v-trac demo impressions

[Rudy81]

Jay,

I never ralized the deficiencies in my mid range until now. As I indicated in my first impressions, it is a difference of quality. The sound from the V-trac is more "robust", has more life like qualities. Now, my stock horns sounds like singers are 'distant' and singing through a tunnel of some sort. Very weird, and unpleasant experience. I guess I just needed something to compare to. I still say the changes can best be noted in vocals and certain piano frequencies.

[jcmusic]

Rudy,

No argument here my friend. In fact I have a copy of Waltz For Debby by Bill Evans in reel 2 reel format from The Tape Project and I use it as my reference for piano.

jay

[Mike Lindsey]

For those that have had an opportunity to hear this horn/driver combo and are hearing a marginal difference I say it's all in your electronics. I have been listening with VRD's/BBX/TD-124 and the difference is staggering! The details I am hearing are overwhelming! After living with this combo I could never go back to the stock configuration. There is no comparison beween the K55/K400 setup and the BMS/V-Trac!I agree the cost is substantial but well worth it in my opinion.

For those of you on the fence with this upgrade I think you need to take a leap of faith.This combo is all its advertised to be and more. I think its the best upgrade I have ever heard... even more so than the ALK Universals!

Mike

[Rudy81]

For those that have had an opportunity to hear this horn/driver combo and are hearing a marginal difference I say it's all in your electronics. I have been listening with VRD's/BBX/TD-124 and the difference is staggering! The details I am hearing are overwhelming! After living with this combo I could never go back to the stock configuration. There is no comparison beween the K55/K400 setup and the BMS/V-Trac!I agree the cost is substantial but well worth it in my opinion.

For those of you on the fence with this upgrade I think you need to take a leap of faith.This combo is all its advertised to be and more. I think its the best upgrade I have ever heard... even more so than the ALK Universals!

Mike

Bummer. You mean I have to get rid of all my electronics?

[Crossman]

I could never go back to the stock configuration

I agree 100%. If I had to remove the v-trac/2" BMS drivers, I would sell the speakers because I couldn't listen to them again.

[Rudy81]

I could never go back to the stock configuration

I agree 100%. If I had to remove the v-trac/2" BMS drivers, I would sell the speakers because I couldn't listen to them again.

Whoa, that's going a little over the edge and I didn't say that, Mike did; just to be clear. Personally, I wouldn't go that far. I still really like the sound of my Khorns as they are (I already have the ALK and improved tweeters). The problem is that once you hear the improvement the V-trac makes, it makes it difficult to ignore the deficiencies of the stock mid horn. Frankly, although I had read about these issues, it is a totally different thing to HEAR the difference in your own listening room. This becomes a 'didn't know what I was missing' thing that leaves you wanting!

In my case, I am also going to audition Al's Trachorns. I am hoping they might compare favorable even with a much smaller, cheaper driver. I am hoping I can get similar improvement at a lower cost and can add the same setup for my center channel La Scala. I have a 50% added cost due to my 7.1 HT system. The cost for someone with a stock Khorn is pretty steep. When you talk V-tracs, ALK crossovers and tweeters most everyone is talking more in upgrades than you spent on the speakers!

Hey, if you have the cash and notice the improvement, it's a no brainer. Many cannot or will not make that kind of investment no matter how good it sounds. Earlier this year I auditioned a pair of Palladiums and was very impressed with the sound. But, no matter how good they sounded I wasn't going to drop that kind of money on speakers.

I have the pleasure of enjoying the demo setup for another week and I plan to make the best of it.

[jcmusic]

Hey Rudy those are some good points, what I am doing is getting the horns and drivers and using my K-77 tweeters for the time being. Afterall it is the 2in driver that makes all the difference, I will listen to it like that either until I can't stand it or can afford another set of tweeters.

Jay

[Rudy81]

Let us know what you think. I am looking forward to doing a little V-trac, Trachorn comparrison. Yes, it will be comparing apples and oranges somewhat, but I can still compare overall against a stock K55, K400 horn. Totally subjective, I know.

[jcmusic]

Let us know what you think. I am looking forward to doing a little V-trac, Trachorn comparrison. Yes, it will be comparing apples and oranges somewhat, but I can still compare overall against a stock K55, K400 horn. Totally subjective, I know.

Rudy as far as comparing the K55/K400, that is a no brainer!!! There really is no comparism!!! Have fun anyway.

Jay

[Rudy81]

Jay: I would expect the stock configuration to be the loser in that deal. I am having fun though. Haven't played around with the system this much since the ALK crossovers arrived years ago.

[Mike Lindsey]

For those that have had an opportunity to hear this horn/driver combo and are hearing a marginal difference I say it's all in your electronics. I have been listening with VRD's/BBX/TD-124 and the difference is staggering! The details I am hearing are overwhelming! After living with this combo I could never go back to the stock configuration. There is no comparison beween the K55/K400 setup and the BMS/V-Trac!I agree the cost is substantial but well worth it in my opinion.

