Car guys- BMW Z3

[jacksonbart]

..

[jacksonbart]

,.,

[colterphoto1]

I believe the asking price is high. Blue book including the mileage and good condition is about $7k, TMV private party sale $6.3k.

I'll test drive it tomorrow for fun, just to see how it fits and how much fun it is. I don't believe I've driven any kind of performance vehicle since my 'hot rod' high school days. This could be a blast, could be a bust. We'll see.

Right now she's asking some bizarre insurance question about will I cover the difference between BLACK book and what she's asking should something happen. Ideas?

[DrWho]

For what it's worth, I was also looking at Z3's when I got my Miata. The real question is what do you want to do with the car? The Z3 is definitely cooler and more of a chick magnet, but then you're not gonna be pulling 10 second quarter miles like you could investing the same amount of money in the Miata [] Why don't you join SCCA and start doing autocross?

[oldtimer]

Miata vs z3 unmodified is no contest. Colt, she's asking too much and as for insurance if the worst happens (and it is very likely it won't) then she should get what she insured it for. Agreeing to the difference is tantamount to paying that price, which is too high. For a standard street car Dr. Who, look at a 97 mazda and a 97 bmw and tell me which has weathered time better. I always liked mazdas for their strengths, but aging gracefully is not one of them.

[jheis]

Do not, repeat DO NOT buy a car with rust. Repaired or not - rust never sleeps.

If you have to have a Z3 buy a plane ticket to CA or the Southwest & buy a rust free car. You'll be miles ahead with a road trip thrown in.

James

[colterphoto1]

Doc,I'm more about the chick magnet thing. This would be my first 'fast' car. No point in going overboard.

Ok, the key is in my mailbox. I'm going to delay picking her up (she's literally around the corner from me) until I can talk to my insurance guy. I've written down all the stuff you guys say to look at. Will have meeting with my BMW friend, show her to three other BMW entheusists, check out the local mechanic who did the rusted trunk repair, get the CarFax thingie.

Looks like price wise should be $7k or so, not $9900. Hmm maybe I'll get the bug though.

Wish me luck.

Michael

[colterphoto1]

Good news, she ran the CarFax and sent to me.

Bad news- 3 owner car, last 5 years in Indiana. Been in rear-end collision once, air bag deployed another time. Add this to the rusted out and repaired trunk, the high asking price and I don't think there is any way I should purchase this vehicle. (keep in mind that I've never in my life purchased a used auto).

Thoughts?

[colterphoto1]

I just ran the Carfax, it was in an accident in 1998. The report
indicates that the car was rear-ended, there was no structural damage
and the airbag was not deployed.

Ownership HistoryThe number of owners is estimated Owners 1-2 Owner 3 Owner 4

Year purchased 1996 2007 2008
Type of owner Personal Personal Personal
Estimated length of ownership 10 yrs. 4 mo. 11 months 2 yrs. 3 mo.
Owned in the following states/provinces Florida, Indiana Indiana Indiana
Estimated miles driven per year See Details --- ---
Last reported odometer reading 47,736 52,300 52,558
Title HistoryCARFAX guarantees the information in this section Owners 1-2 Owner 3 Owner 4

Salvage | Junk | Rebuilt | Fire | Flood | Hail | Lemon Guaranteed
No Problem Guaranteed
No Problem Guaranteed
No Problem
Not Actual Mileage | Exceeds Mechanical Limits Guaranteed
No Problem Guaranteed
No Problem Guaranteed
No Problem

GUARANTEED - None of these major title problems were reported by a
state Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). If you find that any of these
title problems were reported by a DMV and not included in this report,
CARFAX will buy this vehicle back. Register | View Terms

Additional HistoryNot all accidents / issues are reported to CARFAX Owners 1-2 Owner 3 Owner 4

