Tempted to go back from JBL L300 to La Scala - what you think?

[Croc]

Hi there,As you see in the title - I’m tempted to go back from JBL L300 to La Scala – and looking for a second opinion and info.

I’m listening mostly to 50s-60s jazz plus some blues, rock and classics.

My full systems details: http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/4657.htmlSo i used for ~4 years 1977's La Scalas and loved them very much.

the problem of weak ends was solved by pairing them to a good sub and JBL 2405 tweeters.

xover was moded to A-type and new capacitors from Bob were installed.but for last 2 years i was with L300s powered by 300b push pull amp.

eventually i said that 2 years is enough to use La Scalas at the back of the room as a table/cupboard to put ton of small things on them and it's time for them to find a new owner.but when i connected them i instantly remembered why i loved them so much:

1. explosive dynamics. L300 are good but can't much La Scalas especially not in the midrange - i guess that only hi efficiency speakers can do this

2. bass quality - La Scalas are super fast, not distorted, not colored and doesn’t sound "boxy". i never heard such a thing.

3. Huge sound

4. Single ended amp is very easy to match, not too expensive and SET sound is very special indeedwhere they lose to L300s:

1. Mid sound less detailed, “dark”, “dirty” and a bit distorted. Not a disaster – but this is where L300 excels

2. Even with JBL 2405 tweeter the treble is a bit on a hard side while L300’s treble is “gentle” (I’m not talking about roll off)

3. The cabinet vibrates – generally speaking I like a bit of woody coloration it ads – but in some cases it gets into strong resonance which is too much. Luckily it doesn’t happens very often. At least not on my kind of music.

If I could solve those problems I would let L300 in a heartbeat – and I see that La Scalas can be upgraded with a better horn, other mid drivers and possible further moded x-over.

I don’t know about B&C drivers – but I liked a timbre of those old school L300’s JBL drivers.

absolutely critical for me that they remain able to work with 2 watt SET !!!!

unfortunately alll those upgrades easily come up to 2,000$ which i can only fund by letting L300 go - which is not easy as it's good and rare and if eventually i will see that i need them back it's gona be costly [:S]

What do you think and what are my options here?Many thanks, Gennady

[JBryan]

I understand your dilemma. JBL Everests are very nice speakers but like all speaks, they have drawbacks. I'm not a fan of the tweeter and the L300 actually needs more power/current than most SET amps can offer comfortably. I'd suggest that you try a bit more power on the JBLs before you do anything drastic and given the age, replacing the caps in the crossovers and maybe even the wires should improve the sound. That said, you can easily sell the L300's and get a nice pair of used 'Scalas with $ left over to modify them. There are plenty of threads discussing ways to get the most from LS - do a search and get ideas.

Personally, I liked the L300 but preferred the L200 in my setup. Though I did notice a bit of roll off on the top of the StudioMasters, I liked the imaging a little more. I haven't spent much time in front a LS's but I think you'll give up a little bit on the top and bottom compared to the L300 but the LS offers better transients, less distortion and more speed as well, you can easily drive them with a 300b amp up to 90dB depending on your room size. Have fun

[Croc]

i'm using L300s with 300b push pull amp with ~20 watts.
i also worked for a few months Citation 2 which handles very ddificult speakers.
i also tried them with Krell.
so power options were explored.

and La Scalas i still own !!! []

i think that due to design (horn vs port loaded) the bass just can't sound the same.

also i'm suspecting that due to efficiency differences mid/treble dynamics can't be the same - correct me if i'm wrong.

i thought maybe to get Fastrac mod horn woth some better driver....

since i did like L300's mid clarity and high detail level and tweeter's fenese - what jbl/altec drivers and/or horns can be matched to La Scala keeping the whole system over 100db sensitive?

[russ69]

I'd suggest that you try a bit more power on the JBLs before you do anything drastic and given the age, replacing the caps in the crossovers and maybe even the wires should improve the sound.

I agree with JBryan, a beefer amp may be just what you need. The Krell would not be a good match, so I don't think you have really explored that option fully. I'd try a Parasound A21 or some other SS amp that is known for tube like sound. It's been a long time since I heard L300/L200s but I remember them as fine sounding loudspeakers, a little power would really perk them up.

[Marvel]

Have you replaced the caps in the L300 crossovers? Considering the age of the L300s, it would be worth doing. They are potted, but you can hot glue new ones in place. It will help the highs.

