Empire 208 Turntable - anyone using one?

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Look what the cat dragged in, an Empire 208 TT. Kind of cool table from the early 60's. I am going to make a new plinth. The stock walnut plinth is actually in really nice shape, so I will store that and the original Empire arm. I have an extra SME IV arm to use on it. I had it mounted on a Technics SL1210, but I am now using a Sumiko MMT and I like being able to swap out headshells and carts really quickly.

I have been researching the Empires and there are some pretty nice mods that people are doing to these. I want to design a plinth by sandwiching wood and rubber to make a base like the SL1210, one that will deaden vibrations.

Here is a photo of the Empire:

[tigerwoodKhorns]

another one

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Top of the empire

[tigerwoodKhorns]

zoom out a little

[tigerwoodKhorns]

zoom out a little more

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Zoom out all the way...it came with a few "accessories", about 850 accessories to be more exact

[USNRET]

Zoom out all the way...it came with a few "accessories", about 850 accessories to be more exact

Now you're just bragging! Nice!

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Zoom out all the way...it came with a few "accessories", about 850 accessories to be more exact

Now you're just bragging! Nice!

Gotta put this in perspective. I am 40 years old and I told my wife that my midlife crisis consists of me doing what I did as a teenager, collecting a bunch of records. She is happy that a bunch of boxes of old records amuses me so much. No sports car or 20 year old girlfriend for me, just a bunch of records and turntables.

OK - so nobody out there in Klipsch-land has an Empire Turntable?

[seti]

WOWEEE NICE SCORE !

[thebes]

Well technically mine is a 398, and I think technically yours is too

since it came with the arm. Not sure about all that though.

I'm running mine with a Ortofon RS 212 arm. I found the stock arm a bit dull. Don't lose the arm though there's a litle attachment headshell thingy that's virtually unobtainable.

The real pita for me with this table was to get the speed dead on, and it took trying 3 belts to do so. What you might consider a speed control is primarily a pitch control, so if your sensitive to platter speed, put a strobe on it at see what you get. Also use a drop or two of synthetic(Mobil 1) motor oil in the well, after cleaning out all the old oil.

Some people say the table sound better with the belt cover off and I do leave mine off but haven't really noticed a difference. Some people dampen the platter but I don't get any ringing at all.

You may get some slight rumble but it's really not that noticable

With the Ortofon arm it's a very lively table and I like the energy it imparts to the music. It's the best of the tables I've had in my own house.

I had a Rega RB300 on it for a short while but liked the Ortofon better. I've run it with Ortofon OM 30 and 40 cart's and currently use a Zu modified Denon 103.

Recently I put it up on wine bungs (do a search on that, and my original thread on the table) and I like the difference.

I'm really convinced that a heavy plinth is the way to go, despite what the online gurus are saying. If you look closely at eh underside of teh table there is a large gapin the plinth. I feel that this was done deliberately by the designers to use the case as some sort of sound box.

I run mine with the bottom cover off also.

To other matters. That Nitty Gritty is a very useful tool. If the pump breaks, don't despair, mine busted twice, so has Larry's, so I just use a spray bottle and go from there. My own feeling is to stay away from cleaners that have alcohol in them.

I'm sure if you find some MOFI's in those boxes of records you will send some to me as a reward for my sage advice.

[thebes]

Here's a link to the whole motor speed thing. HarryO helped me through a contact of his to finally get me the right belt. I'll see if I can track down that info for you.

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/109045.aspx?PageIndex=2

[thebes]

The belt you should get is FRX 38.8 . Check your speed first, though.

http://www.vintage-electronics.cc/vprbbelts.html

[IB Slammin]

Zoom out all the way...it came with a few "accessories", about 850 accessories to be more exact

Now you're just bragging! Nice!

Gotta put this in perspective. I am 40 years old and I told my wife that my midlife crisis consists of me doing what I did as a teenager, collecting a bunch of records. She is happy that a bunch of boxes of old records amuses me so much. No sports car or 20 year old girlfriend for me, just a bunch of records and turntables.

OK - so nobody out there in Klipsch-land has an Empire Turntable?

Well kind of........[:'(]

[seti]

Well kind of........[:'(]

Hey lets get that puppy restored.

Got any records ?

[IB Slammin]

Well kind of........[:'(]

Hey lets get that puppy restored.

Got any records ?

Well, I won the state 100 in 1968..... but set no record.

Don't give me a hard time. The old 398 Troubadour was retired many years ago. However, I did get off on it's 13lb platter and the washing machine size motor. (back in the day)

Just glad you didn't notice the Marantz Mod 15's behind the Empire. Saul's first SS power amp. Two 60wpc mono blocks, bolted together behind a face plate. I also have the Mod 14. One of the Mod 15 mono blocks (no face plate) used with the Marantz 7T preamp center channel output. Ah, the good old days of centers. I want to believe that Saul Marantz built those amps with PWK in mind.......Khorn flanks and LaS center.