Total Loss
No total loss reported to CARFAX.
No Issues Reported
No Issues Reported
No Issues Reported
Structural / Frame Damage
No structural / frame damage reported to CARFAX.
No Issues Reported
No Issues Reported
No Issues Reported
Airbag Deployment
No airbag deployment reported to CARFAX.
No Issues Reported
No Issues Reported
No Issues Reported
Odometer Rollback
No indication of an odometer rollback.
No Issues Indicated
No Issues Indicated
No Issues Indicated
Accident / Damage
Accident reported on 07/31/1998.
Accident Reported No New Issues Reported No New Issues Reported
Manufacturer Recall
Check with an authorized BMW dealer for any open recalls.
No Recalls Reported
No Recalls Reported
No Recalls Reported
Basic Warranty
Original warranty estimated to have expired. Interested in an extended warranty?
Warranty
Expired Warranty
Expired Warranty
Expired
Tell us what you know about this vehicle
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Glossary Detailed History


Owner 1
Purchased: 1996
Type: Personal
Where: Florida
Est. miles/year: 3,984/yr
Est. length owned: 12/30/96 - 4/8/05
(8 yrs. 3 mo.)



Low mileage! This owner drove less than the industry average of 15,000 miles per year. Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
12/30/1996 Levin BMW
Schererville, IN
219-922-2222
www.levinbmw.com Vehicle sold
12/30/1996 15 Florida
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
Title #71191261 Odometer reading reported
01/15/1997 Florida
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
Title #71191261 Title issued or updated
First owner reported
Registered as
personal vehicle
07/01/1998 6,000 Florida
Inspection Station
West Palm Beach, FL Passed emissions inspection
07/31/1998 Florida
Damage Report Accident reported
Involving rear impact
with another motor vehicle
09/16/1998 6,648 Florida
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Loxahatchee, FL
Title #71191261 Odometer reading reported
10/05/1998 Florida
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Loxahatchee, FL
Title #71191261 Title issued or updated
11/08/2000 Florida
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Loxahatchee, FL
Title #0071191261 Title issued or updated
12/04/2003 Florida
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Port Charlotte, FL
Title #0071191261 Registration issued or renewed
Registered as
personal vehicle
Registration updated when owner moved
the vehicle to a new location
Vehicle color noted as Blue
10/17/2004 Florida
Motor Vehicle Dept.
West Palm Beach, FL
Title #0071191261 Registration issued or renewed
Registered as
personal vehicle
Vehicle color noted as Blue



Owner 2
Purchased: 2005
Type: Personal
Where: Indiana
Est. miles/year: 6,812/yr
Est. length owned: 4/8/05 - 5/7/07
(2 years)



Low mileage! This owner drove less than the industry average of 15,000 miles per year. Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
04/08/2005 33,924 Indiana
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Wheatfield, IN
Title #05206062021 Title issued or updated
New owner reported
Loan or lien reported
07/20/2005 39,665 Levin BMW
Schererville, IN
219-864-7333
www.levinbmw.com Brake fluid flushed/changed
Oil and filter changed chassis lubricated
08/09/2005 Indiana
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Wheatfield, IN
Title #05160151046 Title issued or updated
Loan or lien reported
04/18/2007 47,736 BMW Of Schererville
Schererville, IN
219-864-7333
www.bmwinschererville.com
ww.bmwinscherervill
e.com Airbag system checked



Owner 3
Purchased: 2007
Type: Personal
Where: Indiana
Est. miles/year: ---
Est. length owned: 5/7/07 - 4/29/08
(11 months)


Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
05/07/2007 47,800 Indiana
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Avon, IN
Title #07415088081 Title issued or updated
New owner reported
04/29/2008 52,300 Online Listing Vehicle offered for sale
06/05/2008 Indiana
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Indianapolis, IN Registration issued or renewed
Vehicle color noted as Blue



Owner 4
Purchased: 2008
Type: Personal
Where: Indiana
Est. miles/year: ---
Est. length owned: 6/5/08 - present
(2 yrs. 3 mo.)


Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
06/05/2008 52,558 Indiana
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Indianapolis, IN
Title #08193114026 Title issued or updated
New owner reported
07/11/2009 Indiana
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Indianapolis, IN Registration issued or renewed
Vehicle color noted as Blue
06/14/2010 Indiana
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Indianapolis, IN Registration issued or renewed
Vehicle color noted as Blue

[Frzninvt]

Hold out for a better one and better deal. Check Auto-Trader, eBay and Craigslist. Owner service documentation is key with BMW's they need to be properly maintained or you could be dropping more $ into it to get it up to speed. The suspension components and cooling systems should be serviced every few years. I would definately opt for a manual tranny, much more fun. I bet you could find another without looking too hard, an older M3 convertible would also be quite fun just make sure anything you get has been properly maintained.

