DIY La Scala for Center?

[HOGFAN]

OK, I'm trying to squeeze a La Scala (DIY build) into the fixed opening for my center channel. The problem I have is that the opening is not big enough for a regular La Scala. The opening is 22" wide x 28" tall x 24" deep. Could I make a La Scala top (a little narrower than stock) to put it in this space and then build the LS doghouse and position it elsewhere in the room (obviously connected to the top portion)?

I am trying to get the best center speaker for my La Scala mains, and I don't have room for another LS. Help!!!!!

Thanks,

Hogfan

[Guest Anonymous]

There is only one solution here, make your opening larger.

[HOGFAN]

I appreciate the feedback, but that is not an option. My opening for the center speaker is in a custom built entertainment center (that cost me about $2,500). I would settle for an inferior center speaker before tearing into the entertainment center. I was hoping for some great insight into a doable solution using LS components crafted to meet my space constraints. If there is absolutely no way of doing it, I will look at the standard path of picking up an Academy or a Heresy II. I am just trying to think outside the box, if you will....no pun intended.

Thanks,

Hogan

[Guest Anonymous]

I have la scala's and heresy's...the heresy's wont even come close to being able to keep up with the la scala's.

[WMcD]

If you are ready for the DIY, I think it can be done with some alterations on the LS design.

I would not suggest just putting the midrange and tweeter in the original openning and then putting the bass doghouse elsewhere. A buddy of mine is just running a K-55 and K-77 under the projection TV. As with your case, it was a matter of a custom made cabinet. And I suggested this might work well enough.

Well it almost does. But to me it sounds a bit shrill without some basshorn to provide below 400 Hz at the same location.

OTOH, I believe a bass horn a bit smaller than an LS will do the job. But we, here, still have to consider making things compact.

You may be aware of the Runt. http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/62461/610102.aspx#610102 It looks to me that it must be using a 12 inch or smaller woofer driver because the bass horn height seems to be 12 inches.

You will note that PWK reduced the height of the treble unit by putting the tweeter at the side. If I was doing this I would locate the tweeter in the mouth of the midrange. That was done with the very much larger K-5. It may be that it was used in some experimental systems using the K-400.

I've looked at whether it is possible to put the K-400 into the structure of the bass horn. Something similar was done with the EV Eliminator II. But that was a far smaller mid horn. IMHO, it is best to stick with the K-400. Therefore it is good that you have 24 inches of depth which should accomodate the lenght of the K-400 and driver.

So we have to look at a budget for height. The K-400 height needs an opening of about 6 inches (no matter where you locate he tweeter). So that has to come out of the height of the bass horn. Call it 7 or 8 inches with flanges of the K-400.

But the result is not too bad. You have potentially a frontal area of 20 inches tall or so by 22 inches wide for the mouth of the bass horn. Again you have 24 inches of depth.

I would think it would work well if you just scale down the height and width of the LS woofer cabinet. There is room for a 15 inch woofer. This will require some inventiveness. IMHO, the path of the LS just approximates an exponential expansion. Other appoximations could work nearly as well. So I wouldn't be concerned about adjusting things.

An alternative bass horn design is shown in patent which I posted as part of this thread http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/103860/1049005.aspx#1049005

That is not the patent on the bass horn -- there is another -- but the description is the same. This too could be adjusted.

WMcD

[Al Klappenberger]

I built a network for such a situation several years ago. The entire high end of the LaScala, without any bass driver at all, was mounted in the center. The network simply provided a dummy load resistor in place of the woofer. For a center, you simply don't need a woofer at all! Bass is so non-directive that the flank speakers or sub-woofer will do the job completely.

AL K.

[lotusmark]

Sounds like a perfect spot for a Cornscala. You've got 8.5 cu. ft. to work with and you only need about 6.2.

[HOGFAN]

AL,

Would I need to put the LS doghouse (base bin) in the room? I saw a thread on here from a couple of years back where a member mentioned that he has seen the LS center spit....with the top piece in the center position, but the base bin was placed elsewhere in the room. Are you saying the same thing? Or, are you saying that the base bin is not needed at all?

Thanks for your valuable input.

Hogfan

[Al Klappenberger]

I'm saying you don't need the bass bin at all! A simple load resistor on the network absorbs everything below 400 Hz to keep the center amp happy. The flank speakers will make all the bass you need.

Al k.

[HOGFAN]

I'm saying you don't need the bass bin at all! A simple load resistor on the network absorbs everything below 400 Hz to keep the center amp happy. The flank speakers will make all the bass you need.

Al k.

Al,

When you say "absorb", are you saying everything below 400 Hz would be sent to my HT sub? If so, how will the center perform on deep male vocals (maybe in the 125 Hz range)....will it be noticeable at all that it is not coming from the center speaker? I have heard before that bass is omni-directional, but for levels below 100 Hz or so....if this is true, I am afraid of how it will perform on these deep vocals...I would not want it to be noticable that such vocals are not coming from the center speaker. In the end, if your solution will perform equally to a regular LS center, I certainly want to explore this further. Thanks!

Hogfan

[Al Klappenberger]

I shouldn't have mentioned that "absorb" thing. It is relevant only to a network designer, like me. Forget I said it. The lows will be generated into your room the same way they are now, by the main speakers or the sub. Only the highs are really important to focus the center. That's how PWK got away with using a Heresy between Khorns as a center. He even had a network option for the Heresy for a while that had the highs up full. A full-range center is obviously best, that's why the Belle or Cornwall was the later preference for the center. but you don't really need the extreme lows.

