forte or no forte

[quadklipsh]

hi all,

again my obsession or u may call it love for the FORTE IIs , brings me to state the following question....

Is there any other klipsch that outperforms theFORTES???

is a much better overall sounding speaker and also better looking than these ??????

ah yes considering the similar pricing too.plz..

id love to hear options..

[John Chi-town]

I am a forte II owner as well since 1992, my speakers are absolutelymint/flawless. Yes, there are better sounding speakers in the Klipsch line-up. But when you factor footprint, sound, imaging and detail as well as price the field does become narrower. I have often thought of parting with mine, only if I can find a pair of Chorus II in mint shape in clear oak cabinets. Chorus II does give a better bass response than forte II. However I would put the mid and high as the same as the forte II.

After 20+ years at this game, many pieces have changed but my speakers are the one constant.

[BigCliff]

I have Forte not II and I also have Chorus IIs. The Fortes are my second favorite speaker. I bought them off Craigslist for a bargain price and located 3 blocks from my house. I could have sold them 3 weeks later for a $175 profit.(Paid $325 could have sold for $500) I just did not want to give them up after listening to them. That being said I still believe my Chorus IIs out perform them in all aspects. Give the Chorus IIs enough power and headroom and they will perform outstandingly. My next upgrade over the Chorus's would be some Belles or La Scalas, no corners for K-horns.

Big Cliff

[John Chi-town]

The forte II is completely different than the original forte. Forte II has different midrange horn, and larger passive radiator. I am not putting down the forte just saying that it is a great performer, but completely "different" animal than the forte II.

[quadklipsh]

Chorus II does give a better bass response than forte II.

how????

fortes are 32 hz ,chorus at 39hz,

i seriously doubt if theyd really satisfy me for i listen to RF3s ,rated lows down to 37 hz .

would they go lower ???? and what kind off amplification would be recommended for low to moderate volumes for the chorus .

currently i am hoping to partner them with a quad 303 power amp.rated at 45 watts only . would that be a slouch ???

would chorus need a subwoofer more than a forte ? for regular musik listen?

.......though an improved bass is always welcome, i wouldnt go for a sub with any of these speakers ,i am of the view that a sub usually makes the sound pleasing but then it makes it sound UN-NATURAL too .....

i also think that even the heresys are better off than any reference speakers when it comes to music only,and if one is not into really low bass.......

[BigCliff]

A subwoofer should never sound UNNATURAL if it is set up properly. I use a sub with both my HT set up with the Chorus IIs as mains and my stereo listening with the fortes in front and KG 5.5 in rear. There is a lot to be added with the use of a properly setup subwoofer. As to why the Chorus II's sound better even in the low end, I believe is the 15" woofer and a fuller low end sound. Just my personal opinion listening to both of them.

[skonopa]

A subwoofer should never sound UNNATURAL if it is set up properly.

Exactly! That loud obnoxious "BOOM BOOM BOOM" that some of these cars with "the woofaz" produce is NOT how a properly setup subwoofer is to sound. Basically a good subwoofer should just be a natural extension of the speakers. In the course of normal listening, you don't notice the sub-woofer, but than you turn it off and suddenly, it seems the midrange and bottom end just seems to "collapse", than that is a properly setup subwoofer. I've had friends over at my place thinking they where going to be in for some serious "baassss" where disappointed when I told them to not expect such a thing as that is not what this system was designed and setup for. One time, I temporaritly hooked up my "rock" speakers to test them out when I first got them and I was like "holy cow, these things have some nice bass!". Turned out I forgot to turn off the subwoofer. []

[runninshine]

I was so surprised how good the Forte sounded and how nice the low end is, and when you put them in corners they really dig deep. One thing I've learned it how the size of the room really impacts the sound of speakers and how it plays a huge factor in bass response.

[dtel]

One thing I've learned it how the size of the room really impacts the sound of speakers and how it plays a huge factor in bass response.

