Furman M8LX

[The Dude]

Anyone ever use one of these, I know they are discontinued but theres some new ones on the bay for 85.00 shipped. Thought about picking one up, since this is what lots recommend for my ground issues.

duder

[Rich_Guy]

Here's another new one with a "buy it now" price of $51.99 free shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RACK-MOUNT-POWER-CONDITIONER-FURMAN-M-8X-BEST-PRICE_W0QQitemZ180464827029QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a048aba95

Edit, I saw later this is the M-8X and not the LX

[The Dude]

Heck I dont need the lights. Thats not a bad deal. Thanks for the heads up. duder Do I still need a surge protector with these.

[wuzzzer]

No. Click on the pic and it shows its features: Noise filter, surge protect, etc.

[The Dude]

Thanks Wuzzer, I think for 50.00 bucks or so Its better than what I have. Now I just need to find a new disc drive for my comp, and find out why my driver for the behringer fca202 quit working. duder

[wuzzzer]

I bought the APC filter listed in my sig. on eBay for around $50 I believe and it was originally $200. I have all my components except my Emotiva amp plugged into it. It has a display showing how much power that my components are drawing up to the maximum that the APC can handle. 0-20-40-60-80-100%. With my HDTV, PS3, receiver and DVR all turned on it has never gone above the 40% indicator.

[The Dude]

are you not supposed to plug in the power amp.

[Rich_Guy]

Emotiva recommends against plugging the power amp into a surge protector or power conditioner as it can limit the power available at instantaneous high current peak points. Emotiva recommends plugging their amps directly into the wall.

Some power conditioners have special high current outlets which are designed for amps that won't limit the power to the amp. Some power conditioners even claim to boost the power available to amps at their high current outlets.

[westom]

By learning what is inside a line conditioner, well, many do not learn this. Much of what that line conditioner might accomplish exists equally on both sides of that conditioner. Yes, appliance connected elsewhere in the room on the same power circuit obtain same improvements.

Many will only recommend what they were told to believe. Not learn what that line conditioner really does. With so much snake oil advocated as miracle solutions, a power amp company eliminates 'problems created by myths' by simply recommending what you cited. Trying to explain this to so many already ordered to believe “Furman, et al” myths is difficult if not impossible.

Most of what the Furman claims subjectively is also 'near zero'. But when the claims are made subjectively, a majority will assume it is 100%. A routine propaganda technique that works so well among those who do not ask damning questions and do not demand numbers.

[The Dude]

Well I have received the furman today and thought it does not seem to get rid of the rfi/emi on the system as I thought it would. However the system doesn't pop when I turn on the lights, I still need to check the wash machine but if I don't blow anymore tweeters it is worth the 50.00.

[The Dude]

Thats funny all of a sudden my tweeters have came back one still sounds weak but sounds like its there. anyone know what is up with this.

duder

[The Dude]

after running the wash machine, and still getting the spikes, rfis, emi, etc etc. I feel that this thing is worthless. I am curios to try the one Wuzzer uses APC C10 Power Filter but should I find out if there is something else.

duder

[Don Richard]

Take a look at these:

http://www.surgex.com/

[wuzzzer]

after running the wash machine, and still getting the spikes, rfis, emi, etc etc. I feel that this thing is worthless. I am curios to try the one Wuzzer uses APC C10 Power Filter but should I find out if there is something else.
duder

Fortunately I've never experiences the above problems that you mentioned. I bought the APC pretty much to be a surge protector.

[westom]

after running the wash machine, and still getting the spikes, rfis, emi, etc etc. I feel that this thing is worthless.

You only had to view its numeric specs to see that. An overwhelming majority will recommend only on the subjective sales claims. Will ignore numbers. Will *know* it must be better only because they changed the name from surge protector to line condition. Put it into a fancier case and charged more money.

Where are spec numbers that said it would do what others feel it must do? Notice how so many recommended such soluton and nobody posted spec numbers. No numbers is the first indication of myths and lies.

Where are the relevant spec numbers for the APC power filter? How to keep the most informed from posting? Provide no numbers. Then only those with the least knowledge can post.

[artto]

Well I have received the furman today and thought it does not seem to get rid of the rfi/emi on the system as I thought it would. However the system doesn't pop when I turn on the lights, I still need to check the wash machine but if I don't blow anymore tweeters it is worth the 50.00.

duder, I think you might be looking for the wrong solution to your problem. Equipment like "line conditioners" (such as the Furman you refer to) will not get rid of RFI/EMI . RFI is "air bourne" and usually has to do with bad/improper/inadequate shielding and is better corrected at the source (ie: using RFI filtered light dimmers). For EMI you need something like a contant voltage transformer to isolate the power. And any grounding problems cannot be solved with a line conditioner either. Ideally, you would have a separate circuit for your A/V HT setup. AND this circuit would have its own isolated ground, outside, connected to a 3-4 foot metal rod driven into the ground. Only your power source (ie: Furman) should be grounded to the power outlet (with or without an isolated ground). Everything else should have its ground "floated" by disconnecting or isolating the third ground pin on plug with an adaptor. The only exception to this would be a record turntable which usually requires a separate ground wire from the tonearm and chassis to the preamp.