For those of you on the fence with this upgrade I think you need to take a leap of faith.This combo is all its advertised to be and more. I think its the best upgrade I have ever heard... even more so than the ALK Universals!

Mike

Bummer. You mean I have to get rid of all my electronics?

Make of it what you will. Your speakers are only going to reproduce the signal that is being fed to them. With my source, and in my room, the difference is night and day. Whether it be the K400's or 511B's. I would think if you are not hearing a night and day difference then it's either your electronics, the source, or the room. No offence intended.

Mike

[Rudy81]

Mike: No offense taken. I just think that listening to components is such a subjective area that it is impossible to expect everyone to hear the same thing you do. Claiming that if others don't have the same experience you do means their gear is faulty is rather presumptive on your part. There are way too many variables to expect similar performance. Let's start with human hearing. Some of us are more sensitive to certain frequencies than others, not to mention varying degrees of hearing loss due to life experience. Then there is, as you point out, the quality of the components and source material. Room acoustics play just as important a role as just about anything else.

There is also the issue of the V-trac and BMS compared to what? What did the individual start with? Totally stock speakers? How about if you had already done many upgrades such as ALK crossovers, Beyma's or Crites tweeters etc. The 'difference' noted, I contend, will be much more pronounced for a person comparing a totally stock unit with say AA crossovers, K77's etc. than someone with many upgrades already in the system.

In my case, I started out with most of the upgrades already in place. My room has quite a bit of acoustic treatment and my Audyssey processor does a great job of handling room acoustic problems like standing waves etc. So, my feeling is that my system was already pretty good. Yes, I noticed the difference the demo units make. Yes, it is substantial in vocals and in certain instruments. There is also a more 'realistic' sound to the speaker. I never really noticed the flaws because I had nothing to compare it to in my room with my equipment. So, for me it was not a stark "night and day" difference. I don't think that means I have inferior equipment or hearing or anything else compared to yours. It just means that for many reasons, my system differences and my perception was not as drastic as your experience was. Remember, we are all very partial to Klipsch Heritage gear. There are thousands and thousands of folks who really dislike the horn sound. Many of those enthusiasts would not like any of these systems at all. It is all very subjective.

I contend that I could go to your home, listen to your system, make the comparison and have that night and day experience. You could come here, listen, make the comparison and decide it is noticeable, but not as great a difference as we may have noted in your room. Like I said, way too may variables.

These issues are precisely what creates the unending arguments over $100/ft speaker cable vs. zip cord, cryogenically treated plugs, uni-directional interconnects, tubes gear, vinyl, digital etc. etc. Frankly, it just doesn't matter. We are all continually searching for the best sound we can get and we all have different ideas of what that is. Fortunately, here we all tend to like the Klipsch sound.

Well, I'm home after a long business trip and am looking forward to enjoying the V-trac demo for a few more days before I must part with them and send them to another lucky, yet unsuspecting Klipschead! Hold onto your wallets....and enjoy.

[jcmusic]

Mike: No offense taken. I just think that listening to components is such a subjective area that it is impossible to expect everyone to hear the same thing you do. Claiming that if others don't have the same experience you do means their gear is faulty is rather presumptive on your part. There are way too many variables to expect similar performance. Let's start with human hearing. Some of us are more sensitive to certain frequencies than others, not to mention varying degrees of hearing loss due to life experience. Then there is, as you point out, the quality of the components and source material. Room acoustics play just as important a role as just about anything else.

There is also the issue of the V-trac and BMS compared to what? What did the individual start with? Totally stock speakers? How about if you had already done many upgrades such as ALK crossovers, Beyma's or Crites tweeters etc. The 'difference' noted, I contend, will be much more pronounced for a person comparing a totally stock unit with say AA crossovers, K77's etc. than someone with many upgrades already in the system.

In my case, I started out with most of the upgrades already in place. My room has quite a bit of acoustic treatment and my Audyssey processor does a great job of handling room acoustic problems like standing waves etc. So, my feeling is that my system was already pretty good. Yes, I noticed the difference the demo units make. Yes, it is substantial in vocals and in certain instruments. There is also a more 'realistic' sound to the speaker. I never really noticed the flaws because I had nothing to compare it to in my room with my equipment. So, for me it was not a stark "night and day" difference. I don't think that means I have inferior equipment or hearing or anything else compared to yours. It just means that for many reasons, my system differences and my perception was not as drastic as your experience was. Remember, we are all very partial to Klipsch Heritage gear. There are thousands and thousands of folks who really dislike the horn sound. Many of those enthusiasts would not like any of these systems at all. It is all very subjective.

I contend that I could go to your home, listen to your system, make the comparison and have that night and day experience. You could come here, listen, make the comparison and decide it is noticeable, but not as great a difference as we may have noted in your room. Like I said, way too may variables.

