Center Channel Help

[Bohvey]

I'm brand new to the forum and still quite new to home audio... I currently have an Onkyo TX-SR607 receiver and the Energy ACT 6 5.1 setup with a PS3, Xbox 360 and DVD player. I've had this for almost 2 years now and I've never been truly pleased with the sound. The center channel right now is nearly impossible for me to hear dialogue and I've increased the level of the center channel to +8 over the other speakers through the setup options in the receiver.

So why am I on the Klipsch forum? Well Klipsch has been by far the nicest audio I've heard and I'd like to start switching into a Klipsch home theater.

Long story short... what would be a nice center channel that may go well with my current Energy speakers for the time being? I've been leaning toward the RC-52 or something in that price point or less.

Thanks in advance.

[willland]

Bohvey,

Welcome to the froum. I would suggest you at least consider the RC-62. While the RC-52 is fine for most applications, the RC-62 will match better with most Klipsch Ref.speakers(future upgrade to join the madness). With the RC-52, I think you are limited with your upgrades to the RF-52 or RF-62. Anything above that(RB-81,RF-82,) you should get at least the RC-62 to better voice match. With the RF-63/83, the RC-64 is recommended. One good rule is to get the best center channel you can afford. Be patient and save the $$$ to accomplish that goal.

Bill

[jamesV]

Welcome to the forum...

I have to agree with Bill and add, take a look around and listen to the main speakers. Then purchase the matching center for the main speakers that you want to get and over time you can switch out your current speakers with the complete set up.

James

[TxEvo8]

Welcome to the forum! I have to agree with James, find what mains that you want, and get the matching center. You almost have to look at the front three speakers as one single purchase to maximize the return on your investment. Timbre matching your front three speakers is the most important part of a good HT system.

Jim

[twistedcrankcammer]

Bohvey,

As previously mentioned.... Welcome to the madness... Come on in and stay for a while.

I will go further than any of the previous posters here. As far as I am concerned, the two most important speakers with your surround sound system are the center channel and your sub woofer selection.

personally disagree with the theatre in a box matching of centers the industry does, even in the realm of Klipsch.

I own 7 rare versions of a professional Klipsch Cornerhorn, so instead of a smaller "matched" speaker, I have the same speaker for center channel duty.

I bought my parents RF-7s with an RC-7, and found the RC-7 inadequate, so I now have a single RF-7 that was custom reconfigured into a center channel.

My recomendation, is to go over kill on the center channel, scrape up as much money as you can afford, and buy more of a center channel then you ever intend to choose front speakers for that system. I do not believe in ever having to dial back my fronts to here my center, that is just plain dumb in my opinion.

Again... Welcome, and please look arround and join in discussion, or questions on any of the threads.

Roger

[Bohvey]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome.

I've quickly learned how important the center channel is so I don't mind spending extra money on it.

Unfortunately there isn't a Klipsch dealer in my area so I'll have to make a trip to Seattle sometime.

Per your suggestions though I will look into the RC-62 and above to give my self more options as I continue to upgrade the rest of the system.

Thanks again.

[Stolenrs]

Bohvey,

I live about 40 miles north of Seattle and the LRD I go to is Bry's they are the largest Klipsch dealer in the state. They have the complete Reference line that you can audition as well as most of the Heritage equipment, here is a link to there website.

http://www.brysonline.com/appliances.php?url=/_CGI/SEARCH2.HTML?MINOR=AUDIO:SPEAK

Great people there and very helpful with questions.

Good luck, and welcome.

~ross

[Bohvey]

Thanks Stolenrs, I really appreciate the info. I'll be in Seattle the first week of July so I'll stop in if I haven't found anything yet.

I'm currently looking at an RC-35, it's discontinued but the specs look really similar to the RC-62. Any thoughts everyone?

[winchester21]

Center channel- Overkill- Overkill- Overkill- Good idea- Rc 62- Better idea- Rc 64. Then save your $$ and up grade to match- upgrade proof in the reference line. Same with RC7- understanding that you will have to go with7s all around at some point.

If no future plans to go Heritage- but the rc62 at the least-the rc64 for the long term. This stuff has a way of making one get the upgrade bug after purchases.