Very true, my first Klipsch was a Synergy set, SB-3, SC-1, SS1 and a sub. It was in a 12' X 16' room and was plenty enough and sounded really good.

Added on a room and moved them into a 24' w X 18'd, open to another 16' to the rear. The sound was nothing like before and no matter what I did was not going to work.

The search was on.

[artarama]

Added on a room and moved them into a 24' w X 18'd, open to another 16' to the rear. The sound was nothing like before and no matter what I did was not going to work.

Exactly dtel. The speaker set up needs to fit the size of the listening area. Asking smaller speakers no matter how good to fill a large area is just not going to work. Why do they have monster speakers and lots of them at concerts? Answer: To move a lot of air!

I personally think this aspect is overlooked in a lot of discussions. The size or "displacement" of the speaker should match your listening area or more acurately your listening "volume" (H x L x W).

[garyrc]

Chorus II does give a better bass response than forte II.

how????

fortes are 32 hz ,chorus at 39hz,

i seriously doubt if theyd really satisfy me for i listen to RF3s ,rated lows down to 37 hz .

would they go lower ???? and what kind off amplification would be recommended for low to moderate volumes for the chorus .

currently i am hoping to partner them with a quad 303 power amp.rated at 45 watts only . would that be a slouch ???

would chorus need a subwoofer more than a forte ? for regular musik listen?

.......though an improved bass is always welcome, i wouldnt go for a sub with any of these speakers ,i am of the view that a sub usually makes the sound pleasing but then it makes it sound UN-NATURAL too .....

i also think that even the heresys are better off than any reference speakers when it comes to music only,and if one is not into really low bass.......

The published bass extension is not everything, especially when the
figures are as close as 32, 37, and 39. I don't know about the Chorus
II, but I do know that perceived percussive bass impact can vary
strangely between speakers. Many bass drums, from classical to kick
drums, have a lot of their energy at between 40 and 60 Hz. So do many
timpani strokes. The La Scala, Belle, and La Scala II all have a
higher cut off than the speakers you mention, but can have greater bass
impact, "speed," etc. than many speakers that are speced much lower.
On the other hand, for non-transient deep bass they are not so hot, and
probably need a sub for the infernal and ubiquitous "Bass Machine" that is used in movies today. Bass has many aspects.

I never liked my RSW 15 sub until I started bringing it in at 40 Hz (no higher!). Above that, I found that it muddied up the terrific bass impact of my mains (Klipschorns).

[colterphoto1]

forte II is one of the most even-tempered, best bang-for-the-buck, most output per square inch of floor space, speakers that Klispch ever manufactured.

Most of us prefer the II for the tractrix mid and high horns and the larger 15" passive radiator. I actually traded a pair of Cornwalls even-steven because the forte fit my small home office room better. But you do need to pull them from the wall a bit. I have mine in corners about 2" rear corner of cabinet to side wall.

Michael

[quadklipsh]

garyrc....

my question again ......currently i am hoping to partner chorus with a quad 303 power amp.rated at 45 watts only . would that be a slouch or would that be enough for my 16w x15deep x10h feet room ???

does the watts of class A amps(usually tubes ), behave differently than those of integrated recievers or transistor amps(quad 303 for example)?

30 watts is 30 watts.... right ? whether its a tube amp producing 30 watts to run a pair of monster chorus II speakers or a loser cheap-*** prologic integrated reciever from sony delivering 30 watts too, the output should be the same . so why worry . though sound quality would wary widely,i know

[oldtimer]

Chorus II does give a better bass response than forte II.

how????

fortes are 32 hz ,chorus at 39hz,

i seriously doubt if theyd really satisfy me for i listen to RF3s ,rated lows down to 37 hz .

would they go lower ???? and what kind off amplification would be recommended for low to moderate volumes for the chorus .

currently i am hoping to partner them with a quad 303 power amp.rated at 45 watts only . would that be a slouch ???

would chorus need a subwoofer more than a forte ? for regular musik listen?

