Inkabodpain Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I have a VSX 94 TXH pioneer elite which in the spec sheet it says it puts out 140 watts per channel . 7.1 . I am looking to get a external amp for my center and fronts . The question this time is does an external amp that puts out 150 watts per channel the same as my A/V receivers 140 watts per channel ? I know the external amp has 10 more watts . " For this question lets just say both have 150 watts per channel. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Here is a S&V bench test of your Pioneer VSX-94TXH which is rated at 140w/channel with 2 channels driven simultaneously. DOLBY DIGITAL PERFORMANCE All data were obtained from various test DVDs using 16-bit dithered test signals, which set limits on measured distorting and noise performance. Reference input level is -20 dBFS, and reference output is 1 watt into 8 ohms. Volume setting for reference level was -8. All level trims at zero, except for subwoofer-related tests, all speakers were set to "large," subwoofer on. All are worst-case figures where applicable. Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms) 1 channel driven: 178/300 W (22.5/24.8 dBW) 5 channels driven (8 ohms): 84 W* (19.2 dBW) 7 channels driven (8 ohms): 61 W* (17.9 dBW)Distortion at 1 watt (THD+N, 1 kHz) 8/4 ohms: 0.05/0.06%Noise level (A-wtd): -75.1 dBExcess noise (with sine tone) 16-bit (EN16): 0.8 dBFrequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz +0, -0.2 dB*After approx. 10 seconds of continuous drive at these levels, protection circuits activated to reduce drive by 3 dB, i.e. half power; power-cycling the unit restored full drive. MULTICHANNEL PERFORMANCE, ANALOG INPUT Reference input and output level is 200 mV; volume setting for reference output level was -4.Distortion (THD+N, 1 kHz, 8 ohms): 0.04%Noise level (A-wtd.): -84.1Frequency response: <10 Hz to 81 kHz +0, -3 dB STEREO PERFORMANCE, DIGITAL INPUT Reference level is -20 dBFS; all level trims at zero. Volume setting for reference level was -3. Output at clipping (1 kHz, 8/4 ohms, both channels driven): 158/244 W (22.0/23.9 dBW)Distortion at reference level: 0.06%Linearity error (at -90 dBFS): 0.1 dBNoise level (A-wtd): -75.2 dB with 96-kHz/24-bit signals: -82.6 dBExcess noise (with/without sine tone) 16-bit (EN16): 0.5/0.7 dB quasi-20-bit (EN20): 13.0/12.6 dBNoise modulation: 0.8 dBFrequency response: <10 Hz to 20 kHz +0, -0.2 dB with 96-kHz/24-bit signals: <10 Hz to 45 kHz +0, -1.8 dB Now here is a bench test of the Outlaw Audio 7125 rated at 125w/ch with all 7 channels driven simultaneously. Outlaw Model 7125 Amplifier Measurements Measurements All measurements were taken on the left channel except as noted. Measured power output results are to the nearest Watt. The Outlaw Model 7125's frequency response from input to the speaker out measured –0.16dB at 10Hz, -0.04dB at 20Hz, -0.24dB at 20kHz, and -1.11dB at 50kHz. The S/N (A-weighted, 2.83V into 8Ω from 10Hz-24kHz) measured –114.03dB. Gain measured 28.98dB. THD+noise at 2.83V into 8Ω measured 0.005% at 20Hz, 0.013% at 1kHz, and 0.004% at 20kHz. THD+noise at 2.83V into 4Ω measured 0.009% at 20Hz, 0.015% at 1kHz, and 0.007% at 20kHz. Driving all seven channels into 8Ω, the Outlaw delivered 140Wpc at 20Hz and 142Wpc at 1kHz (to the nearest watt) before clipping (1% THD+noise). The 12-amp main power fuse failed during the 20Hz test and was replaced by a 15-amp fuse (not recommended or necessary for normal operation) for the remainder of the tests. Into 4Ω, all channels driven, the amp clipped at 205Wpc at 20Hz and 225Wpc at 1kHz. With two channels operating at 1kHz, the Outlaw clipped at 189Wpc into 8Ω and 269Wpc into 4Ω.—TJN Even though the Pioneer's test results were pretty good for a receiver, as you can see the power limiting circuitry kicks in and lowers the output to 61w/channel with 7 channels driven simultaneously. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkabodpain Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Im surprised that running the 7 channels it drops that much ,. So when I'm watching a movie with master volume at 40 I'm only hearing about 61 watts . But if I have an externat amp thats rated at 150 watts a channel I will be hearing 150 watts constent. I'm new at this so please bare with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Im surprised that running the 7 channels it drops that much Don't be that discouraged. Power reducing circuitry in the receiver are designed to kick in before damage occurs to receiver or speakers. Kind of like a rev limiter on your car that protects from blowing up your engine. So when I'm watching a movie with master volume at 40 I'm only hearing about 61 watts . Believe it or not, during a movie at moderate levels with the loud bombs going off and car crashes, your receiver or amp is probably only using about 20 to 25 watts max(peaks). Remember, a typical Klipsch tower speaker will deliver 95dB's with 1 watt at a little over 3 feet. You can do the math for your listening/viewing position. But if I have an externat amp thats rated at 150 watts a channel I will be hearing 150 watts constent. I'm new at this so please bare with me 150 watts continuous would be unbearable and damage your hearing and probably blow a tweeter or woofer. I'm new at this so please bare with me I was new at this not so long ago but have learned a ton on this forum and research and by getting advice. