MCM Jube's or K Horns

[LARRY]

Islander,

Dana Moore designed the Jamboree and is located in Washington, Below is the name of his company and email address.

Soniphase.com,,......email@soniphase.com

Larry

[Islander]

Thanks, Larry! I had his name, but could find no way to contact him.

[Pete H]

Is there anyone who builds Jamborees for sale

I do.

Greg

I'm assuming that you have built the Jamboree's and if I'm not mistaken, I have read through some of the threads. So what direction do you think I should go? I'm really leaning to the Jamboree's and building the bass bins and then using one of the crazy round horns that I've seen in other posts. I really want to keep the finish Black and Copper as I love the look of the RF speakers and have some ideas on how to bring that look out on this build.

You can't go wrong with any of them as far as sound goes. I prefer my Jamborees over my Klipsch Jubilees, but they are both awesome. The MWM's are huge and huge sounding. I think they really need the right room to shine. Jamborees or Jubilees would be more flexible. The best sounding speakers I own are my modified Khorns.

I'll be interested to see what you do with the aesthetics, please post photos when you build them.

Greg

What did you use for the drivers, horns and what crossover worked best in your Jamborees?

Pete

[greg928gts]

What did you use for the drivers, horns and what crossover worked best in your Jamborees?

Pete

I've set them up several different ways. I first tried them with stock Khorn tops with several stock passive networks, including Cornwall networks. All with good results, but not perfect.

Next, I replaced the Jubilee bass bins with the Jamborees using the EV DX38, K402/K69 horns. I actually did this test two times, each time with a friend to help me move the speakers and help evaluate. Everything the same, only changing the bass bins, the Jamborees were the clear winner both times.

Then, I set them up with the Fc260 horn, BMS 4592 drivers, Beyma CP-25 and a custom passive network that I built, crossed at 600Hz and 6000Hz, first order, but built like the ALK Universal networks. That system sounded ok, but there were issues with the mid-bass and that crossover point at 600Hz.

The last thing I did, just a couple of weeks ago, is set them up with the FC260 horn, BMS 4592 drivers, Beyma CP-25 and used the EV DX38 to cross between the bass bins and the mid horns, and the passive networks to cross between the mid horn and the tweeters at 6000Hz. I used at least a dozen different presets programmed into the EV and I was able to switch instantaneously from one to another to hear different crossover points and slopes between the bass bins and the mids. This was very ear-opening for me. I found that I preferred lower crossover points, and gentler slopes. I had to move everything out of the living room and I haven't gotten back to this yet in my shop, but I want to get everything set back up in my shop and play around with this some more.

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I don't like the sound of bass bins crossed up higher than 400Hz, and actually would prefer them crossed lower. It's got me thinking about a three-way system that uses a bass bin that takes care of very low frequencies, a mid-bass horn and a high horn.

I don't know what to say about the gentle slope versus steep slope thing. I clearly liked the gentler slopes better during that last test session. The EV is a great tool for figuring this stuff out.

Greg

[mark1101]

This is some really good info. You have tried lots of different combinations. This is quite helpful info.

Just to add a couple of comments, I found I liked steeper slopes in passives and gentler slopes in actives like the EV DX38 where there was time alignment. Gentler slopes in passives sounded harsh at loud volumes due to mis-alignment. Fundamental Klipsch issue.

I was involved in a test scenario where we varied the crossover frequency between the bass bin and HF horn in a 2-way system. This was a confusing test for me based on different types of music. When there was just instrumentals I preferred a higher crossover, but with voices a lower crossover. There were a few of us and we all pretty much agreed that keeping the vocals mostly in the HF horn sounded best.

I'm surprised you don't prefer the 402.

I have been extremely happy with the setup in my avatar and custom ALK ESN passives at 500hz. I may never make a nother change. The only one I have considered is adding the midbass module and having a 3-way MCM system with TAD 4002 drivers I currently have on my 402 horns. I love the 402s.

I would love a pair of Jubs. But they would be in addition.......not any sort of replacement.

[greg928gts]

I'm not using any time alignment when doing this testing with the EV. I'm trying to duplicate as closely as possible what a passive network would sound like.

I would probably like the 402 a lot more with a higher quality driver than the K69. For my most serious music listening, I have a fundamental problem with using an EQ, which is of course required for CD horns. I've also gotten so used to three-way systems with a tweeter covering the high end, I don't know if I can get used to a two-way system. I like having some control over the tweeter attenuation to balance the system.