.......though an improved bass is always welcome, i wouldnt go for a sub with any of these speakers ,i am of the view that a sub usually makes the sound pleasing but then it makes it sound UN-NATURAL too .....

i also think that even the heresys are better off than any reference speakers when it comes to music only,and if one is not into really low bass.......

The published bass extension is not everything, especially when the figures are as close as 32, 37, and 39. I don't know about the Chorus II, but I do know that perceived percussive bass impact can vary strangely between speakers. Many bass drums, from classical to kick drums, have a lot of their energy at between 40 and 60 Hz. So do many timpani strokes. The La Scala, Belle, and La Scala II all have a higher cut off than the speakers you mention, but can have greater bass impact, "speed," etc. than many speakers that are speced much lower. On the other hand, for non-transient deep bass they are not so hot, and probably need a sub for the infernal and ubiquitous "Bass Machine" that is used in movies today. Bass has many aspects.

I never liked my RSW 15 sub until I started bringing it in at 40 Hz (no higher!). Above that, I found that it muddied up the terrific bass impact of my mains (Klipschorns).

Very interesting point gary. Perception versus reality, speed (some may call it slam) or accuracy. Ultimately it is our own perceptions which define what we like in reproduction (double and triple entendre's not intended). The frequency response +/- 3db from the same manufacturer of 39 or 32hz does make a difference, but it is where the listener places the greatest value which decides whether the difference matters. The type of music preferred will also have a say in all this. The low notes of the piano will not need "percussive impact" yet a speaker capable of producing these without fall-off will make piano music sound better, for example.

[Me Loves Khorns]

I have just loved my Forte II's. I have had or heard most things Klipsch makes. To me, only my Jubs may beat them out.

Had I never heard the Jubs, and had started with the Forte II, I would have been perfectly happy.

dtel has an all Forte HT setup in addition to his Monster Huge Jubs. I always wondered, why mess with the Forte's when you can have the Jubs running?

Now that I have some, I completely understand why he has them both available and ready to go.

Paul

[Ski Bum]

garyrc....

my question again ......currently i am hoping to partner chorus with a quad 303 power amp.rated at 45 watts only . would that be a slouch or would that be enough for my 16w x15deep x10h feet room ???

does the watts of class A amps(usually tubes ), behave differently than those of integrated recievers or transistor amps(quad 303 for example)?

30 watts is 30 watts.... right ? whether its a tube amp producing 30 watts to run a pair of monster chorus II speakers or a loser cheap-*** prologic integrated reciever from sony delivering 30 watts too, the output should be the same . so why worry . though sound quality would wary widely,i know

Hola Gary-

I would guess that for that sized room, that 45 watt Quad amp would suffice quite nicely. My forte ii's are in a similarly sized room. Currently, I'm using a 50w/ch receiver (Yamaha rx-396), and my ears cry uncle before the amp runs out of steam.

There actually is something to the class A approach, which, to my ears at least, seems to be imaging prowess and the entrancing, almost psychedelic way they engage you, or rather how they let the music engage you. Emotional involvement with the music is almost unavoidable with class A amps. They measure anywhere from slightly worse to horrible compared to AB amps, but they sound more pure and clear (go figure). The problem is, with that approach you're stuck with either too low power for practical purposes (single ended tube designs), or outrageous cost (think Pass Labs or Musical Fidelity products here, mucho dinero). You owe it to yourself to listen to such an amplifier, if you get a chance. You just may like it. I know I do.

I actually have a couple class A tube amps (Decware se84's), and while they do sublime things when paired to my forte's they ultimately don't have the drive to get loud and rowdy, hence the Yamaha, which is entirely sufficient for my needs. Frankly, I find the Yamaha to sound just as good as some other more expensive and more powerful amps I have around the house, for example an NAD C372. You just don't need much power for Klipsch, at least for such a small room.