[DrWho]

Rust on a used car should be a big no go.....the other stuff isn't necessarily a huge issue, but my belief is there will always be another deal around the corner. Take the time to get what you want. It sounds like this is more of an impulse buy because it's your friend selling it? Are there other Z3's for sale in your area? At the very least, I would test drive a few other cars just to get a comparison.

[colterphoto1]

Charles, Def will be a manual tranny, that's all I've ever driven in my personal vehicles.

I don't see how/why people don't keep service records. I have every slip of paper written on my Accord and it's and Accord! A sports car I'd definitely have everything.

This is a no-go today but I'll test drive just to get the feel of it. There's a green/tan one in Chicago (eBay) that's newer and has more options, about same mileage. I'll keep an eye on that and see how that sale does.

Thanks guys. You may have just kept me from doing something really stupid.

Michael

[fini]

Excellent research, Michael. Sounds like the Z3 is your car, just not this Z3. The forum help here is amazing.

James, what do you drive? I seem to recall you mentioning it being something sporty...My cars have been 1.) a monster-sized Buick Le Sabre, 2.) a 1969 bug (nice car),a 1984 Toyota pickup (new), and a 1994 Toyota PU (used). If I got a Z3, it would be my wife's primary ride, replacing the 1998 Toyota Sienna. Quite a different driving experience, I'd imagine...

[Coytee]

Owner service documentation is key

Charles is right. I once went into a local Mercedes place (not an official dealer but it's primarily all they inventory)

Long story short....looking at a several year old 380SL (this was 10/15 years ago). Looked good drove good....blah blah blah. They touted that this was a local owner and always had the car serviced at this location.

Oh? Good...that means you have the service records, don't you? He looked a little odd as he shifted in the seat.... why, yes we do!

Good.... I'd like to see them before we go any further.

He proudly brought out a pile of papers that must have been over an inch thick. I started looking at what was done.... oil changes, new tires, new brakes... then I ran into some that looked very interesting as they were 2 or 3 pages long. They included things like timing chain/belt, radiator, PS pump.... I honestly don't remember what was really on the list but...on reviewing the list it looked like they had rebuilt the entire car.

The salesman was proud as a peacock that they had the service records and I'm sitting here thinking....geez....if this car has needed this much work done on it during it's lifetime, why would I expect those needs to suddenly disappear after I buy it?

Shortly thereafter, I bought my little Mazda Miata for a lot less money, a lot less annual gas expense, a lot less insurance expense and a LOT less maintainence expense and had a blast with it.

[Jay481985]

Besides the fact that it looks styled after an athletic shoe, test drive it. I bet it's loads of fun. BMW's are also pretty reliable mechanically.

older ones, the newer ones (2004) on up, DO NOT BUY WITHOUT A WARRANTY is the most commonly talked about reliability statement of new bmws. My friend had to lemon his car twice, only to be given a lemon but by that time the lease was up and he vowed never ever ever bmw again. Put it this way, there were soo many bmws at the shop at the time, they loaned him a toyota rav4 from 1999.

[oldtimer]

Jay, have you heard anything similar about mini's?

[jheis]

fini asked:

"James, what do you drive?"

[jheis]

Since I grew up on the east coast, I've ended up with/inherited several vehicles with rust. The last was a Toyota Pickup that I bought sight unseen from an uncle when I needed to transport my BMW motorcycle from PA to CA back in '87. When I flew back to pick it up, my Dad told me that he'd "fixed the rust." I thought "Oh Great."

Anyway, the truck spent it's twilight years in CA and never saw salt again. Kept the thing for 22 years, but the rust never stopped. The floor rusted through, the bottoms of the doors rusted through and you could see through one side of the bed and out the other. I was afraid to slam the doors too hard for fear that the whole thing would collapse into a pile of rust flakes.

Mechanical stuff you can fix. There's no way to fix rust.

James

[fini]

OK James, I'm car stupid. What is that road beast you drive??

[jheis]

Porsche 928.

That's the one with the water cooled V8 in the front. []

James