jcmusic Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Who here has their k-horns bi-amped? Please give me some info on this. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I am currently bi-amping Klipschorn Jubilees (2-way configuration - see profile). Knowing that you didn't ask about those specific versions of the Khorn, here is a reference to bi-amping La Scalas, which should be very similar to bi-amping Khorns: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/123738.aspx Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 You looking to triamp your Khorns or biamp them while keeping the crossovers intact for the upper horns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Not sure yet just a thought for now, need more info. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Who here has their k-horns bi-amped? Please give me some info on this. Jay Jay, Have you heard the Jubilees?? If you have not heard them yet, I would recomend a listen before you drop money on the amplifiers at this point. Yes, you will probably run a pair of XTIs like most do on the Jubilee, but after spending many hours listening to Kevin Harmons pair with his KPT-684 dual 18 inch sub, I can honestly say that it is a no brainer, and I would not have thought that possible prior to hearing his. To me, the MCM-1900s sound just like a larger version of the K-Horn, but both the Jubilee, and the KP-600 stacks are an improvement over the orriginal design. I would like to hear J.C.s MCM Grand fours with a pair of KPT-684s as I feel that must be the altimate. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Who here has their k-horns bi-amped? Please give me some info on this. Jay Jay, Have you heard the Jubilees?? If you have not heard them yet, I would recomend a listen before you drop money on the amplifiers at this point. Yes, you will probably run a pair of XTIs like most do on the Jubilee, but after spending many hours listening to Kevin Harmons pair with his KPT-684 dual 18 inch sub, I can honestly say that it is a no brainer, and I would not have thought that possible prior to hearing his. To me, the MCM-1900s sound just like a larger version of the K-Horn, but both the Jubilee, and the KP-600 stacks are an improvement over the orriginal design. I would like to hear J.C.s MCM Grand fours with a pair of KPT-684s as I feel that must be the altimate. Roger RogerI have updated my k-horns with Greg's V-Trac's and BMS drivers/ALK Universal's. I had toyed with the bi-amping idea in the past, I am just trying to get a feel for what it intails. My goal is (I think) to have a similar punch in the low frequencey's at low listening levels like you have at high levels, if that make any sense. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 My goal is (I think) to have a similar punch in the low frequencey's at low listening levels like you have at high levels, if that make any sense. The easy way to do that is to add a sub. From what I hear, a Khorn's bass energizes the room, but not in a punchy way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 My goal is (I think) to have a similar punch in the low frequencey's at low listening levels like you have at high levels, if that make any sense. The easy way to do that is to add a sub. From what I hear, a Khorn's bass energizes the room, but not in a punchy way.I thought about a sub as well, but does a sub work well with k-horns? Also I am not real sure about how I can hook one up in my system.Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 but does a sub work well with k-horns? I'm certainly no expert to answer that...I would suspect it would take quite a capable sub to keep up with Khorns. When I first heard about subs I started looking around at them. I could never get comfortable that they would 'keep up' with my LaScalas. Heck... some of the guys I'd ask about it had never heard of LaScalas... so that didn't help my comfort zone on buying anything. Fortunately, at the same time, I also had my EV's (Interface D) which are not as efficient as LaScalas however, have a -3 db point at 28 hz so they added a very nice floor to the sound when I played the 4 together. Yeah...it might have been a cacophony of sound to some but boy... did it boogy the walls and floor when asked to!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Who here has their k-horns bi-amped? Please give me some info on this. Jay Jay, Have you heard the Jubilees?? If you have not heard them yet, I would recomend a listen before you drop money on the amplifiers at this point. Yes, you will probably run a pair of XTIs like most do on the Jubilee, but after spending many hours listening to Kevin Harmons pair with his KPT-684 dual 18 inch sub, I can honestly say that it is a no brainer, and I would not have thought that possible prior to hearing his. To me, the MCM-1900s sound just like a larger version of the K-Horn, but both the Jubilee, and the KP-600 stacks are an improvement over the orriginal design. I would like to hear J.C.s MCM Grand fours with a pair of KPT-684s as I feel that must be the altimate. Roger RogerI have updated my k-horns with Greg's V-Trac's and BMS drivers/ALK Universal's. I had toyed with the bi-amping idea in the past, I am just trying to get a feel for what it intails. My goal is (I think) to have a similar punch in the low frequencey's at low listening levels like you have at high levels, if that make any sense. Jay Jay, It makes perfect sence. The twin 12s in the Jubilee have more punch then my K-Horns or even my TSCMs. Klipsch still makes a sells the KPT-684 brand new, and while not a subsonic Woofer (Good for Movies and synthesized stuff) it will certainly do anything for any kind of music you could want. I think that all of the Jubilee owners need to talk with Kevin Harmon. After many hours listening to his Jubilees with and without the 684 running, I don't see how a Jubilee owner could live without one. I have a pair of Velodyne HGS-18II subs. They were alot more money then the Klipsch and for shotgun blasts, depth charges, and truely sub audible frquencies, they are killer, but for music that KPT-684 has the punch hands down and would be more then enough for your K-Horns. