jcmusic Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 To the guys who have the V-Tracs installed in their systems, Please tell me how far apart your speakers are? Do you use a center channel and or a sub? How is the imaging and soundstage at the current distance you have your speakers? Thanks. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Mine are on a 22' wall and the room is 16' deep and I sit about 12' back to listen. No center channel and no sub. Imaging is excellent, soundstage is narrow but deep. If I had less crap in the living room, including less of a cabinet between the speakers on that wall, I think the soundstage would open up. I wonder sometimes, if I had it to do over again, if I'd put them at 20' wide and if that would help imaging and soundstage even more. My experience with Khorns tells me more and more every day that they are the most room-dependent speaker there is, but I love the way they load and excite the room. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 It's easy to think that until you start playing with different speakers in different rooms, and then you realize that all speakers are the most room-dependent speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 It's easy to think that until you start playing with different speakers in different rooms, and then you realize that all speakers are the most room-dependent speaker. Ah! A Fundamental Truth and so well put Dean! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 Dean you have a PM!!! Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Responded. I have a question about the horn: People who have built these horns for a 2" exit driver (using Edgar's equations) end up with horns that appear to be considerably taller. I was wondering what in the way of performance was sacrificed in order to get these into the Klipschorn top-hat section without modification? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Responded. I have a question about the horn: People who have built these horns for a 2" exit driver (using Edgar's equations) end up with horns that appear to be considerably taller. I was wondering what in the way of performance was sacrificed in order to get these into the Klipschorn top-hat section without modification? Dean, I believe the typical rule of thumb for "Edgars" is 2:1 WxH, however the wider horns of 3:1 still share the same area of expansion for the same given frequency horn. I imagine there may be some effect on polars, however not sure how much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Dean, I believe the typical rule of thumb for "Edgars" is 2:1 WxH, however the wider horns of 3:1 still share the same area of expansion for the same given frequency horn. I imagine there may be some effect on polars, however not sure how much. All things being equal: The 3:1 horn would loose polar control at a higher frequency than the 2:1 horn due to it's smaller vertical dimension but will have horizontal polar control to a lower frequency due to it's larger horizontal dimension than the 2:1 horn. mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Responded. I have a question about the horn: People who have built these horns for a 2" exit driver (using Edgar's equations) end up with horns that appear to be considerably taller. I was wondering what in the way of performance was sacrificed in order to get these into the Klipschorn top-hat section without modification? The mouth dimensions of the Volti Audio Fc260 horn (used in the V-Trac) are 23" x 9-1/2". We'll have to do a double blind test with a 22" x 11" horn to see who can hear the polar differences! [] We'll have a third setup of a BMS 4592 driver with no horn, which of course everyone will be able to hear a difference with, but it will illustrate how little affect the horn is actually having on sound quality once you get into the larger format, high quality driver, in a living room, with relatively low power systems. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Sorry for the late response Dean, I just saw your post. As far as I can tell none!!! All I hear is a big improvement in sound quality!!! Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmi Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 This is a little off subject, but it won't stop me from posting! I built 1 inch horns with a 2:1 ratio for my Khorns and they sound really good compared to the stock K400 horn. They are a bit taller than the ALK horn. I'm in the process of building a 2:1 horn for a 2 inch driver which is going to be huge compared to the V-Trac,( 12.75 tall by 25.5 wide by 19.25 deep) but of course won't fit in a conventional K-Horn top hat. I would be curious to do a comparison on both the 1 inch and 2 inch 2;1 ratio horns to other ratio horns to see if there really is a difference in sound in real world listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 I think one of the main reasons the Edgar ratio was 2:1 was that it exhibited the smoothest acoustical impedance curve. Going to a much higher ratio will tend to give you some mouth reflections and a resulting peak in impedance. Being just slightly off is not likely to make much difference at all. -Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Sorry for the late response Dean, I just saw your post. As far as I can tell none!!! All I hear is a big improvement in sound quality!!! Jay Well then I have a couple questions for your answer. 1) Was it the Horn or Driver that made the majority improvement? 2) Would the improvement being even greater if the formula was followed? In my honest opinion the majority of the improvement is in the driver. The Improvement being especially noticeable when you lean on the volume and I mean it is stunning... at normal (sane) listening levels I find the difference to be negligible compared to my ALK Trachorn setup. But to me the improvement is a dual edged sword. Because it sounds so darn good when you lean on it you tend to do it more.... then your ears start paying the price RING RING. But them I'm not one to have great self control LOL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 Hey old friend!!! I can not be sure since I didn't try the drivers without the horns!!! I just put them together and went from there!!! As for the leaning on them part, I agree they do sound better when you get after them but, they also sound alot better than my sock setup!!! Even at low and moderate levels. I am listening for the most part between 85-100db depending on what it is and my mood!!! Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Oh sure they do sound better then the stock K-400 but so does the stock ALK trachorn with the stock Klipsch driver once you get the levels dialed in properly. Of course this requires an adjustable after markter cross over. I'm not comparing stock to the the 2" V-Trac setup. I'm comparing a well tuned ALK trachorn with stock Klipsch driver with excellent crossovers...In fact IMHO much better then the standard fair ALK universal crossovers. What I want to do is redesign my Crossovers for a 600 HZ crossover point and then try some better 1" drivers behind my Trachorns. I bet the results are very similar to the V-Trac BMS driver. I even have a BMS driver in mind. But available time and $ is always the enemy of these projects with me. The stock 400HZ crossover point is the big problem with upgrading the driver in the 1" arena.... The Altec drivers sound like dung reaching that low in fact I think the stock klipsch driver sounds better then any Altec at those frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Oh sure they do sound better then the stock K-400 but so does the stock ALK trachorn with the stock Klipsch driver once you get the levels dialed in properly. Of course this requires an adjustable after markter cross over. I'm not comparing stock to the the 2" V-Trac setup. I'm comparing a well tuned ALK trachorn with stock Klipsch driver with excellent crossovers...In fact IMHO much better then the standard fair ALK universal crossovers. What I want to do is redesign my Crossovers for a 600 HZ crossover point and then try some better 1" drivers behind my Trachorns. I bet the results are very similar to the V-Trac BMS driver. I even have a BMS driver in mind. But available time and $ is always the enemy of these projects with me. The stock 400HZ crossover point is the big problem with upgrading the driver in the 1" arena.... The Altec drivers sound like dung reaching that low in fact I think the stock klipsch driver sounds better then any Altec at those frequencies. Well old friend you would more about that than I would, so I'll take your word for it and hope you get around to redesigning your xovers to your liking!!! For me it just made sense to upgrade to the V-Tracs, I didn't already have the Trachorns but, did have the xovers and the cash!!! Once I heard the demos I was done for!!! I am happy with what I am hearing these days, right now I am fact gathering for a dedicated music room. You wouldn't have any ideas for that now would you? You know like room dimensions and what not??? Or what not to do ???Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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