Bruce

[Croc]

is there a problem with hights in L300?

i haven't noticed it....

do you think caps refresh will mae as dynamic at mid/high as La Scala?

[Mighty Favog]

Having plenty of time in with L300's I would say the L300's may not be as in your face as the LaScalas in the mids and highs but it is to be remembered that the JBL's DO have quite a bit more bass to compliment the overall sound. With the LaScalas rolling off around 50Hz it may not seem like a big deal but after a small investment of a couple hundred dollars re-freshening the crossovers in the L300's, I think you'd be surprised what they could once do and can do once again.

[Croc]

i'm sure agree that complete lack of bass under 50 hz is a serious drawback. frankly speaking it can't be tolerated in a long run.
i solved it by pairing them with Rel Stadium sub and this worked very good.
the speed, quality, percieved lack of distorsion and "boxiness" of La Scala's bass is something that L300 just can't do.

another known weak point is the tweeter - and as i said i solved it by using JBL 2405 tweeter.

i'm probably going convert La Scalas to Altec/JBL "mutatnt" - tweeter is already there, now it's time for mid hord+driver []

[SSnyder]

Setup 2 systems

[Croc]

[]

[Audible Nectar]

Setup 2 systems

I like the way you think[]

[Croc]

Today i listened to La Scalas few more hours:

[Croc]

L300s are at the back:

[Islander]

i'm probably going convert La Scalas to Altec/JBL "mutatnt" - tweeter is already there, now it's time for mid hord+driver

Of course, you could always look into the JubScala option: La Scala woofer and bass bin, with Klipsch Pro Theater K-69 tweeter, mounted in either the K402 (very large) or K510 (not so large) horn.

The JubScala converts the La Scala from a 3-way speaker with passive crossover to a 2-way bi-amped time-aligned speaker with an active electronic crossover. It could be called either the ultimate La Scala or the junior Jubilee.

You can see a 510 JubScala in my avatar. That's the small K510 horn on top. The front baffle can also be replaced with a new one with a cutout allowing the 510 to be installed where the stock K-77 tweeter and K400 squawker fit, giving a relatively stock appearance.

Clarity is improved, distortion is lower, and sensitivity is around 105dB/W/m.

As well as the tweeters and horns, you need a second power amp, ideally the same as the one you have (the 470-480Hz crossover point means the bass amp covers the bottom 5 octaves of the audio range and the treble amp covers the top 5 octaves, so the power demands are near equal), and the crossover, typically an E-V Dx38, which is available used at good prices nowadays.

[Croc]

thx for details about JubScala !!!!

i've heard this term but didn't figured out what it means. thx again !!!

i like to keep things as simple as possible - first order xovers usually i like.
and i kinda like JBL/Altec drivers sound.

so i will have to explore avilable options []

[Guy Landau]

Croc,

Sell your La Scala to me [].

or you can try Altec 290 with 803b horns with your 2404 tweeters. It should work fine with the stock networks.

[Croc]

i hoped 511 horn would do.
but it's 1" only....

maybe Fastrac 2" horn?.....

[NOSValves]

Get rid of the Type A crossover and a good bit of your mid and upper frequency problems will disappear instantly. The Type A's voicing gets destroyed when you install modern very efficient and transparent capacitors. The detail comes through TOO MUCH.

I've tried just about every after market crossover you could name... I settled on the Super AA that is also referred to as a ALK Jr. I had it built with $ no object parts by Dean Wescott and it really performs to my liking. The thing is with these modern caps the crossover needs to be designed/voiced with there performance... The Type A was design/voiced with surplus military oil cans...very different then a modern film cap.

I've been down every road with Lascalas. The biggest single difference was going to this crossover. Then I added the ALK mid horn (wood trachorn) and an after market tweeter. But the crossover makes the entire thing come together.

[NOSValves]

Croc,

Sell your La Scala to me .

or you can try Altec 290 with 803b horns with your 2404 tweeters. It should work fine with the stock networks.

Who pays the shipping to and from Israel? []

How you been? good to see you posting.

[Croc]

this is interesting remark about xvovers.

mine actually were AA and really didn't like them - so with Guy's adwise i butchered from it diods and other crap to make it pure A which made the sound very good.

then i installed Bob's GE oil capacitors - honestly i'm haven't noticed a defference. if it's there it's small. maybe my stock caps just were in a good shape....