Al K.

[HOGFAN]

Al,

How close would this solution bring me to the best solution.....being a regular LS? Would it be better than using an Academy? How about a Heresy II? Or, is there another option (please understand, I am really new at all of this and just trying to think of the best solution to fit my needs).....maybe using the top components of a LS (tweeter and mid-horn) and adding a couple of 8" woofers or maybe a single 15" woofer to give me an "all in one" 3-way center speaker? Again, if what you are recommending is as good as a regular LS, then I think I have found my answer. If there will a noticable difference, then maybe the Academy, Heresy II or some customed 3-way option is what I should do. Thoughts?

Again, I really appreciate your help.

Hogfan

[Marvel]

Have a look at Erik Forker's download page. He has a LaScala bass bin scaled for a ten inch woofer. You could still use the LS parts for the mid and tweeter, but the ten in bottom. Or scale it up for a twelve inch.

Or make a smaller midbass tractrix. He has lots of info on his site.

Bruce

http://www.volvotreter.de/dl-section.htm

[Islander]

I have la scala's and heresy's...the heresy's wont even come close to being able to keep up with the la scala's.

Just how loud is your music? I used a Heresy II , and later, a Heresy III, as a centre with JubScalas and found each of them to be adequate in that position, although the Belle definitely does a better job.

[billybobg]

Here's my suggestion. If the material you had the entertainment center made out of is decent plywood or particle board, use it as the top, back and sides of the lascala. At $2500, I believe it would be decent density material. You would only be about 1/2" narrower than a production lascala. Make the base bin as tall as necessary to make up for the 1/2" narrower dimension available and play with the dimension to keep the volume the same as a production. Make the base bin out of good ply or mdf and use the back and sides of the ec as the sides of the speaker. Design the motor board for the squawker and tweeter to compensate for reduced heighth. I moved my tweeter to the side, but I wasn't dealing with your limited width. Some designs have had the tweeter incorporated into the base bin. Just increase the angle of the base bin and leave a square surface at the front of the bin. I believe this is very doable. I've got a spreadsheet if you want to PM me that you could play with.

[Guest Anonymous]

I have la scala's and heresy's...the heresy's wont even come close to being able to keep up with the la scala's.

Just how loud is your music? I used a Heresy II , and later, a Heresy III, as a centre with JubScalas and found each of them to be adequate in that position, although the Belle definitely does a better job.

I just found a huge difference when i had my La Scala's as a centre, and Belles left and right.

[Guest Anonymous]

You might be able to do a Cornscala type with different box dimensions, enough to fit your space, and keeping the box volume the same. i think a modded cornscala, might be the way to go.

[billybobg]

I took a look at my speadsheet and my Google Sketch Drawing. Fitting the squawker and tweeter side by side will be tight, but they'll fit. The base bin volume is a bit tougher. The lascala base bin is about 22 1/4". Add a top and you're at 23". The squawker requires about 6 1/2" to 7". The base bin therefore has to be limited to about 20" high (mine is 16", but I had more width to work with). I would play with the square part of the base bin to equalize the volume, which would affect the folded horn somewhat. Not ideal, but I think you could live with it in a HT environment. It can be built.

Okay. I have to edit this. I did a look at my spreadsheet and put the numbers in. The base bin volume is probably not acheivable. It can be within 8%. Still, it's an alternative. .

[Olorin]

I have la scala's and heresy's...the heresy's wont even come close to being able to keep up with the la scala's.

I also have two pair of La Scalas and a Heresy center, and unless the OP has a huge room (which he might; he didn't say), the Heresy will be plenty capable of meeting the need. It only has to "keep up" to reference level at the listening postion.

[HOGFAN]

My room is 2,700 cubic feet (15x20x9). The entertainment center is along a short wall (15'). My old setup was three Quartet's across the front, which sounded very good. When I picked up the LS's, and not having the space for a dedicated 2 Ch. setup, I decided to rebuild my HT setup around the LS's. I still have a Quartet in the center, and I can certainly tell a big difference.....it just seems off. I want to get as close to another LS in the center as possible, given my dilemma. I am pretty new to most of this HT/audio/technical stuff and certainly don't have the electrical equipment/knowledge to test and study this too much. So, here is what has been proposed so far:

1) Just use a modified LS top section with a special network that would send the LF's to the mains and/or subwoofer (as I understand it).

2) Build a smaller LS....a little narrower with a shorter bass bin (maybe with a 10" woofer). I guess this would also work, as it appears the lowest vocals are at about 80 Hz.....and a regular LS bottoms out at about 53 Hz. So, building a center that gets down to 100 Hz or a little under would probably work.....at least 99.99% of the time.

3) Build something like a Cornscala Jr.....like the LS solution with a smaller LF section.

4) Go the more standard path of using either an Academy (which could be added with very little work) or a Heresy II.

If I missed any other recommendations, please let me know.

Which direction should I take? I have pretty decent woodworking skills and understand some of the basics of the speaker components; however, I have never built a speaker before. I am not afraid to try, but would certainly need some help getting it tweaked and calibrated properly. On the other hand, if using an Academy or Heresy II would work as good as anything I could build (given my space contraints), maybe I should just go the easy route.

Thoughts?

Hogfan