These issues are precisely what creates the unending arguments over $100/ft speaker cable vs. zip cord, cryogenically treated plugs, uni-directional interconnects, tubes gear, vinyl, digital etc. etc. Frankly, it just doesn't matter. We are all continually searching for the best sound we can get and we all have different ideas of what that is. Fortunately, here we all tend to like the Klipsch sound.

Well, I'm home after a long business trip and am looking forward to enjoying the V-trac demo for a few more days before I must part with them and send them to another lucky, yet unsuspecting Klipschead! Hold onto your wallets....and enjoy.

Just so that everyone knows, my expirence and review was based on the comparism of the demo units and my stock k-horns other than ALK Universal's. So for me there was a night and day difference!!!! Good points Rudy!!!!

Jay

[dkalsi]

I am not 100% sure, but I think I am next in line for these demo units.

I will be compaing the V-Trac + BMS + Beyma + ALK Universals to my current setup, which is:

ALK Trachorn + JBL 2470 + JBL 2404H + ALK ES Crossover.

I too am curious whether it will be a "night and day" difference for me. I am having few buddies (audiophile an non-audiophile) over for auditioning the upgade to help me decide which way to go.

The good thing for me is that I will only need to swap the JBL 2470+ALK Trachorn should I opt to upgrade. I plan to offset the cost of the BMS+V-trach upgrade with sale proceeds from the sale of JBL 2470+ALK Trachorn (which I expect to beclose to $400), making my effective cost $1,300 for the upgrade.

I just really want to make sure I can hear obvious positive difference as oppose to convinsing myself that I can hear the upgrade difference.

[Rudy81]

Tomorrow I should have a set of Trachorns delivered. I will be pairing them with the K55 currently in my system and the CT-125's. It will be interesting to note the comparrison between both wood horns with ALK crossovers. Since you have been listening to Trachorns for some time, your impressions will really be telling. I venture to guess that among those who auditioned the demo v-tracs, you will likely notice the least difference. The JBL drivers and the ALK ES network will make this a very interesting comparrison.

[Mike Lindsey]

Good points, Rudy.

Lilke you I already had the ALK
Universals, although this is a new pair in the Khorns. I also have
K77's, but prefer the Crites CT-125's in my La Scala's. I'm pretty familiar with the K55 as I had it in my La Scala's, and 2 pairs of Heresies. I can say without question the BMS driver dwarfs it in all things audio. Again, just my opinion, but I'm sticking to it. []

Mike

[Rudy81]

Mike: I would hope the BMS would out perform the stock driver. For roughly 10 times the price it had better. But is it ten times better, five times, twice as good, a little better? I don't now, very subjective and dependent on the size of your wallet and your priorities.

[greg928gts]

Tomorrow I should have a set of Trachorns delivered. I will be pairing them with the K55 currently in my system and the CT-125's. It will be interesting to note the comparrison between both wood horns with ALK crossovers.

I'm looking forward to your impressions. Will you go back to the K400 before putting the Trachorn in? If you did, you could hear the difference that just the wooden tractrix horn is making with the K55 driver. Then go to the 2" format.

Good luck. It always takes me a couple of weeks or a couple of months to figure things out, I don't know how people do it in a day or two.

Greg

[Mike Lindsey]

Mike: I would hope the BMS would out perform the stock driver. For roughly 10 times the price it had better. But is it ten times better, five times, twice as good, a little better? I don't now, very subjective and dependent on the size of your wallet and your priorities.

The ALKs cost quite a bit as well, and are they worth the price? You and I both thought so, but not everybody else feels the same way. To me, the ALKs were substantially better than the AL's and AA's, but only marginally better than the AL4's. Regardless, I have now bought 2 pairs of them and wouldn't go back to the stock networks.

As for the BMS drivers they are worth every bit what they are selling for imho. Another substantial difference in my system, in my room, yada, yada, yada. YMMV...

[Rudy81]

Greg: My plan is to first go back to the my K400 and K55 with the ALK and CT-125. Just reset the base line of what I had before your V-tracs. Unfortunately, I only have the K55's I'm using with the K400, so there will not really be a way to compare the Tracorns and the K400's quickly. In the last week I feel I have gotten a good sense of the V-trac sound.

Then, I plan to set up the Trachorns with the K55's and have my first listen. Then, I will be able to listen to the Trachorns and the V-tracs in relatively quick sequence. I know what I will be looking for after many hours with your V-tracs.

Needless to say, I'm no expert or 'audiophile'. Heck, I usually get frustrated just trying to find the vocabulary to express what I hear. So, take anything I say with a grain of salt. For me, this is a lot of fun and very different than what I normally do, so it is rather enjoyable.

I do know that I like the 'fuller' , more natural sound your horns produce. The experience has most definately shown me the shortcomings of the stock K400. One thing is to read about it, another is to hear the difference.