Sorry, I thought it was 1969 for a moment and didn't mean to get off track or hijack.

tc

[tigerwoodKhorns]

To other matters. That Nitty Gritty is a very useful tool. If the pump breaks, don't despair, mine busted twice, so has Larry's, so I just use a spray bottle and go from there. My own feeling is to stay away from cleaners that have alcohol in them.

Marty,

I will have several questions about the Empire TT later. This will probably be a very long thread and thanks for the information.

As far as the Nitty Gritty. I had a VPI 16.5 and did not like it. It did not seem to make the job easy and I prefer steam cleaning.

But, the Nitty Gritty with the pump is so easy and efficient. Just plop the record on and give it several squirts, then flip the switch to vacuum and then flip over and repeat. But for really noisey records, the steam cleaner and disc doctor brushes are still the way to go.

As far as the pump, what a cheap POS! Mine was leaking and I discovered that the base was leaking. They actually make the pump out of a head from a spray bottle and put it inside of the reservoir using liquid nails. I was ready to buy a new one for $65 and decided to have a look at the pump. I realized that I could not fix it because the pump makes the bottom of the reservoir flex and eventually crack and if I siliconed it it would eventually fail again. And so will a new $65 pump.

I tore the reservoir apart and took the pump head out. Then I searched the house until I found a bottle that the head fit on and you can see in the photo that it is working just fine. I want to cut out a piece of wood or plastic with a hole that two bottles will fit into. I will need to reinforce the bottom of the base but that will be easy with a piece of aluminum or wood.

I have my eye on a bottle of fancy conditioner that my wife has that should work well when she is done with it. Otherwise, I need to find pump heads that are heavy duty enough for the job and screw onto a plastic bottle, or cheap and easily replaceable. I also need to get some new clear plastic tubing.

Last thing is the tray. Mine is missing but I am using an old plastic plate that works well. I want to raise the bottom about 1" more and use a deeper catch tray. Again, pretty easy mod. I will probably build a new wood box for it and veneer it when I do my K Horns (I have a bunch of extra ebony striped veneer).

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Here is a close up of the Nitty Gritty Pump mechanism...nice huh? That is teh exact pump that is mounted inside of the reservoir.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Here is the inside of the reservoir. The right is the fill hole and the left is the bottom of the rod attached to the black plastic pump handle. it is liquid nailed to the top of the spray bottle pump head.

FYI - all of the hoses came from the inside of the nitty gritty. If you try this, all you need to be up and running it a bottle that will fit the head.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I'm running mine with a Ortofon RS 212 arm. I found the stock arm a bit dull. Don't lose the arm though there's a litle attachment headshell thingy that's virtually unobtainable.

The real pita for me with this table was to get the speed dead on, and it took trying 3 belts to do so. What you might consider a speed control is primarily a pitch control, so if your sensitive to platter speed, put a strobe on it at see what you get. Also use a drop or two of synthetic(Mobil 1) motor oil in the well, after cleaning out all the old oil.

Some people say the table sound better with the belt cover off and I do leave mine off but haven't really noticed a difference. Some people dampen the platter but I don't get any ringing at all.

You may get some slight rumble but it's really not that noticable

With the Ortofon arm it's a very lively table and I like the energy it imparts to the music. It's the best of the tables I've had in my own house.

I had a Rega RB300 on it for a short while but liked the Ortofon better. I've run it with Ortofon OM 30 and 40 cart's and currently use a Zu modified Denon 103.

Recently I put it up on wine bungs (do a search on that, and my original thread on the table) and I like the difference.

I'm really convinced that a heavy plinth is the way to go, despite what the online gurus are saying. If you look closely at eh underside of teh table there is a large gapin the plinth. I feel that this was done deliberately by the designers to use the case as some sort of sound box.

I run mine with the bottom cover off also.

Marty,

I have read that a heavy plinth helps this table. Are there people saying otherwise?

You are saying that you run yours with the bottom cover off which suggests that you are not using a heavy plinth. Did you mean to say that you are not convinced that a heavy plinth will help this table?

Thanks,

Chris

[thebes]

Sorry Chris, my typing is terrible.

Yes I meant to say that I don't necessarily agree with the folks advocating a heavy plinth. I did try damping with some clay insulation just for the heck of it and didn't notice any difference and by now most of the clay has fallen off. I'd also be leery of damping the platter because I suspect it would easy to end up with a slightly lopsided platter which over time would hurt the bearing.

Mine is just open on the bottom. I've tried it with original feet, air conditioning vibration insulators and the bungs, and like the bungs the best.

I'm pretty sure the designers left a big hole in the metal plinth for a reason It could have been to keep the motor cool, but I doubt it.

As to the Nitty Gritty, pretty cool substitute. I'll have to make up something similar. By the way the cleaning pads do wear out over time and can be purchased from Nitty Gritty. Wipe them before you begin a cleaning session, they do get dirty. Also, don't worry about a large water tray. You really don't generate a lot of water.