[BE36]

OVERKILL UPFRONT, OVERKILL UPFRONT.

There is saying about pay at places of employment in up here in the North -- Get it when you walk through the Front Door.

Even in good times big raises are rare.

Why this anololgy?

If you do not start with a matching center channel no amount of annual increases will get you where you want latter.

I have put everying thing under the sun at an Academy, improved it greatly most people thing it sounds fine now, but it still does not match my La Scalas.

(Improvements: New Crossover custom built by a forum member, replacement tweeter from Klipsch, VRD amps and the best tubes avialible)

I totally agree and can confirm the Idea above: Center Channel the same as or made from the same components as Left and Right is the way to go!

Some Studio Engineers utilize the Center Channel almost exclusivly to create the Center Imaging for Voice etc.

On these disks any weakness in the center channel is brutally exposed when panning off the center of the screen.

Examples: When an actor starts on left side of room, Left Channel, and walks to the center of the room, image needs to pan with the Actor from left to center of the room. Cars moving across the screen etc.

The Engineer is left with one of two basic choices

1) Tappering off the Left Channel and ramping up the Center

2) Tappering off the Left Channel and ramping up the Right
Channel:

(Third possibility is a combination of the two above if he is into moving three things at once instead of just two or if the sound goes from the left side all the way to right side and passes through the center on the way. Even the sound goes from far left to far right the Enginer still could skip the Center Channel - Alan Parsons does this many times on the Dark Side of the Moon)

If the Engineer uses option one when panning sounds it gets really, really, ugly if the Center Channel does not match exactly.

Center Channel on average gets the most sounds directed to it and is more important then Right and Left channel for HT.

[Olorin]

Think "forklift upgrade." Sell your Energy gear and buy a matched setup, or save up your money, buy a matched setup, and recoup what you can by selling off the Energy gear. The transitional period is a pain.

Here's another thought -- I don't know about your area, but my local Craigslist sees 5.1 Synergy systems with some regularity, and Reference systems with somewhat less frequency, but it does happen. That's got to be nearly impossible to beat from a bang/buck perspective.

Welcome to the madness!

[Bohvey]

It's been a good 6 months but I wanted to give an update on my progress. I did get the RC-64. I also got the RF-63's and RS-62's.

I am STILL not getting dialogue as clear and crisply as I hoped. Even the dealer that sold me the RC-64 admitted that it was hard to beat that Center Channel and they primarily sold Definitive Technology. I guess in my mind I thought that surely this would solve all of my movie viewing woes where action was drowning out dialogue but no. I still have that same problem. I don't want to turn the center channel up because then during the action sequences if something passes from left to right or vice versa you can really hear the difference.

Thanks for all of your comments and advice. Now I've got to figure out how to get these awesome new speakers tuned in so that I get the surround sound experience I'm wanting. I think I'll start a new thread concerning this though.

[willland]

Bohvey,

Congratulations on the awesome new setup.

I can just about guarantee your RC-64 is not the culprit. It appears that maybe the center channel signal from the Onkyo TX-SR607 might be your problem. You have tried a very mediocre Energy center channel and probably the best center Klipsch has ever produced and the same issue applies. Is the Onkyo still under warranty? Check all your connections and speaker wires from your receiver terminals to the RC-64 terminals.

Another note, while the Onkyo TX-SR607 is a nice entry/mid level receiver, it may not have enough ooomph to handle the job of the RF-63 HT setup.

Bill

[Bohvey]

I thought it may be that the Onkyo couldn't power it all. I did check the wires/connections. I even cut new ends on the speaker cables to ensure it wasn't an issue. I would like to add that my speaker cable is only 14 awg which seems small to me but I can't see that being the issue.

Should I be looking into getting a seperate amp and a power conditioner? I've noticed a lot of guys have the power conditioners. Not sure where I would put it but I definitely want the best for these amazing speakers.

When I ran the Audessey setup with the mic it actually put all the speakers on Full Band. I adjusted them all to 80Hz. I also put the LPF of LFE at 80. Could that have been the wrong move.

