Tube Preamp Woes- Need your help!

[Cornwalled]

Hello all,

I have rued the day I bought my VTL TL-2.5 preamp. From day one, it has been plagued with problems, and no amount of throwing money at it can quell it. EXTREMELY unreliable. I have had the unit for about 3 months, and am on my 3rd set of tubes! It keeps blowing up 12AU7s- they become noisy very quickly, even $50 per tube NOS Mullards from Upscale Audio!

It's latest shenanigan is that the sound is constantly distorted and the left channel is quieter than the right.

I bought this from a friend of a forum member on the good faith that it was a MINT piece of equipment, and it's been TERRIBLE!

I absolutely HATE this thing. It sounds horrible and is extremely unreliable. I've thrown literally hundreds of dollars at it, only to be extremely disappointed! There's no worse feeling than putting in a brand new set of $200 tubes, only to have it blow them within a few weeks! What on earth could be wrong with this thing? Even at idle it gives a LOUD hiss constantly, regardless of what tubes are in it.

Worse yet, I've read that VTL's service is a nightmare. Apparently they take months to even look at the gear, and charge exhorbitant amounts of money too. Also, you can only send it out to them via a VTL dealer, the closest which is over two hours from me.

I've truly had it with this thing, and am about ready to give it away for FREE! I can't pan VTL enough. Worst experience ever. Easily enough to scare me away from tubes forever.

I want to break in my new hammer on it.

-Jon

EDIT: I thought I should add, that I've tried every sort of diagnostic / troubleshooting method possible, and it all comes back to the preamp. I've tried switching every set of tubes in both power amp and preamp, and it's still the same. The left channel is always weak- it doesn't move with the tubes. I've also tried swapping cables, even swapped speakers! When I switched the channels on the cable going from the preamp to the power amp, it moved- i.e, the right speaker was now weak, instead of the left. This points to the preamp. Also, if I turn the volume up real loud, the channel balance seems to get more even, but still not perfect. Perhaps a bad volume control? Also, the balance control gives occasional static when turned. This is inexcusable for a preamp that's under 10 years old. Very poor build quality. I really wish I never bought it. I know I'll never get my money out of it, so I basically threw away a ton of money! I feel sick. I've been totally misled.

[Cornwalled]

Upon further investigation, it seems the volume control is at fault. I find I have to keep adjusting the balance control to different positions, depending on where I set the volume control. I had this same problem with an old Heathkit amp. The Heath was 50 years old, it had an excuse. The VTL has no such excuse. I originally wanted a CJ PV-14L, Audio Research SP-16 or BAT VK-3i, all of which eskew the unreliable analog pot in favor of microprocessor switched volume. I know wish I had bought either of those superior products.

-Jon

[Coytee]

I'm not familar with the brand, just wanted to say I'm sorry you're having these issues...that really sucks.

[Cornwalled]

Thanks Rich, I appreciate it. Today it's sounding better (odd) but the balance issue still remains. I'll have to see about sending it out. The Jolida CDP's out for repairs right now too- logic / chip problem. I bought that one brand new and only had it for a month before it started acting up.

Hmm, seems high end audio isn't as "high end" as it used to be...

Shoulda bought ARC / CJ.

[mark1101]

Have you called Craig at NosValves? He could probably help. You shouldn't consume tubes that quickly, and your controls may need attention.

[Cornwalled]

Hello again,

I contacted VTL, and they suggested a tech in VA who services VTL gear- Bill Thallman at Music Technology in Springfield. He can
get parts from them if necessary, and is factory supported. I called him, and
he was pleasant and knowledgeable. I thought it might be a problem with the
volume control not tracking properly. I also mentioned the hiss, and he seemed
confident that both could be resolved. I'm optimistic. Now I just have to figure out what I'll use to fill in while it's gone! I jsut hope it's not expensive to fix.

-Jon

[Speedball]

That electronic stuff is way over the head of tha average guy. Keep us posted and your ears ready for some great times. Tube Preamps rule!

