferro as well as genuine rosewood. That might explain the fading. When new both woods can look pretty similar though pau ferro which is also called South American Rosewood, Bolivian Rosewood, and sometimes just rosewood is typically not as wildly striped with the classic fine black lines woven through the wood and while it can be red I have seen quite a few examples fade significantly with time. This post was exactly what I was after... I knew there would be a Klipsch expert here who could help me sort through this... still, these are really quite nice... I only have a couple of hours to decide if I want to bid on them... I know I want to, but then I also know I shouldn't. Thanks for the help. Widget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I see what you mean. These are different than the rosewoods I have seen as well. There are many types of rosewood. I would love to have a pair that nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 The lacquer can yellow with age, but I'm with the majority that this is different wood variety than Brazilian Rosewood. Still a very handsome grain pattern, a very pretty species! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 PWKs rosewood khorns looked abit like these as well. I was told by an ex-employee that Brazillian Rosewood could be several different trees all sold under the name brazillian rosewood. This may account for the difference we are seeing. Funkyhambone in LR has an amzaing pair with lots of red and blonde mixed with it and they are stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Widget Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 I am certain based on Frzn's post that these are pau ferro. This is the only species of "rosewood" that you can get these days. The Brazilian rosewood that used to be available hasn't been exported in lumber or veneer form since the mid '80s. That said, with all of these exotics, the grain patterns do vary quite a bit. I am hoping that Michael's suggestion that the lacquer yellowing may also be a contributing factor. I dropped by the auction house this morning to put in an absentee bid. They looked even better in person than I had remembered. Fingers crossed. Widget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 That sounds right. I think they are beautiful. The grain pattern is great. Good luck!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesboy Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 This is a humidor I built from rosewood several years ago. I can't remember if it was African or South American rosewood but it doesn't look the veneer in your pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Yep, the labels indicate they are Rosewood Lacquer and not the Brazilian Rosewood lacquer, the Brazilian Rosewood was available in 1977 however I like the grain on those very much. Here is a Heresy finished in BRL hand picked with Paul Klipsch at the Hope, AR factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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