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Who here has their k-horns bi-amped? Please give me some info on this. Jay Jay, Have you heard the Jubilees?? If you have not heard them yet, I would recomend a listen before you drop money on the amplifiers at this point. Yes, you will probably run a pair of XTIs like most do on the Jubilee, but after spending many hours listening to Kevin Harmons pair with his KPT-684 dual 18 inch sub, I can honestly say that it is a no brainer, and I would not have thought that possible prior to hearing his. To me, the MCM-1900s sound just like a larger version of the K-Horn, but both the Jubilee, and the KP-600 stacks are an improvement over the orriginal design. I would like to hear J.C.s MCM Grand fours with a pair of KPT-684s as I feel that must be the altimate. Roger RogerI have updated my k-horns with Greg's V-Trac's and BMS drivers/ALK Universal's. I had toyed with the bi-amping idea in the past, I am just trying to get a feel for what it intails. My goal is (I think) to have a similar punch in the low frequencey's at low listening levels like you have at high levels, if that make any sense. Jay Jay, It makes perfect sence. The twin 12s in the Jubilee have more punch then my K-Horns or even my TSCMs. Klipsch still makes a sells the KPT-684 brand new, and while not a subsonic Woofer (Good for Movies and synthesized stuff) it will certainly do anything for any kind of music you could want. I think that all of the Jubilee owners need to talk with Kevin Harmon. After many hours listening to his Jubilees with and without the 684 running, I don't see how a Jubilee owner could live without one. I have a pair of Velodyne HGS-18II subs. They were alot more money then the Klipsch and for shotgun blasts, depth charges, and truely sub audible frquencies, they are killer, but for music that KPT-684 has the punch hands down and would be more then enough for your K-Horns. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Jay, just a couple of thoughts. Do you have the Crites woofers? I noticed a slight gain in low end performance with them in my Khorns. Are your Khorns sealed well into the corners? Have you tried re-arranging furniture in your room, or tried a different listening position? The Jubilee bass bins will certainly give more punch than Khorns. I'm working on integrating my V-Trac setup with them, but I've got a long way to go before I have it figured out. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Ok guys this is just a fact finding mission right now, I don't have any problem with what I am hearing now. I was just trying to find out if I could here similar at low levels. When I turn up the gain some my k-horns come alive, the bass has alot more of that punch to it, and I was just trying to find out if I could achieve similar results at low levels. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Ok guys this is just a fact finding mission right now, I don't have any problem with what I am hearing now. I was just trying to find out if I could here similar at low levels. When I turn up the gain some my k-horns come alive, the bass has alot more of that punch to it, and I was just trying to find out if I could achieve similar results at low levels. Jay Jay, Makes sense, similar to a loudness button for low listening levels. I understand that... So, are you thinking KTIs, or?? Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 Ok guys this is just a fact finding mission right now, I don't have any problem with what I am hearing now. I was just trying to find out if I could here similar at low levels. When I turn up the gain some my k-horns come alive, the bass has alot more of that punch to it, and I was just trying to find out if I could achieve similar results at low levels. Jay Jay, Makes sense, similar to a loudness button for low listening levels. I understand that... So, are you thinking KTIs, or?? Roger Roger what is KTI's?Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Ok guys this is just a fact finding mission right now, I don't have any problem with what I am hearing now. I was just trying to find out if I could here similar at low levels. When I turn up the gain some my k-horns come alive, the bass has alot more of that punch to it, and I was just trying to find out if I could achieve similar results at low levels. Jay Jay, Makes sense, similar to a loudness button for low listening levels. I understand that... So, are you thinking KTIs, or?? Roger Roger what is KTI's?Jay Sorry Jay, Mistyped XTi or Crown XTi like most are running to bi-amp their Jubilees. Cheapper Pro Amps with alot of programable functions so you can set up the active crossover points for the EQ and program out time delays for different lengths of the individual horns as well if I understand correctly. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 Ok Roger I see now. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Not sure yet just a thought for now, need more info. Jay More info: http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 think bi-amping, either active or passive, is the way to go: s-s on the bass bins, tubes on mid andf high end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 yes, you can get better bass at lower levels, in fact with passive bi-amping, you should not run higher levels (just to be safe) here are my posts: Passive Dual-amplification Like everything else with Klipsch, the use of twosimultaneous amplifiers on super-sensitive loudspeakers, like the Referenceseries or big ole horns is NOT as crucial as typical power hungry coneloudspeakers. There is also a time delay issue with bi-amplification, whichpertains more to cone drivers that constant directivity horns. Paul W. Klipsch himself said that all the Khorns need is agood 20-watt amplifier. Except for a few posts, active bi and tri-amping