Greg

[Coytee]

I don't know if I can get used to a two-way system

Perhaps Mark will expound on this comment but... I seem to remember him once saying something almost exactly like that. I think he might have however, also inserted the word "3 way Heritage sound" in there...(don't remember). I've always looked for a good chance to give Mark some grief for "coming around" to a 2-way but have never found the right circumstance.

Don't you have a TAD 4002 driver?? Piece of cake to swap it out & give a listen, although it would be in mono.

[greg928gts]

Don't you have a TAD 4002 driver?? Piece of cake to swap it out & give a listen, although it would be in mono.

Yes, I have a 4002 and a 4003. I'd need EQ curves for them.

I'd also need more than 24 hours in each day for a while.

Greg

[Pete H]

I'm glad I have this forum for advice on what to use because when it comes to crossovers and the electronics end of it I don't know what I don't know. Does anyone know of a good reference manual or software program on speaker building (the electronics part), and crossover design and building? It's something that I would like to start educating myself on now.

[mark1101]

I had always been a true blue 3-way guy until I got a hold of the TAD 4002 drivers. They make all the difference in a system. Now, I see absolutely no reason to have a 3-way system. I use an RTA room measurement system and the TADs are capable of playing flat to above 19K. In fact, I have them EQ'd down because they were too hot up top. I A/B test with my lascalas and there is nothing lost in the 2-way with the TADs. It sounds better.

I had a pair of K69s on the same 402 horns I have the TADs on now. I know what Greg is saying. When I had that setup, I rigged up a tweeter and ran 3-way, just like he is saying. I still have all that equipment but it's been on the shelf since I got my TADs. I could not be satisfied with the K69 in 2-way at the time. Since then however, Roy D. has updated the EQ spec for those drivers and they sound much much better now. When used properly on the 402 horn and with Jub bass bins they are actually hard to beat as an overall speaker system. Still the TADs are in a different class.

Once I got the TADs all the equipment swapping, blind purchases, and "reaching" / "searching".........that all went away. It simply stopped, and that is not like me. The bottom line was that change is still the single biggest improvement I have ever made to my system. Those drivers have given me more listening pleasure than any single piece of equipment I have ever purchased.

A more accurate qualification of that would be that the combination of the K402 horn and TAD 4002 drivers eclipses anything I have ever purchased or changed before, and like I posted earlier I may never change my speakers again. I'm lucky to have the room to fit the MWM bass bins.

I have the simplest of setups with 2-way fully horn loaded and a simple ALK 500hz. ESN designed for exactly what I have........Then there's the MacIntosh stuff that finishes the job. As Ron Cornelius often mentions the word "digiphobia"...........I believe I have it. There is nothing digital in my system except source equipment.....and NO subwoofers except in my HT. My MWMs are flat to around 30Hz in my room.

I know several people with the TAD 4002 drivers and I don't believe any of them use 3-way.

[greg928gts]

Sounds like a great system Mark, I'd like to hear it some day.

I'll probably try my TAD's sometime, but they're just too expensive to consider for a new speaker design. Now that I've become a Beyma dealer, I'm looking forward to trying the CP750ND. It looks like an impressive driver for the $, and like the TAD 4002's, it opens up a lot of design possibilities. I'm searching for a way to improve on the Khorn performance, which to my way of thinking means doing it without EQ. The V-Trac horn upgrade, along with the other component upgrades makes a huge difference in quality of sound from the Khorn, while still maintaining the basic character of the speaker. Like the original Khorn, these upgrades do not depend on EQ for their performance.

Greg

[mark1101]

I can understand not wanting to use an EQ or incorporating a design that requires one. No issue there. I always used EQs with my Heritage speakers since I was a kid to help poor recordings, boost top end, etc. So it has been natural for me to still use one (but analog only for me right now). The funny thing is that growing up in the 70s all my friends had EQs in their systems with their Heritage speakers as well. It seemed to be a going thing way back then and I just always stuck with it.

Another comment that I should make is that I still love the Heritage sound and will always. In the same room as my Mac / Avatar setup I have lacalas, cornwalls, and heresys on second and third systems using various rebuilt / enhanced vintage HH Scott and MacIntosh amps (w/ Peach). Everything is connected and working and I still play the old equipment regularly and still enjoy it. But I think the forum members and others who have gotten into the design and building of the wooden Tractrix horns are right on the money for upgrades of the old Heritage. I heard a couple of different ones and they are definitely spectacular. Those horns, and of course the famous ALK ESNs and his other networks.....those together bring things up to date quite a lot in my opinion. Well worth it if you intend to stick with Heritage.

[seti]

When I was at Marks it was very cool getting to listen to multiple Heritage speakers and then switch to the big mwm 402 and tad. They sound as big as they look. They also have some room to breathe in there.