[The Dude]

My main concern that drew me to the furman was when I would listen to the system, anything on that circuit would cause a pop. the wash machine especially, which I think might have damaged my tweets. So I guess I was looking at for mainly a surge protection. But it seems to be else were. I did have the gentleman from the warranty department of my home over this week and he did agree that there was other issues with the whole electrical system since when I plug something in downstairs in a outlet the outlet sparks, also I know I have some major power lines off in the distance, this is most likely the problem with my rfi. If I have my laptop plugged into a outlet down stairs and run a output to my ht receiver as a source I get mad rfis.

thanks for all the inputs, once the electricians are out I will consider Isolating the ground on that circuit with its own. Luckily I have a few buddys that are electricians, that can help me with this.

[The Dude]

Also I forgot to add that I have tried 3-4 different interconnects from the sources, to the pre, and pre to amp. Nothing seem to make a change in the rfis, the emis only seems to be through the record player.

[westom]

My main concern that drew me to the furman was when I would listen to the system, anything on that circuit would cause a pop. the wash machine especially, which I think might have damaged my tweets. So I guess I was looking at for mainly a surge protection.

View those Furman specs. Show me numbers that list each type of surge and protection from that surge. It does not. Furmans are recommended by those who know only because others told them to believe. With numbers, what becomes obvious? To be useful, the Furman must do more than what is already inside electronics. Its numbers say it does less. You know same. Now learn why that should be obvious. Listen first and foremost to those spec numbers – that do not claim to do anything others have said.

Spike only damages your speakers when the amplifier outputs too much power. The amplifier limits that power - no matter how big the noise transient or surge. Speakers are only at risk if the amp is too big. Don't let the 'pain' of a sound tell you anything. Only the numbers - defined in the amp specs - define a threat.

Your problem is not RFI. Any and every amp must be designed so that nearby 50,000 watt AM radio stations do not cause RFI. Your washing machine does not and cannot output that type of power. How often are portable AM radio signals completely wiped out by that washing machine noise? AM radios are designed to be sensitive to that radio wave. Amp is designed to not respond to RFI. If RFI exists, the spike completely eliminated AM radio during the spike.

Your only useful posts shows how to learn what you have rather than tell you what to believe. A majority will only post what they were told to believe – called hearsay.

Defective amp filtering is not making noise irrelevant. Maybe the amp’s power supply is defectively designed. Maybe from /inside some other connection (even if that other device is not powered on). But that noise is incoming on wires. And no surge protector (ie the Furman) even claims to do filtering that should already exist in the electronics.

How to solve that noise - assuming you don't dispose of a weak design. Address the noise at its source. Solutions include snubbers. Or common mode filters on the washer’s power line. Your amp (or some attached electronics) should have made that noise irrelevant. To fix a defective design, go to the reason for the noise.

RFI/EMI/EMC conferences are full of bald headed men. Why? Because the problem attracts those type of genetics? Of course not. Solving EMI/RFI/EMC problems is an art that attracts people who make it a life long challenge. The majority who hype magic box solutions really have not a clue. Even the RFI nonsense is just that. Nonsense. If RFI exists, then the portable AM radio tuned to a local station hears that washing machine every time. Only those who know by first learning will suggest that.

Furman is a surge protector hyped with a new name - 'line conditioner'. Obscene profits because a majority will recommend it only on its new name. It does not even claim effective surge protection. But then profits – not protection – were its purpose.

Due to some inferior internal design, your solution begins by going elsewhere - eliminating noise at its source. I began learning this stuff by starting with non-polarized capacitors. You can do same. And using test equipment such as AM (or long wave) radios. Your solution is because something in that electronics is defective. Your solution is to reduce noise at each source. Household wiring does not create the problem. But that wild speculation is also promoted as a solution.

[artto]

My main concern that drew me to the furman was when I would listen to the system, anything on that circuit would cause a pop. the wash machine especially, which I think might have damaged my tweets. So I guess I was looking at for mainly a surge protection. But it seems to be else were. I did have the gentleman from the warranty department of my home over this week and he did agree that there was other issues with the whole electrical system since when I plug something in downstairs in a outlet the outlet sparks, also I know I have some major power lines off in the distance, this is most likely the problem with my rfi. If I have my laptop plugged into a outlet down stairs and run a output to my ht receiver as a source I get mad rfis.

thanks for all the inputs, once the electricians are out I will consider Isolating the ground on that circuit with its own. Luckily I have a few buddys that are electricians, that can help me with this.

First of all, your washing machine SHOULD be on a completely different circuit, on its own circuit, possibly with the dryer. That in itself should eliminate the popping.

And of course, electrical outlets shouldn't spark when you plug something into them!!!

The power lines off in the distance (how far?) shouldn't be a problem unless you have some shielding issues.

And, computers are notorious for causing RFI and line noise problems. My old Apple II used to literally, null/cancel out my favorite radio station. The roof antenna for the TV and radio tuners was located right above my office desk/computer. The signal was just a little noisy at first, but eventually the signal couldn't even lock in.

I also recently encountered a line noise problem with the computer I use for audio recording/CD mastering. Once again, its one of those ground "isolation" issues. Here, I had to isolate the ground pin on the display monitor, the computer, and the mixer. Even though they were all on the same circuit, plugged into a surge protector with RFI protection, I was getting line noise through the speakers, EVEN WHEN THE MIXER AND COMPUTER WERE TURNED OFF!!! Adding a 3 to 2 plug adaptor to all the electrical cord plugs eliminated the noise. Float those grounds!!