Khornsis not as popular as upgrading the drivers and the crossovers. If you “dual-amp” your big ole horns WITHOUT an activeelectronic crossover passive dual-amplification - each amplifier receives afull range signal and clips at the same point it did with only one amplifierhooked up to the speakers. The distortion of the high frequency (HF) horns masksdistortion from the low frequency (LF) amplifier, when it is clipping. Thismeans that if you use a 10-watt HF amp with a 50-watt LF amp it would take 400-wattsto play the same level undistorted through the passive crossover! I matched tube amplifiers with a 40-pound, Class A,solid-state amplifier rated at ten times more power. I use the delicioussounding tubes on the mid and high horns, with the cement amplifier on the bassbins. Maximum power at clipping on the Bottlehead Paramours is 6-watts.Clipping on the Pioneer M022 is 60-watts. I think this power ratio is importantto balance loads in a passive dual amplifier configuration. Otherwise you getsome nasty balancing issues, which are best resolved by an active crossover. Usingactive 3-way stereo crossovers however, is more expensive and tricky to getjust right. Passive amplification with dual amplifiers sounds better forme, since the bass bins are driven by my massive Class A amplifier withexcellent impedance control. Yet, I am NOT getting the full benefits ofdividing the signal ahead of the amplifiers. It is more like driving my big olehorns with a sweet and powerful sounding 200-watt amplifier – at a quarter ofthe price. 6/6/2009 Posted: 12/7/2004 Like the Cornwall,the 15” woofer in the Khorn bass bin is run full range. The crossover limitsthe signal to the mid and high range horns. I am not really bi-amping, morelike passive dual-amping. I am running flea-powered Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour monoblocksSETs on the top crossover (mid and upper horns) and a 70s vintage, 48-poundPioneer M-22 dual monoblock (think mini-Threshold) solid-state amplifier on thebass bin. The Paramours are rated for 3.5, but put out 6 watts. The Pioneer israted for 22 extremely low THD Class A watts, but puts out 60 watts. I think itis important that the power output of the amps be similar This is passive dual-amping rather than active bi-amping. Ihave a classic Dynaco tube pre-amp with two sets of RCA output connectors.Other wise, I would get a good splitter and send the full signal from yourpre-amp to your dual amps. Be forewarned that I do not crank my music very loud. Just a little bit of power is enoughto fill my townhouse and the neighborhood. Also, neither of my amps have a lotof power. They just have excellent low power sound. I have classic Klipsch corner Khorns with K-55-M compositesquawker, square K-77 tweeter and AK-2 crossover. There is a black dual fusebinding post panel inset (a crossover to us laypeople) into the outer wall ofthe lower bass bin. Copper Monster speaker cable runs from the high-frequency(HF) binding posts on the bass bin panel to the exposed AK-2 crossover in thetop section. A second set of binding post are marked Low Frequency (LF). AgainstKlipsch forum advice, I disconnected the top crossover from the bottom basspanel, by removing the speaker cable connection between them. I then connected mymassive Pioneer M-22 to the bass bin with thick, gray Coincident rattlesnakecables (yes, it makes a slight difference to the bass). I connected mycherished Bottlehead Paramours to the directly to the AK2 crossover with a goldspeaker cable adapter. The two amplifiers receive the full range output fromthe sets of outputs on my pre-amplifier. I love it. I think every high-end stereo system withefficient drivers could benefit from tubes. This solution gives the bass thepower it needs. The monster Pioneer has the best control of the bass of anyamplifier I have heard on my big ole horns. It sounds similar to the $6k PassX250 I heard on my walnut-oiled Cornwall1s, with B2 crossovers - but only at low to moderate low volumes. The sweettubes have immediacy, delicacy, soundstage and imaging. A wonderful combinationso far, though I will admit I do not crank it very loud. I understand thatsince I am running dual amplifiers, WITHOUT an active electronic crossoverahead of the drivers, each amp receives a full range signal and therefore clipsat the same point it did previously. So I am not getting the effect of 4 times more power as I would with truebi-amping, where you divide the signal ahead of the amplifiers. Bi-amping withan active crossover may be tricky, so I will probably go with a customextremely steep slope ALK crossover. True bi-amping will cut off much of thesignal going to the bass bins and allow the woofer and the bass amplifier toconcentrate its energy on the energy intensive bass signal. I also have a verydeep and powerful ACI Titan sub-woofer, so I am not in a hurry to move to the next step. 12/27/2007 As far as more gear isconcerned, by going to an active crossover you are running the same amount ofgear. You have source>preamp>crossover>amp>speaker insteadof source>preamp>amp>crossover>speaker. There are certainadvantages to having the speaker directly coupled to the ampifier: less powercompression, more efficient, better damping, no back-emf, etc DJK 12/18/2007: True, buteasy to remedy. You can have the same transfer function as your passivecrossover by sizing the input capacitor to your Paramour monoblocks, and gainabout 6dB of dynamic headroom (from removing the bass signal). You can continuerunning the Pioneer as you are because you have power to burn (relative to theParamour). Because the input cap will be so small (from the 270K inputimpedance of the Paramour) you can try what would (at speaker levels) be veryexpensive caps; Mundorf oils or Teflon. If you need still another 6dBdynamic range, the Paramour may be wired for 16 ohms and the tweeter crossoverfrom the Klipsch LB-76 network used instead of the AK2 HF sections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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