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkabodpain Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 So a external amp will make my system sound better . without having to crank the volume as much. What would sound good at pioneer master volume 40 would sound the same at master volume 50 with external amp. Does that make any sense . Like I said I'm new. Thank you so much for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 So a external amp will make my system sound better . without having to crank the volume as much. In my opinion, the largest benefit I realized when I added an external amp was the detail and clearity at lower volumes. The punch and seperation and of course headroom were all better with an amp. I also new that if I did want to crank it up, I would have no worries at all about my speakers clipping(distortion). Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 If you want to keep a single box, check out the Pioneer Elite SC-37. Surely not a slouch and doesn't drop near as much as other receivers. Hometheater Magazine measurements: Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:0.1% distortion at 135.7 watts1% distortion at 171.9 watts Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:0.1% distortion at 125.4 watts1% distortion at 164.7 watts Analog frequency response in Pure Direct mode:–0.06 dB at 10 Hz–0.01 dB at 20 Hz+0.48 dB at 20 kHz–1.51 dB at 50 kHz Analog frequency response with stereo signal processing:–1.34 dB at 10 Hz–0.39 dB at 20 Hz+0.46 dB at 20 kHz–2.26 dB at 50 kHz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 In my opinion, the largest benefit I realized when I added an external amp was the detail and clarity at lower volumes. The punch and separation and of course headroom were all better with an amp. I also new that if I did want to crank it up, I would have no worries at all about my speakers clipping(distortion). Bill [Y] I totally agree with that and my old Carver amps rated lower than my HT Onkyo sound better and have more headroom so numbers aren't necessarily the tell all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 The key -- is the added expense going to yeild much better results. Depending on the amplifier, it can be from an ho-hum upgrade to WOW!! Depends on the equipment. If you are buying used and it is a quality 100+ watt per channel, it will likely blow away the 94. Remember this blow away may not be substantial since it will be nothing like switching speakers. Amplifiers are more subtle. As already stated, the power numbers aren't as much of a deciding factor as the general amplifier quality is with Klipsch speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkabodpain Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 I believe what my friend will be selling me if I heard him correctly was either a B&K or maybe it was a H&K 150 watt 5 channel external amp , it maybe 200 watts per channel not 100% sure yet he is out of town. What do you think major or minor improvement to HT if I decide to purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 believe what my friend will be selling me if I heard him correctly was either a B&K or maybe it was a H&K 150 watt 5 channel external amp , it maybe 200 watts per channel not 100% sure yet he is out of town. I think H&K(Heckler & Koch) is a gun manufacturer. B&K is probably it. Whether the amp is 150w/ch or 200w/ch, you should notice a discernable difference in sound quality. IMO. What do you think major or minor improvement to HT if I decide to purchase. Headroom, detail, clearer dialog, better impact of effects, just to name a few. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xki Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 2 cents thrown in: A great amp can last longer than 3 generations of preamp/processors. And that's in addition to the clarity, voicing, headroom, and accurate reporduction advantages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxEvo8 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 An amp will give you the sound that you crave with very little effort on the equipment. As others have said, the headroom and just the effortless sound that you get from an external amp is amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfelliot Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Check out a hell of a close out buy: http://emotiva.com/upa7.shtm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xki Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Just pulled the trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHASLS2 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Looks like a good deal. How would that hook up with my Pioneer 1120k receiver and RF7's? I am guessing the i used the pre outs from my receiver to the amp, and the amp to the speakers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xki Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted February 1, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 1, 2011 Looks like a good deal. Mark has one in the Garage Sale here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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