[Cornwalled]

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to clarify something about my original post. I realise now that it could be interpreted as a flame or attack of a forum member. It was never intended to be delivered in that fasion, and I regret if it was interpreted that way. I have had nothing but the highest respect for this member. I am sure that neither he nor his friend knew of any problems with the preamp when it was sold to me.

The preamp was sold to me at a good deal, definitely under Audiogon value, because of the forum. So, after I spend money getting it serviced by a tech, I'll probably be at around what a unit would have normally cost on Audiogon, with the exception of the extra money I've had to spend on tubes for it.

-Jon

[rivieraranch]

Sorry you are having this kind of trouble. Might as well see it through and then get it working and sell it. The Jolida is Chinese made but the company is here in Maryland and has good service.

[Just_Strummin]

Could be the power supply. What ever happened to this?

[Cornwalled]

I still have it. I packed it up and had it all ready to go, but didn't send it out right away. In the interim, I used a solid state preamp with the same VTL power amp, and noticed the same channel imbalance problem. So, apparently that is a problem with the amp, not the preamp. However, the noise / microphonics issue still remains. I just bought some nos Mullard CV4024's to replace the EH's, so now I'm running CV4003's and CV4024's. I bought them from Upscale Audio, and was told they are the best ones for VTL. The 4003's are CJ Test grade (quieter than platinum) while the 4024's are platinum. Just recently, one of the tubes began oscillating (not sure which one). It gave a high pitch not only out the speaker, but even audible from the preamp itself (mute engaged) so I've pretty much had it, and I'm going to try to sell the whole lot for whatever I can get for them.

I'm basically unhappy with my entire stereo and would rather have the $ than the gear. Power amp's weak on one side (despite tube swaps), Pre's noisy, CDP's konked out and the LS's are too big for my room. Other than that, it's great! LOL.

At this point, I never use it anymore anyway, it just all sits there forgotten about. I'm gonna dismantle it all and put in SS and dynamic's, cause I've just been way too stressed over this setup and don't like it.

I should stress that throughout all this, the La Scalas have been faultless- they continue to work perfectly. I just feel that my room is too small to do them justice. I feel like I would like I'm sitting too close- they need room to breathe! []

I sold the Cornwalls to my brother, cause he needed some speakers for his basement, so I'm sure he'll enjoy them.

-Jon

[russ69]

Call Kevin at Upscale Audio and trade your VTLs for a nice Music Fidelity integrated amp. They sound wonderful and they are built like a tank. It sounds like you and tubes are not meant for each other but don't give up the music.

Thanx, Russ

[Istari]

Jon,

I was wondering where those Cornwalls went to!!!!!!

If he ever want to get rid of them, I am ready!!!!!! I know where you live!!!

[seti]

Bat vk3i : )

[Islander]

I'm basically unhappy with my entire stereo and would rather have the $ than the gear. Power amp's weak on one side (despite tube swaps), Pre's noisy, CDP's konked out and the LS's are too big for my room. Other than that, it's great! LOL.

At this point, I never use it anymore anyway, it just all sits there forgotten about. I'm gonna dismantle it all and put in SS and dynamic's, cause I've just been way too stressed over this setup and don't like it.

I should stress that throughout all this, the La Scalas have been faultless- they continue to work perfectly. I just feel that my room is too small to do them justice. I feel like I would like I'm sitting too close- they need room to breathe!

It sounds like your whole VTL kit needs to go in for service before you spend any more money swapping tubes. As for the La Scalas, for the first several months after I got mine, they were only five feet apart and less than eight feet away from me, and still sounded pretty good. I eventually re-organized the room and got them further apart (thanks for the tip, psg!), which improved the sound quite a bit, but I'm sure glad that I never thought of selling them.

Maybe you should just simplify things by getting a quality integrated SS amp and just enjoy the music for a while. The upgrade merry-go-round can be fun, but sometimes one can fall off and have a hard landing.