Good luck!

[quadklipsh]

thanks man, though the idea of yamaha vs decware se84s ,sounding the same boggles my mind[]

[Ski Bum]

thanks man, though the idea of yamaha vs decware se84s ,sounding the same boggles my mind

No, that was comparing the Yamaha to an NAD C372, at realistic volumes in my smallish (similar to yours) bedroom.

The Decware's trounce any ss amps I have, from the lowly Yamaha to the C372, at least within their limited power envelopes. Kooky, head scratching realism. They truly kick sonic butt, I just wish they were more powerful. Neither the Yamaha nor the NAD sound quite as good (although they do sound excellent). Unfortunately, the Decware amps only work as long as you keep it below ~95db or so at the couch.

The difference between the cheap 50w Yamaha and the NAD was negligible, and in my small room I didn't need the extra power. In addition, I find the variable loudness of the Yamaha to be an excellent tool to voice the squaker to my personal taste, something the NAD lacks. The Yamaha just seems a good match for my use of the fortes...the Decwares are currently powering some non-Klipsch in another system to great effect.

My (unclear) point was that you should be fine w/ the Quad. And that class A amps are fun toys.

[garyrc]

The question may be "Powerful enough for what?" [i.e., almost, but not eactly, "Loud enough for what?" ]

I) On the one hand, if I remember correctly, the Forte IIs had a sensitivity of 99 dB. Given that every increase of 3 dB in sensitivity is the equivalent to 2 x the wattage, and given that the typical sensitivity of a speaker for the home is around 90 dB, 45 watts into the Forte II would be approximately the equivalent of about 360 watts into the typical speaker. I have heard that Klipsch assumes that their speakers will be somewhere fairly close to a bass reinfrocing wall or corner (a little out, in either case), rather than way out (the way most speakers are pictured in diagrams), so you may need that kind of placement to achieve the full 99 dB sensitivity over the full bandwidth the Forte II is rated for.

II) On the other hand, Loudness is a perceptual/psychological phenomonon that is not identical with the Sound Pressure Level (SPL) measurements used to rate loudspeaker sensitivity. Ironically, distorted sound sounds louder than the SPL would indicate. The Forte II is a very low distortion loudspeaker, so watt for watt, dB for dB, it might not sound as loud as an inferior speaker playing at a lower SPL. Most of us would still prefer the Forte II over the Brand X distorting loudspeaker, though.

III) I just ran out of hands, but if you look at some of the discussions of dynamic range on the forum, it is possible to conclude that no amp and speaker combo can reproduce the entire dynamic range of some live music, if you measure very brief peaks. Some do well enough to fool the brain.

IV) There has been so much debate over whether "30 watts is 30 watts," as you put it, I won't try to settle it. Somewhere on the Klipsch forum there is a discussion of one researcher testing some relatively low priced solid state and tube amps and reportedly finding that similarly rated (for power) tube and solid state amps put out very different brief peak levels, with the tube amps putting out about 6 times the power in watts for very brief peaks. People argued this back and forth. It was pointed out that these tube peaks would have very high distortion, but that it was not harsh distortion, and that the ear wpuld not be very good at picking up that distortion for such very brief periods. I am not qualified to take a stand on these issues, I'm just reporting what I think I remember -- use "search" to find these threads.

V) My bias would be to use an amp that is rated at somewhere between the power handling capacity of the speaker, and 2 times that figure. With my Klipschorns, for instance, I use amps rated at 150 wpc (more like 120 wps RMS, if RMS power existed -- see that thread). The Klipschorns have a power handling of 100 wts, 400 wts peak. Note: Someone asked Paul W. Klipsch what power handling specs meant. He said "Not much."

[quadklipsh]

garyrc.....

i always appreciate everytime you reply to my tiny queries in detail....

ill look upto it and see what they came upto.....in that forum