Thanks for the quick reply.

[willland]

I would like to add that my speaker cable is only 14 awg which seems small to me but I can't see that being the issue.

All my speaker wire is 14 awg. Not an issue.

Should I be looking into getting a seperate amp?

Unfortunately, your Onkyo TX-SR607 only has preouts for (2) subs so you can't ad an amp unless you upgrade your receiver to at least the 707/708 if you want to stick with Onkyo.

Should I be looking into getting a power conditioner?

As far as power conditioners/surge protectors go, I like having one. I live in Central Florida and lightening strikes and power surges are the norm. Will they protect against a direct lightening strike? Most likely not. But they will help in maintaining consistant voltage to your gear and normal surges and some shut things down when voltage gets too low.

When I ran the Audessey setup with the mic it actually put all the speakers on Full Band. I adjusted them all to 80Hz. I also put the LPF of LFE at 80. Could that have been the wrong move.

I originally had all my speakers set to small but was experimenting one day and changed my RF-63's and RC-64 to large. I think they have a fuller sound set to large but the crossover is still set to 80hz. Keep in mind I do have a 3-channel and 2-channel 200w/ch amps in the mix so there is not strain on my receiver amps at all.

Bill

[Bohvey]

Like the newb I am I spent probably a solid 30 minutes trying to figure out how to set my speakers to "small" or "large". I finally found somewhere that stated, "Full Band" = "Large" and anything else is "small". So to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, you've got your fronts and center set to Full Band and your rears set at 80hz with your LPF of LFE at 80 as well?

I was worried that if my fronts and center were set to full band my receiver wouldn't be able to handle it. I've also read that setting them to "small" is the recommended setup for THX quality sound.

I just want to be able to clearly hear dialogue with action. Whatever the setup I'll be satisfied if I never hear someone say, "What did he say?" ever again. That's like a punch to the gut to have these amazing speakers and someone still complaining that they can't hear what someone is saying.

[twistedcrankcammer]

Bohvey,

All you speakers should be set to small if you have a sub.

14 Ga wire is plenty big enough.

I suspect that your receiver is the culprit as not being adequate.

I assume money is still an issue, so have you considered used seperates?

You could get into a used Adcom GTP-600 pre amp 5 channel surround for arround $100 or so, and an Adcom GFA-7500 for about $400 or so, for a system that would have been $2,200 to $2500 new on the cheap.

JMO.... Roger

[twistedcrankcammer]

Bovey,

A brand new pair of black RF-63 speakers in Garage sale for $1100. You could recoupe part of it by selling your RS-62s if you have room for 4 tower speakers.

Roger

[willland]

Like the newb I am I spent probably a solid 30 minutes trying to figure out how to set my speakers to "small" or "large". I finally found somewhere that stated, "Full Band" = "Large" and anything else is "small". So to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, you've got your fronts and center set to Full Band and your rears set at 80hz with your LPF of LFE at 80 as well?

I was worried that if my fronts and center were set to full band my receiver wouldn't be able to handle it. I've also read that setting them to "small" is the recommended setup for THX quality sound.

This is from my NAD T-773 manual:

"NOTE: You can set subwoofer to "On" even with "Large" front speakers, in which case bass content from any channels set to "Small" will be routed to both the subwoofer and to the front speakers; LFE-channel signal will pass only to the sub. In most subwoofer-equipped systems, setting front speakers to "Small" is usually the better option."

I have my front soundstage set to "large" because after much experimenting, I like the fuller sound better.

With your receiver, it would be best to set all of your speakers to small. I do believe there really could be something wrong with your center channel on your Onkyo.

Bill

[Bohvey]

I know nothing about amps or pre-amps and how to use them in my HT. I'll have to get educated. Is there a book I should pick up to help increase my knowledge base in the HT arena. My plan is to actually build all of this into a dedicated HT room.

I can't afford to run out and get anything new right now and I'm happy with the RS-62 rears.

I'll get behind the Onkyo tonight and start trying out connections and doing some web searches to see if anyone else has run into anything similar with Onkyo.

Thanks for all of the great feedback and helpful advice. I'll keep you all posted on anything I find out.